Dental Crisis in 15 month old - PLEASE HELP

[BreezyMommy]

Hi Mamas....I am at a loss here and I don't know where to turn.  I just stumbled upon this community and hope I can get some help/support.

I have a beautiful little girl who will be 15 months in two days.  Over the last week or so, I've noticed a chalky white color on her front four teeth, up by her gumline.  I was able to actually touch it, and it's raised and hard.  My instinct told me to get her it looked at so I took her to a pediatric dentist (the highest rated one I could find in my area) yesterday and upon examining her he said those white marks are actually decay from the back of her teeth that is making its way around to the front.  I was able to see the decay in the back - light brown circular spots, up by her gumline.  Not exactly faint, but not dark.

To give a little background, she is breastfed (night-nursing) and has a diet that consists mainly of organic fruits and veggies.  She does have cheese on occasion (organic, hormone-free) but no cow's milk at all other than that.  We've haven't been excellent at brushing, but we've been able to get in at least one brushing a day since she's had teeth come in.  We don't use fluoride toothpaste, water or drops.

Needless to say, I am horrified.  Absolutely, positively HORRIFIED. 

Yesterday was a bit of a whirlwind, but by the time we left the dentist's office she was scheduled to be put out under general anesthesia at a hospital on the 17th of June so they can cap all four of her front teeth. 

I am in a daze right now.  My concern is that an actual x-ray wasn't taken to determine if the decay warrants capping of her teeth, and I hate the thought of putting my baby through this without actually being 100% sure that this is decay.  Then again, I'm no dentist and he sees this all day long. 

I have already reached out to my family dentist who treats my parents and myself (I've been going to him since childhood) to get a second opinion before I go through with the procedure.  And I couldn't sleep last night, so in between my crying spells I was frantically trying to find alternatives.

I think I'll feel better once I get a second opinion.  I also want to try reversing the damage (if possible)...I'm all for holistic, natural remedies.  I found you ladies for a reason, I just know it.  Does anyone have any experience or insight to share?  I am seeing information on cod liver oil and butter oil, changing of the diet (for both her and I), etc but have yet to find actual specifics.  Myabe I'm just not looking hard enought, I've been up all night and am seeing double of everything at this point.  I will do/buy anything, but time is of the essence right now so I really don't want to order anything online.  I have some great natural food stores in my area (Henry's, a Natural Foods Co-op, etc.) My heart is aching right now, I feel like such a failure.  Please, if any of you can help, I am open to advice and guidance.  Thank you!

[hildare]

this happened to a friend not too long ago.  i don't have advice, just -- it's not your fault, mama.  it really isn't. 

[dreamchimes4]

hi :) I don't have personal experience with this, but I remembered reading on one of my favorite blogs about this issue. This mama stopped her DD's tooth decay at home with mostly bone broths and other diet changes. She explains more in this entry:

http://lusaorganics.typepad.com/clean/2010/02/natural-toothpaste-tutorial.html

Her DD still ended up with caps because the damage that was done couldn't be reversed, but they prevented any more from happening. She also writes:

"Heres how we did it (and her decay stopped within one month of starting what I describe below. We did have caps done because the decay was sever before we figured it out and we werent willing to have her lose her teeth while we figured it out).

There is an amazing thread on Motherings Community Pages:http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=399989 It is an exhaustingly long read, but so worth the nights you will spend working your way through it. That was our jumping off point. What most of my research pointed to was a vitamin D deficiency, something that is amazingly common. Also, Canada just released a study last month (this month?) confirming this. Mothers with low vitamin D levels had babes with decay.

I should do a tooth care post sometime, but to get you by here is our basic framework:

1. Eat primarily traditional foods, including grass fed raw milk, limited refined foods, limited dried fruit. Focus on whole foods, meats, broth, veggies, live food.

2. Make bone broth and consume (ideally daily) at least 4 times per week (easy to do when you cook your grains and beans in it)
3. Brush without toothpaste! (Gylcerin in toothpaste impedes the ability of teeth to remineralize) We brush with homemade toothpaste that is something like this (http://www.passionatehomemaking.com/2008/08/going-fluoride-free.html) or homemade tooth powder (without abrasives like baking soda).

The two points that follow are key...
4. Supplement with Vitamin D (2500 IU) and Vitamin A (25,000 IU) daily. We do this in the ideal form of High Vitamin Cod Liver Oil (http://www.greenpasture.org/community/). Expensive, but worth it!

