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The huge Trolls thread - Page 27

post #521 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanHippie View Post

I've been thinking about it for a few days and I'm confused about the mamas that made TWWS.  What drew you to MDC in the first place?  Since you've pledged your allegiance to living mainstream, what was the draw to this place?  There are plenty of mainstream parenting sites on the net that are more popular.  I guess I just don't see the point of coming here and finding things so "disturbing" that you have to leave and make fun of everyone here.  It just screams pathetic to me.

 

I can't find a way to delete my account I started over there.  I'm not interested in listening to mainstreamers drone on and on about how awesome vaccines are.  eyesroll.gif 



If you're not interested, then don't go there.  It's not terribly hard.

 

And if you think that TWWS is mainstream... LOL, I think maybe you should go spend some time on an actual mainstream board!

post #522 of 767


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey693 View Post

They can read without registering.  There's people there who share their usernames and passwords with others so only one person has to register, but way more can read.


 

That was an offer made after this thread was locked and people thought it would be deleted by the next morning, as has so often happened.  A few people offered their UN's so people who don't have TAO access could come read what was being said about them.  I don't think anyone actually did it.  But even if they did... several people in this thread have said that they think anyone who is talked about at TWWS ought to be invited to come see... so this just seemed like the same thing. 


 

 

post #523 of 767

 

Quote:
I am stunned that anyone would have time to set up a whole forum just for moaning about another forum!  I am also shocked they would call themselves "trolls with wooden spoons" - when i thought trolling was a generally frowned upon thing?  No?  And stirring also, not a hugely admirable pasttime?  Or is it?

 

On the one hand, the name Trolls With Wooden Spoons ostensibly refers to a thread here a MDC.  I can't find the link, sorry, I don't remember the story precisely.  Basically, a mama here was sharing her sincere belief in trolls, the magical creatures of yore.  Some how wooden spoons were part of the explanation.  My signature, below, is kind of an organic, free-flowing response to that one mama's post. 

 

On the other hand, TWWS mamas, you CANNOT ignore that on Teh Net, trolls are nasty, obnoxious humans who like to lie, make things up, stir up trouble simply for the sake of making trouble.

 

You CANNOT deny that regardless of the original thread's literal use of the term 'troll', the mythical being,  the forum title puns rather cleverly and poetically with the modern, internet meaning of the term 'troll'. 

 

The title TWWS is very clever and has meaning on a couple levels.  A person would have to be disingenuous to pretend otherwise. 

 

I like a lot of what's said over at that site. Even the thread about me! LOL!  Too bad I didn't discover it back when I was still smarting from having been swatted on the nose several times here at MDC.  But there is a lot of hostile gossip over there, and I think people at TWWS are too quick to get righteously indignant and jump to conclusions about any one MDC mama's motivation.

 

 

Edited for clarity.

post #524 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

 

 

On the one hand, the name Trolls With Wooden Spoons ostensibly refers to a thread here a MDC.  I can't find the link, sorry, I don't remember the story precisely.  Basically, a mama here was sharing her sincere belief in trolls, the magical creatures of yore.  Some how wooden spoons were part of the explanation.  My signature, below, is kind of an organic, free-flowing response to that one mama's post. 

 

On the other hand, TWWS mamas, you CANNOT pretend that on Teh Net, trolls are nasty, obnoxious humans who like to lie, make things up, stir up trouble simply for the sake of making trouble.

 

You CANNOT deny that regardless of the original thread's literal use of the term 'troll', the mythical being,  the forum title puns rather cleverly and poetically with the modern, internet meaning of the term 'troll'. 

 

The title TWWS is very clever and has meaning on a couple levels.  A person would have to be disingenuous to pretend otherwise. 

 

I like a lot of what's said over at that site. Even the thread about me! LOL!  Too bad I didn't discover it back when I was still smarting from having been swatted on the nose several times here at MDC.  But there is a lot of hostile gossip over there, and I think people at TWWS are too quick to get righteously indignant and jump to conclusions about any one MDC mama's motivation.

 


Oh RIIIIGHHHT!  That totally makes more sense!  (i have anthroposophic friends who believe in trolls in the household gods sense).

 

But still, surely most people, not knowing that reference, will read it as i initially did?

 

post #525 of 767

The MDC section is a fairly small part of the board at this point - recent events have it jumping, but it really dwindled with the slowing down of MDC, and there is a bunch of other sections that are consistently active.

