Dental Crisis in 15 month old - PLEASE HELP - Page 2

[titania8]

Glad you are seeing improvements! Keep up the good work! I was going to tell you about the yahoo group 'very young kids teeth', but I see someone else mentioned it. I urge you to join.

Here's my happy dentist story, maybe you or someone else can get something out of it-

Last august we took our kids (then 4.5, 4.5, and 20 mo) to the dentist for the first time. Micah, 4.5, had a molar with visible decay, not just on the surface, but like a crater on the side and top. We found out his 4 second molars didn't form enough (or any?) enamel. Anyway, this dentist, who is a top rated ped dentist wanted to put a stainless steel crown on it. And he wanted to do it in what -to me and my dh- was a traumatic way (grabbing him from the waiting room, restraining him, doing the work, and then we would go back and "rescue" him. They called it "grab and go"). no thanks.

We got a second opinion months later (yes, we should have moved quicker, but it is what it is) with our family dentist. He put a filling in it, and had me sit next to the chair while he did it. It went great. Only a filling- not a crown!!

best of luck with your little one.

[BreezyMommy]

Well ladies....I prayed for a miracle....and I got one!

We took her to another dentist for a second opinion.  This dentist was very open to my hopes that teeth can remineralize, and said that through diet and all of the other things we're doing (pascalite, cell salts, cod liver oil, etc) it is entirely possible.  The greatest news was that from what HE could see, all she needs is a little bonding.  NO CROWNS!!!

We're following Weston A. Price's guidelines closely.  She is eating some very...uh, different....foods now (liver, etc) but she loves it.  We're using xylitol throughout the day, and I've made her toothpaste using the xylitol and clay.  The combination of all of it seems to be working!

Thank you all for the support and advice!

[JMJ]

Oh you must feel so relieved! I'm glad that you found a dentist who would support you in your decision. My daughter eats a lot of pate made mostly from grassfed beef liver and grassfed ghee.  It has been our saving grace since she started refusing to take CLO.  Good luck with everything!

[McGucks]

Careful on the overbrushing, folks.  You can scrub away the enamel.  Glad the OP is having some success with her approach!  Yeah! 

[lookatreestar]

Originally Posted by caedenmomma 

Careful on the overbrushing, folks.  You can scrub away the enamel.  Glad the OP is having some success with her approach!  Yeah! 

thank you for this reminder!!!

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by BreezyMommy 

Thank you all....the last few days have been a whirlwind of emotions.

I know this sounds crazy...and maybe I am....maybe I'm seeing what I want to see...but I'm seeing an improvement on her teeth!  I have changed her diet completely, and while it was super healthy before it is amazingly healthy now.  I'm going broke buying it, but I don't care.  The brown on the tongue-side of her teeth is fading to a yellow-ish color and the white lines on the front of her teeth are shrinking.  Since an x-ray hasn't been taken yet (which I will most certainly demand before any procedure is done) could it be possible that this was just staining?  Or decay in the very, very beginning?  

Xylitol has become our best friend.  And brushing....we are brushing after every single meal, snack and nursing session.  Along with before bed, immediately after naps, and first thing in the morning.  I have lost count how many times we are brushing a day but I suspect it's around 15 times.  

I am desperately trying to find pascalite clay in my area - I might have to order online if I don't find any by the end of today.  I'm going to try cell salts as well.

And then the night nursing...ladies, she LOVES her milkies through the night.  My heart hurts at the thought of taking that away.  So I'm making sure her mouth is completely clean before bed, and I have a bottle of this xylitol gel stuff on my nightstand.  I'm actually coating my nipple with it before she latches on at night.  Ridiculous?  Yes.  But I had to find a compromise.  She doesn't really "nurse" nurse in the middle of the night, she mainly just comfort sucks so the good thing is the xylitol-covered nipple is really sitting on the back of those front teeth for a good time.

Praying for a miracle....her dad has active cavities in his mouth right now, and he doesn't have insurance but I've convinced him to go to a low-cost dental clinic to get a cleaning and fillings.  His appointment is Friday...so we're making progress in everyone's mouth, I hope.