5. Suppliment with Butter Oil (Also from Green Pasture), 1/2 tsp/day

Let me know if I can help more. There is a great book I recommend as well. Thought I have only read excerpts, I am about to purchase it to read completely. It seems right on track. http://www.curetoothdecay.com/"

Found all that here: http://lusaorganics.typepad.com/clean/2009/11/raw-granola-recipe.html?cid=6a010535f3a090970c0120a6d8c14e970b#comment-6a010535f3a090970c0120a6d8c14e970b

hope this helps :)

[mkksmom]

Definitely not your fault. You might find some helpful info here:

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/list/308/dental

Wish I could help more, but you're right to look at all of the options before deciding.

[lookatreestar]

try to calm down... i personally wouldn't have scheduled an appointment without a second opinion but that's just me. this isn't your fault and even if baby teeth aren't doing well remember you can still improve things to the point where the adult teeth come in healthy.

our starting place was fermented cod liver oil with high vitamin butter oil.

[Sylvansmom]

I'm sorry to hear of this. I had the same problem with my daugher about the same age. She was an ardent night nurser. We were in denial that she had decay. From the time of diagnosis to the time when she had the cavities filled (a span of 3 months sue to lack of availability in hospital surgery) the cavities grew from 6 to nine.  I found no way to reverse the damage--I also looked into holistic methods. But I wish I had started the practices I outline below sooner.

I learned a lot in my dismay at the situation.  Certainly I had to stop night nursing, which turned out ok because she actually seemed ready--she had been nursing in her sleep every hour and a half and it occupied my entire evenings. However, I also learned I could nurse her once in the early AM and brush her teeth with water and she wasn't bothered at all. She would go back to sleep easily.

Our dentist told us NO fruit juice whatsoever. This was a shock to us. We hadn't been great about brushing after juice. To replace the Vitamin C she lost from orange juice, I give her Rosehip tea--it has even more Vitamin C than oranges.  Also our dentist said NO dried fruit. It sticks to enamel.

We brush her teeth about 8 times a day.  It may seem excessive but I don't want her to ever have to have anasthesia again.

I also learned that some kids may be more with weak enamel, making them more susceptible to cavities.  Also, sharing forks or toothbrushes introduces a bacteria into their mouths that creates the decay. If you've ever had a cavity and shared a fork with your daughter, you've given her that bacteria. I had no idea.

It's been a year now, and she has had only good checkups since then.  And I do still breastfeed her.

Good luck

[devasareen]

Hi, this brings up concern for my little one! She will be 15 months in a couple weeks and we have NEVER brushed her teeth!! We breast fed exclusively for 8 months and continue to night nurse and she eats ALOT of organic fruit, very little raw sheeps dairy and lots of smoothies and coconut juice (= lots of sugars). I will be brushing from now on!!

[hildare]

popping back in to say that you don't necessarily have to night wean.  there is lots of evidence that it doesn't contribute to the problem.  kellymom has an article about that issue, here : http://www.kellymom.com/bf/older-baby/tooth-decay.html 

but in all honesty, that's a bit of a hot topic.  you can find info and studies showing the opposite as well, though the current research supports that night breastfeeding is ok (from breast not a cup/bottle).

[ZakareyasMama]

I know the panic you are feeling. DS just had general anesthesia for an MRI. The worst part was that he couldn't have breastmilk for 5 hours beforehand. If you do end up going that route I can give you more details, but in the end everything was fine. He was smiling and alert within an hour of the drugs being stopped. We did not get a second opinion mainly bc the hospital we were going to is considered the best in the area and our situation was a bit different. I think it would make you feel much better to go get a second opinion from another dentist. Let the first dentist know you would like to take a copy of her x-rays for a second opinion. They should understand. 

My SIL is a pediatric dentist and one thing she told me is that if a baby's family/caregivers have any unfilled cavities they can pass the bacteria to the child through kissing the face and hands. So that could also be a source of the decay. Sorry, I don't know about natural remedies for tooth decay.

[ZakareyasMama]

nak

I asked my dentist SIL about treating decay like this. For what it's worth, she said that depending of course on the amount of decay (assuming it's a lot) that's generally the best way to treat it. She's a new mom too and she said she would do this for her own daughter if it was needed. Let us know how it goes!

[Springshowers]

I've been going through the same thing since the middle of February. The white lines on two teeth have turned brown and the tips of the teeth are being eaten by cavities. One tooth is gone to the gumline.. all this since we noticed two teeth looking a little funny (they were yellow and rough.. it appeared they had lost their enamel)... it's shocking how fast it can progress.