 

To me, it's my mommy board, and it's not mainstream, but it's also not about just reflexively doing the opposite of "mainstream," which is not terribly different when you get right down to it. One of the reasons I couldn't feel at home on MDC was being not-mainstream seems generally to be prized over figuring out what the actual best thing to do would be. Early in my time here (I joined when I got pregnant in 2008) I read a thread in which the OP was an impassioned ode to just doing the opposite of whatever you're told to do. Just that, if you do the opposite of what the government or the media or your parents tell you, you will always be right, 100% of the time, on any subject. And then there were several pages of posts about how great that was. Now probably I wasn't the only one who read that and couldn't think of a non-UAV way to say "Gently, mama, have you ever considered thinking?" But if that's what gets on the board to the exclusion of anything else, than that's the dominant culture - that, and endless complaints about how mainstream people just do what they're told without thinking. On trolls you can actually discuss whether the mainstream or the alternative answer (or something in between) is the best one for the situation.

post #526 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post


Oh RIIIIGHHHT!  That totally makes more sense!  (i have anthroposophic friends who believe in trolls in the household gods sense).

 

But still, surely most people, not knowing that reference, will read it as i initially did?

 


 

Yes, absolutely.  Your conclusion is completely logical.  And I think it's ridiculous, meaning deserving of ridicule, for TWWS mamas to get angrily defensive if baffled MDC mamas are more than a little put off by the Troll title. 

 

I hadn't even thought of the stirring up trouble reference to the spoon idea till you mentioned it.  That it's a wooden spoon makes it domestically crunchy and even more clever! LOL!

post #527 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post




 

Yes, absolutely.  Your conclusion is completely logical.  And I think it's ridiculous, meaning deserving of ridicule, for TWWS mamas to get angrily defensive if baffled MDC mamas are more than a little put off by the Troll title. 

 

I hadn't even thought of the stirring up trouble reference to the spoon idea till you mentioned it.  That it's a wooden spoon makes it domestically crunchy and even more clever! LOL!

 

Totally!  And i also did not get why anyone would go join the place based on that title, like joining a forum called "shoplifters with replica guns" or "stalkers with nightvision goggles" - i mean, WHY would you want to be a part of it?  I do get now that the reason some are is because they knew about the other thread about trolls.  But still.  There's an increasing chance everytime i post here that someone will post about me there, so i'd still rather skip it.

 

I actually used to get irritated by the wrist slapping the mods did here, i too have had an infraction for basically agreeing that someone who gave a 5yo girl with SN's a hard time for having a nappy on was indeed a UAV (made the mistake of not using the "code" word "UAV").  But equally since the moderation went south and the Mothering id began posting threads encouraging racism, homophobia and aggression the lack of kindness and humility around MDC has been breath-taking!
 

 

post #528 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post

 

I actually used to get irritated by the wrist slapping the mods did here, i too have had an infraction for basically agreeing that someone who gave a 5yo girl with SN's a hard time for having a nappy on was indeed a UAV (made the mistake of not using the "code" word "UAV").  But equally since the moderation went south and the Mothering id began posting threads encouraging racism, homophobia and aggression the lack of kindness and humility around MDC has been breath-taking!
 

 


MDC definitely needs to find a happy medium.  There has to be something in between moderating everything that isn't Stepford Crunch, and actively ENCOURAGING racism and homophobia.  The race baiting question on Facebook was really beyond the pale.

 

post #529 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post





I tend to doubt it.  We have a small community there that we like a lot, warts and all.  We will argue with one another for 20 pages about the relative merits of canned vs dried beans and it might get really ugly (true story! :lol ) but at the end of the day, we generally like each other and try to help each other out when things get rough.  I do think that possibly if this new UA proves to be what it is advertised as there may be fewer spin off boards in the future.  Only time will tell.

I need that thread...I'm always wondering which is better.LOL  Who knew that there would be a heated, 20 page thread about it in cyberspace?
 

 

post #530 of 767


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post




 

Yes, absolutely.  Your conclusion is completely logical.  And I think it's ridiculous, meaning deserving of ridicule, for TWWS mamas to get angrily defensive if baffled MDC mamas are more than a little put off by the Troll title. 

 

I hadn't even thought of the stirring up trouble reference to the spoon idea till you mentioned it.  That it's a wooden spoon makes it domestically crunchy and even more clever! LOL!