Thank you all for the support.  This is just heartbreaking.  But I feel a little better knowing that I am looking at every possible option out there, every available alternative.  I know that the end result might be the capping of those four teeth....but I will do everything I can to save the rest of her teeth from the same fate.  And if I can SEE a visual improvement already from the naked eye, then I might have a little more time to try these options than what I previously thought.

Mama, your DH can reverse his decay as well. But it means diet changes. No grains for the duration if they are real bad, and consuming lots of bone broth, fermented cold liver oil and high vitamin butter oil (K2) as well as a good variety of nutrient dense foods, such as pastured eggs and meat and raw dairy.
If you also begin upping these things in your diet, your baby will benefit by way of your milk.

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by BreezyMommy 

Well ladies....I prayed for a miracle....and I got one!

We took her to another dentist for a second opinion.  This dentist was very open to my hopes that teeth can remineralize, and said that through diet and all of the other things we're doing (pascalite, cell salts, cod liver oil, etc) it is entirely possible.  The greatest news was that from what HE could see, all she needs is a little bonding.  NO CROWNS!!!

We're following Weston A. Price's guidelines closely.  She is eating some very...uh, different....foods now (liver, etc) but she loves it.  We're using xylitol throughout the day, and I've made her toothpaste using the xylitol and clay.  The combination of all of it seems to be working!

Thank you all for the support and advice!

Is it not amazing how the body responds to real food?

[Sayward]

How do you use xylitol? Is it added to food/drink, or is it applied directly to the teeth?

[lookatreestar]

i haven't gone back to the dentist yet but i can tell my teeth have changed a lot, we are doing pastured eggs, pastured chicken, cod liver oil/butter oil, brushing with tooth soap, little to no sugar (mostly fruit), water pik, clay, etc!

[lookatreestar]

oh and this totally reminds me why you should always get a second opinion! it doesn't hurt and can help a lot!

[peaceful_mama]

I have 4 kids.  #1 had his first cavities--one very small but filled because they were doing the other--this Feb. at almost 6.5   #2 age 4 has none.

#3, age 2.5 just had his anesthetic surgery last Tuesday to have 3 silver caps put on molars and the 4 front repaired with tooth colored material.   :(:(:(

The difference I see with mine is not night-nursing.  Both #2 and #3 night nursed past a year old.

The difference I see is #3 had a LOT more candy at a younger age--because of siblings and because Daddy was home more.  (*I* am not a big candy buyer, I am more likely to buy a toy that costs a buck lol)

Also #1 and 2 drank a lot more milk and a lot less juice than #3.  When I say 'a lot' though I mean they consistently drank milk before bedtime and usually also in the morning and almost always at naptime.  Again, *I* rarely offered juice, though I would give it if *they* brought it up---DH considers it a necessity.

I cried when I found out DS #2 had SEVEN cavities  :(  I also feel really guilty, but I have to keep reminding myself of things like it could be just plain bad luck--DH's teeth are in far worse condition than mine.

I am learning about Weston Price too and starting to follow a few things.  I think my next project will be to learn broth....it's one that sounds easier the more I hear and read about it, and it is also one that should easily fit even our limited budget.

[JMJ]

Peaceful_mama, the factors you mention could certainly play a role, and it could also have to do with birth order/spacing.  Traditional cultures tended to space babies at least 3 years.  A lot of people underestimate the nutrition required of the mother to gestate and nurse a baby, and it takes some time to rebuild her supply.  As a result, younger siblings and siblings born closer together are more likely to have problems.

[BreezyMommy]

Originally Posted by Sayward 

How do you use xylitol? Is it added to food/drink, or is it applied directly to the teeth?

We mix it with her water and let her sip on it all day.  I also spinkle it on her toothbrush with the pascalite clay!

[BreezyMommy]

Another update:  she is responding wonderfully to the diet changes.  We have cut out ALL grains with the exception of occasional sprouted sourdough - she only gets this a couple times a week.  I've been making bone broth soup like crazy.  She loves it!  And liver - my goodness can this girl tear up some liver!

I'm currently giving her Carlson's for Kids cod liver oil, but thinking of switching to Green Pastures because I understand the quality and potency is better.  Any thoughts?