We've made many changes, but not being willing to let her loose all these teeth she is having one pulled and 5 others filled under GA on the 16th. I wish we could have got her in sooner because we could have saved the tooth that is gone. In Canada though they really don't like doing GA teeth surgery on anyone less than 18 months old.

We have made lots of diet/lifestyle changes though which I feel will help prevent more decay. I hope anyhow.

There is a very active Yahoo group called veryyoungkidsteeth that is worth joining.. it's given me lots of support and resources and is quite active.

Oh and on the breastmilk.. from what I have read if teeth are clean breastmilk causes no more decay than water.. however if there are food particles left on the teeth it actually speeds decay. So clean teeth before bed for night time feedings is important.

Also look into Cell Salts.. a few people here have reported healing cavities doing nothing more than adding these. My little one loves them as they are in a lactose pill base and taste sweet. There are threads on them in the dental forum here.

[BreezyMommy]

Thank you all....the last few days have been a whirlwind of emotions.

I know this sounds crazy...and maybe I am....maybe I'm seeing what I want to see...but I'm seeing an improvement on her teeth!  I have changed her diet completely, and while it was super healthy before it is amazingly healthy now.  I'm going broke buying it, but I don't care.  The brown on the tongue-side of her teeth is fading to a yellow-ish color and the white lines on the front of her teeth are shrinking.  Since an x-ray hasn't been taken yet (which I will most certainly demand before any procedure is done) could it be possible that this was just staining?  Or decay in the very, very beginning?  

Xylitol has become our best friend.  And brushing....we are brushing after every single meal, snack and nursing session.  Along with before bed, immediately after naps, and first thing in the morning.  I have lost count how many times we are brushing a day but I suspect it's around 15 times.  

I am desperately trying to find pascalite clay in my area - I might have to order online if I don't find any by the end of today.  I'm going to try cell salts as well.

And then the night nursing...ladies, she LOVES her milkies through the night.  My heart hurts at the thought of taking that away.  So I'm making sure her mouth is completely clean before bed, and I have a bottle of this xylitol gel stuff on my nightstand.  I'm actually coating my nipple with it before she latches on at night.  Ridiculous?  Yes.  But I had to find a compromise.  She doesn't really "nurse" nurse in the middle of the night, she mainly just comfort sucks so the good thing is the xylitol-covered nipple is really sitting on the back of those front teeth for a good time.

Praying for a miracle....her dad has active cavities in his mouth right now, and he doesn't have insurance but I've convinced him to go to a low-cost dental clinic to get a cleaning and fillings.  His appointment is Friday...so we're making progress in everyone's mouth, I hope.

Thank you all for the support.  This is just heartbreaking.  But I feel a little better knowing that I am looking at every possible option out there, every available alternative.  I know that the end result might be the capping of those four teeth....but I will do everything I can to save the rest of her teeth from the same fate.  And if I can SEE a visual improvement already from the naked eye, then I might have a little more time to try these options than what I previously thought.

[MommaBirdie]

Originally Posted by BreezyMommy 

Thank you all....the last few days have been a whirlwind of emotions.

I know this sounds crazy...and maybe I am....maybe I'm seeing what I want to see...but I'm seeing an improvement on her teeth!  I have changed her diet completely, and while it was super healthy before it is amazingly healthy now.  I'm going broke buying it, but I don't care.  The brown on the tongue-side of her teeth is fading to a yellow-ish color and the white lines on the front of her teeth are shrinking.  Since an x-ray hasn't been taken yet (which I will most certainly demand before any procedure is done) could it be possible that this was just staining?  Or decay in the very, very beginning?  

Xylitol has become our best friend.  And brushing....we are brushing after every single meal, snack and nursing session.  Along with before bed, immediately after naps, and first thing in the morning.  I have lost count how many times we are brushing a day but I suspect it's around 15 times.  

I am desperately trying to find pascalite clay in my area - I might have to order online if I don't find any by the end of today.  I'm going to try cell salts as well.

And then the night nursing...ladies, she LOVES her milkies through the night.  My heart hurts at the thought of taking that away.  So I'm making sure her mouth is completely clean before bed, and I have a bottle of this xylitol gel stuff on my nightstand.  I'm actually coating my nipple with it before she latches on at night.  Ridiculous?  Yes.  But I had to find a compromise.  She doesn't really "nurse" nurse in the middle of the night, she mainly just comfort sucks so the good thing is the xylitol-covered nipple is really sitting on the back of those front teeth for a good time.