I hadn't noticed anyone getting angry or particularly defensive about it.  Correcting a misconception, I have seen, but not anger.  Maybe I missed it?  Can you direct me?  (When I read on my phone I find that sometimes when I log on at my computer I skip the bottom half of the last page I was on... annoying!)
 

 

post #531 of 767

 

Quote:

What drew you to MDC in the first place?

I think most of us bought into the ideals when we first registered. Some may still go with it, others may not.

 

 

Quote:

TWWS mamas, in light of the new, simpler User Agreement and the lighter touch that the Mods are taking, do you think the need for the TWWS will disappear?

No, the need won't disappear.

 

 

Quote:

A woman posted her heart breaking story on MDC and, AGAIN, was responded to snidely. Twice now it happened to this poster. It was typical of the passive-aggressive behavior of many here, particularly someone who will not be named

Honestly, it doesn't bother me like it use to. It just gives me really great stuff to write about!

post #532 of 767

Are we still not allowed to "reference other threads?"

 

The name is inspired by Zoebird.  Heh.  That thread is still here.

post #533 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post

I guess I can see why that might look like I am descending on MDC to shout out the crunch but really I use the MDC Therapy forum as an interesting MDC thread RSS reader.

 

 




I kind of like this idea... sounds like this could be a great time-saver as a mod. Much easier than wading through reported posts. Hmmm... and you have sex threads, you say?

As far as the posters you mentioned - I don't recall those specific situations but sure, why not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post



I get that, and I know this is a natural family living board, but the infraction I had was simply for asking, "can't we have a balanced discussion?" I was new to the vax forum, I didn't know that no, we couldn't. I could understand a warning, but after several years of being a member that was the first time I got discipline points. A simple "no, this is not the place" should have sufficed.

 

I know the moderation is supposed to have lightened up, you'll have to forgive me that I didn't instantly drop my guard and left TWWS and embraced being back here.
 

 




I don't want to discuss your personal moderation situation on the boards, but since you brought it up here I wanted to at least address what you said. We have pretty good records of infractions going back for many years now, and I didn't find any on your account for saying the above. I'm wondering if there was some confusion over what you were actually alerted for at some point, perhaps? It sounds like some of our communication was unclear, and I apologize for that and I'd be happy to discuss it further with you via private message, but I don't want to leave other members with the impression that we would or ever had alerted members for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mommato5 View Post

I rarely post here anymore because of issues here. I do go to twws. Here, I am irritated with the misinformation and dangerous practices that are encouraged. My child died because of a negligent CPM.




I'm very sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry that you didn't feel supported here afterwards. That makes me sad.

I hope that everyone - here, at TWWS, in general - believes that the health and well-being of the mother and the baby are the first priority in childbirth. We may have different thoughts about how to ensure that, but I hope people remain open to information about risks of all kind and are able to weight that carefully.


I'm sorry, but the idea that the vax forum is not (dunno if it still is, but whatever) heavily moderated to favor one viewpoint is patently ludicrous.  I can think of several people who got banned for posting calm, rational discussions once too often.  I never got banned but I got enough mod spanks that I finally stopped posting there at all, even though it's an issue I care a lot about.  There's really no point in being banned in a vacuum.  I'm sure you have good intentions here and maybe YOU were not the vax mod over the past five or so years, but I don't think it's possible to be a member of this site and not be aware of the heavy moderation and deleting of threads.  

post #534 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post





I'm sorry, but the idea that the vax forum is not (dunno if it still is, but whatever) heavily moderated to favor one viewpoint is patently ludicrous.  

Not true.

http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/vaccination-forum
Quote:
We embrace all parents, regardless of their vaccination choice. We uphold the Vaccinations forum as a place where they can come and discuss all aspects of all vaccinations, and find support in their desire to make an informed decision to not vaccinate, to vaccinate, to selectively vaccinate, or to delay vaccinations. We would like all members to understand that this forum is not an anti-vax forum but rather is a forum to discuss issues and concerns so that parents can make an informed decision. We are not, however, interested in hosting discussions advocating for mandatory vaccination.
Yes, we will remove threads that advocate mandatory vaccination because that leaves no room for discussion and informed decision-making. We also remove posts that violate subforum guidelines or move them to the main Vax forum, else there would be no reason for S&Dvax and INV subfora in the first place. But folks who vax are welcome to post within forum guidelines and have even been known to mod the vax forum. thumb.gif
post #535 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

TWWS mamas, in light of the new, simpler User Agreement and the lighter touch that the Mods are taking, do you think the need for the TWWS will disappear? 