Thank you for the comment about scrubbing the enamel off - I've been worried about the same thing, it's hard to find a balance.  As soon as she eats not my first instinct is to get her teeth clean.  I've moved away from using toothpaste and we're mainly using the pascalite clay to brush, with a little xylitol sprinkled on sometimes.  I'm making a paste with the clay as well and "packing" the tongue-side of her teeth with it while she's sleeping.

As far as the night nursing - ladies, I'll be honest, we're having difficulty with cutting back.  And I'm a firm believer that if it doesn't feel right, don't do it!  So she's nursing as much as ever during the night.  I brush right before she goes down and right when she wakes up.  I just can't cut her off - I've been able to soothe her back to sleep through pats, hugs, whispers and kisses a few times but if that doesn't work - she gets the boob!

The cell salts seem to be making a difference too.  I'm truly just amazed at how it's all working.

Can someone give me more info about Butter Oil?  Where to get it, brands, etc?  Should I just order from Green Pastures with the cod liver oil?  Also, I'm giving her the cod liver oil twice a day (approx 1/2 teaspoon each time) - is that enough?  She's 15 months and 26lbs.  Thanks again for all your advice and guidance!

[BreezyMommy]

Originally Posted by dreamchimes4 

hi :) I don't have personal experience with this, but I remembered reading on one of my favorite blogs about this issue. This mama stopped her DD's tooth decay at home with mostly bone broths and other diet changes. She explains more in this entry:

http://lusaorganics.typepad.com/clean/2010/02/natural-toothpaste-tutorial.html

Her DD still ended up with caps because the damage that was done couldn't be reversed, but they prevented any more from happening. She also writes:

"Heres how we did it (and her decay stopped within one month of starting what I describe below. We did have caps done because the decay was sever before we figured it out and we werent willing to have her lose her teeth while we figured it out).

There is an amazing thread on Motherings Community Pages:http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=399989 It is an exhaustingly long read, but so worth the nights you will spend working your way through it. That was our jumping off point. What most of my research pointed to was a vitamin D deficiency, something that is amazingly common. Also, Canada just released a study last month (this month?) confirming this. Mothers with low vitamin D levels had babes with decay.

I should do a tooth care post sometime, but to get you by here is our basic framework:

1. Eat primarily traditional foods, including grass fed raw milk, limited refined foods, limited dried fruit. Focus on whole foods, meats, broth, veggies, live food.

2. Make bone broth and consume (ideally daily) at least 4 times per week (easy to do when you cook your grains and beans in it)
3. Brush without toothpaste! (Gylcerin in toothpaste impedes the ability of teeth to remineralize) We brush with homemade toothpaste that is something like this (http://www.passionatehomemaking.com/2008/08/going-fluoride-free.html) or homemade tooth powder (without abrasives like baking soda).

The two points that follow are key...
4. Supplement with Vitamin D (2500 IU) and Vitamin A (25,000 IU) daily. We do this in the ideal form of High Vitamin Cod Liver Oil (http://www.greenpasture.org/community/). Expensive, but worth it!

5. Suppliment with Butter Oil (Also from Green Pasture), 1/2 tsp/day

Let me know if I can help more. There is a great book I recommend as well. Thought I have only read excerpts, I am about to purchase it to read completely. It seems right on track. http://www.curetoothdecay.com/"

Found all that here: http://lusaorganics.typepad.com/clean/2009/11/raw-granola-recipe.html?cid=6a010535f3a090970c0120a6d8c14e970b#comment-6a010535f3a090970c0120a6d8c14e970b

hope this helps :)

Can I get the Butter Oil/Cod Liver blend from Green Pastures?  Or do I need to buy them seperately? :)

[amaayeh]

We went through this last year with my youngest.  It was hard.  We ended up having the front four teeth capped, although NOT under general.  We did it in the office with sedation and it turned out ok.  Since having it done, we haven't had any problems.  Feel free to PM me about it.  It was terribly traumatic on me, but she seemed fine within an hour of the procedure and I was with her the entire time.  Wouldn't have it any other way.  Good luck.