Praying for a miracle....her dad has active cavities in his mouth right now, and he doesn't have insurance but I've convinced him to go to a low-cost dental clinic to get a cleaning and fillings.  His appointment is Friday...so we're making progress in everyone's mouth, I hope.

Thank you all for the support.  This is just heartbreaking.  But I feel a little better knowing that I am looking at every possible option out there, every available alternative.  I know that the end result might be the capping of those four teeth....but I will do everything I can to save the rest of her teeth from the same fate.  And if I can SEE a visual improvement already from the naked eye, then I might have a little more time to try these options than what I previously thought.

If it makes you feel any better, both of my nephews (they're brothers) had to have thee majority of their baby teeth capped.
They just decayed very easily despite all efforts.
But when their adult teeth came in they had no problems.
They are 16 and 11 now and have never had a cavity in their adult teeth.

So even if she has problems with her baby teeth, as long as those problems are taken care of, it doesn't mean their adult teeth will be the same way.

[Wolfcat]

Sometimes it happens.

DS (now almost 5) got FILLINGS in his teeth when he was just about 2.5 yo. And he LOVES to brush his teeth. The dentist said it was cuz he had soft enamel, which can happen when the teeth growth faster than the body can support. (It was partially due to him getting his teeth in so quickly... all molars were in before he was 18 mo.)

The moral of the story is this: sometimes the human body has a small flaw that can cause this kind of thing; parents can't do much about it.

[BreezyMommy]

Update:  I cancelled the appointment for the 17th.  The dentist said he respected and understood that I need to go through this "process" but he added a little dig in there about us having the actually extract if we wait.  One minute I feel like I'm doing the right thing, the next minute I'm second guessing myself.  Of course, her health and well being is my priority here...this is just so difficult!!!!

[lookatreestar]

i think if you rush into it, you might regret it. honesty a week or a month is not going to hurt anything esp if you are trying to heal them and your dd is not in pain.

[JMJ]

My daughter's teeth began to decay around 7 months when she was exclusively breastfed.  I was calcium deficient during my pregnancy.  We have nearly stopped 3 cavities and a cracked tooth with diet.  She is now 26 months old, we have not needed to undergo any treatments or general anesthesia, and she is in no pain... well... not from her cavities.  She is actually teething and has a cold right now, so she's not too comfortable, but her cavities are not painful.  She still nurses many times every night.  We brush her teeth twice a day with a baking soda based tooth powder.  I strongly recommend you get your hands on a copy of Ramiel Nagel's "Cure Tooth Decay" and look at the Dental health forum here and move towards a traditional foods diet.  Hugs to you.  I can remember the late nights crying my eyes out.

A couple quick things on dental health.  First, what cavities look like.  When they are white or yellow they are growing very fast.  You may be seeing what you want to see and think that the color is fading, or another piece may have chipped off, leaving a lighter color underneath.  When decay slows, it darkens.  When it stops, it is hard and dark brown/black.  This is the way that we define healing, though it does not look pretty.  If it is chalky-feeling, white, yellow, light brown, or flaking off, you need to take immediate action.  Secondly, look into the success rates of capping baby teeth.  Most (if not all) of the children I know who have undergone this have gone on to need extractions.  The caps for many children are just an expensive procedure on the road to extraction, requiring general anesthesia twice, not once.  You are her mom, and you will make the best decision for your daughter.  If the decay has progressed far enough, you may need to do something to prevent infection, and if things have gotten bad enough, getting caps might give you just the support you need to save her teeth while you make dietary changes.

PM me if you want more information or just want to vent to a BTDT mama.  I have our story (long version) typed out and many links on options and ideas that I have shared with some other mothers.  It's overwhelming, but it helps to have somewhere to go, hope that healing is possible.

[dovey]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you!  I would be freaking out too.  Please don't blame yourself or your diet.  It sounds like you were feeding your child very healthful and nutritious foods.

Saying the following, I don't mean to be rude, but just state what I have seen.  I have found no reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that a diet high in butter and bone broth, etc. will protect your daughter's teeth.  There is some evidence that the correct amount of flouride can help protect her teeth. 