 

 


No, and here's why, for me:

First of all, the redesigned MDC is incredibly difficult and irritating to read and wade through - and I'm talking the look, not the content. TWWS has an attractive, simple design that's easy to read.

Second, sure the UA is relaxed now. But who says it won't clamp down again? How can I know that it won't revert to the way it was when I got an alert for saying that anyone who has read threads about Facebook here at MDC knows that FB is often associated with a lot of immature drama? (For real.)

Third, when the moderation got so draconian here, scads of intelligent, funny women departed. These were the people whose wit and smarts made MDC so enjoyable for me back in the day, and whose departure left such a big void. When I learned about TWWS a year or so back, I was delighted to discover that most of those women were there now. So why would I leave a thriving community where crunchy values co-exist happily with more mainstream ones, populated by smart, hilarious women, where people are genuinely supportive, intelligent discussion is valued and I can get the answer to anything I would ask here - plus lurk on sex discussions?

The bottom line is, I got so disillusioned and disappointed with MDC that it's hard to imagine ever again wanting to participate here the way I used to. Not when there's such a good alternative. That and the re-design, whose negative impact cannot be overstated.
post #536 of 767

Based on the moderating of the forum, at least in the recent past, "mandatory  vaccination" is being defined as vaccinating at all and/or thinking it's a good idea.

post #537 of 767

This thread has been interesting, at least in places. I'm not sure why I waded through it all, but I'm glad to at least find out where so many people disappeared to. We lost a lot of posters in a relatively short time!

 

My own interest in MDC has been dropping for a while, but I'm not going anywhere else, because I'm trying to cut back on my online time, in general. :)

post #538 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post


The bottom line is, I got so disillusioned and disappointed with MDC that it's hard to imagine ever again wanting to participate here the way I used to. Not when there's such a good alternative. That and the re-design, whose negative impact cannot be overstated.


So I have seen this said over and over by the same people.  

Why the hell are you here then?

 

If this place is SO bad and you have such an awesome place to go to now, be it TWWS or someplace else,  GO.  Carry on!  Leave and be happy!  Why keep coming here and drag this freaking thread on for 27 freaking pages?

 

Gosh, I would think more of you would need time to mother your children/work/take care of your home/own self  instead of fighting about what makes one place on the web superior to another.

post #539 of 767


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post

I guess I can see why that might look like I am descending on MDC to shout out the crunch but really I use the MDC Therapy forum as an interesting MDC thread RSS reader.

 

 




I kind of like this idea... sounds like this could be a great time-saver as a mod. Much easier than wading through reported posts. Hmmm... and you have sex threads, you say?

As far as the posters you mentioned - I don't recall those specific situations but sure, why not?

 

 

Not just sex threads, a whole sex subforum. ;) Segregated to keep the rest of everything mostly SFW/K. Except stuff in spoiler tags. Those are sometimes NSFW/K but you would know that from context.

 

See, my big thing about the over-moderation was always the 'cannot reference other threads' because it protected those posters who hate one or all of their kids. Or whose partners abuse their kids. That rule is wonderful for abusers. They like not having their past misdeeds being linked because while one act might be excused, having many acts paints a whole picture. The coal for Christmas thread, for example. A (no longer active) poster asked the day after Christmas if children ever deserve to only receive coal for Christmas. A bunch of posters respond telling heartbreaking stories of when it happened to them and how much it hurt. The mom comes back and says how frustrated she is with her oldest DD's behavior and how she really deserves it. Awfully sad. Except, if you go back through her post history, she has been talking for a relatively long time about how she doesnt like her DD. She blames non-kid things on her (scapegoat) and has simultaneous unreasonable expectations and completely withdraws from the relationship.

 

The problem with the old UA was that you could never paint that complete picture. Really, that is hard to do on a message board, but there are some times when pointing out a history of behavior is warranted and necessary. It is also kind of odd, coming from an AP perspective, because (to me) AP is about a lot of small acts that build into a good relationship.

post #540 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post



I need that thread...I'm always wondering which is better.LOL  Who knew that there would be a heated, 20 page thread about it in cyberspace?
 

 



Dried beans, hands down.

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