I believe that tooth health is genetic for the most part.  My kiddos have had nearly the exact same situation w/their teeth which you described for your daughter.  They have a vegan diet, some sugar and fruits, brush teeth once each day usually, breastfed at night through the second year.  They are now 5 and 7 and have no cavities.  They are just lucky, I guess.     

I hope you figure out the best way to deal with all of this.  It sounds like you're doing a wonderful job looking into all the possibilities.   

[lkmiscnet]

Xylitol. There is a lot of research behind it. Google it. You might add 1/4 tsp per cup of water for your LO.

Also, I came across a book called, Kiss Your Dentist Goodbye", written by a dentist. The foundation of the book is the benefits of xylitol.

Here is one article. 

http://drellie.com/pdfs/Xylitol-for-Babies.pdf

Her main site is drellie.com. I think she will respond to questions too via her website, but I'm not positive about that.

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by dovey 

I'm so sorry this is happening to you!  I would be freaking out too.  Please don't blame yourself or your diet.  It sounds like you were feeding your child very healthful and nutritious foods.

Saying the following, I don't mean to be rude, but just state what I have seen.  I have found no reliable scientific evidence to support the idea that a diet high in butter and bone broth, etc. will protect your daughter's teeth.  There is some evidence that the correct amount of flouride can help protect her teeth. 

I believe that tooth health is genetic for the most part.  My kiddos have had nearly the exact same situation w/their teeth which you described for your daughter.  They have a vegan diet, some sugar and fruits, brush teeth once each day usually, breastfed at night through the second year.  They are now 5 and 7 and have no cavities.  They are just lucky, I guess.     

I hope you figure out the best way to deal with all of this.  It sounds like you're doing a wonderful job looking into all the possibilities.   

It is true that children often have similar dental problems as their parents, but it is difficult to tell if this is their genetic heritage, nutritional heritage, or just being exposed to the same mouth germs.  Probably a combination, but Dr. Price studied cultures that had no dental decay and watched them as they became exposed to refined/processed foods.  Things got progressively worse for each generation... except those that kept their traditional diet.

I think it is right that you should be skeptical.  I certainly was and still am about a number of products that have not existed throughout history that are being marketed to cure tooth decay.  You're right, there have not been double-blind, peer-reviewed studies of using diet to cure cavities, but as a mother of an infant whose dentist wanted to put her under general anesthesia before her first birthday because of cavities, I had to try something.  We took a whole foods approach with carefully selected foods to target certain nutrients and prepared in ways to maximize nutrient content and absorption.  Many of the important nutrients come quite well from plants, but some of the nutrients in which I felt we were deficient (based on the fact that we were not meeting the RDA through food and had symptoms of deficiency), we would have a hard time getting enough to catch up from plants alone: zinc, preformed Vitamin A, Vitamin D, DHA, Calcium.  We're just a case study, but I know that we undertook the diet that we did in hopes of slowing/stopping the growth of the cavities that my daughter has in hopes of avoiding general anesthesia, and the growth of the cavities has slowed and almost stopped, and she has not needed general anesthesia. 

Maybe my daughter is just the lucky one, but there are many people with similar experiences.  I can't make any scientific claims without myore scientific research, but in the little experiment I ran in my own home, my results are promising.  I researched and created a hypothesis that the decay in my daughter's teeth would slow or stop if she had enough of the right nutrients.  I went about testing this hypothesis in a way that I thought would be safe for my daughter, avoiding chemicals, synthetic vitamins (because of the possibility of overdose), and being careful about only eating healthy animal products prepared using safe food handling practices.  If I failed, the worst that could happen was that the rest of my daughter's body would be well nourished.  Of course, in scientific research, one always has to admit that there could have been confounding factors.  The results could have been caused by something unrelated but the objective facts are that we made some dietary changes, and then there was improvement.  Coincidence?  You and I may have different opinions.

I'm not trying to convince you to change your family's diet if it seems to be working well for you.  In fact, many of the foods that I am using to cure my daughter's teeth are ones that fit with your diet as well: vegetable juices, seaweed, soaked/sprouted grains, beans, nuts and seeds, avocado, coconut and olive oils, berries, probiotic foods (many of which are vegan, and most could be if I used a starter culture or more salt instead of whey).  I actually got asked by my cashier in the grocery store yesterday if I was vegetarian because of the amount and variety of vegetables I was buying and the fact that I don't buy animal products in a regular grocery store.  I certainly feel like the high quality animal products (from animals raised naturally and treated humanely) that we do eat are a very important part of our diet, but 95% of what is in my house is plants.