Winding Down

[devasareen]

Hi there, This is my first MDC post!! 

I have a 14 month old daughter and am reaching out for help around bedtime.

This is what things look like right now....

7 am wake up

breast feed/indoor play

830 breakfast

outdoor play

1030 snack

11-1 nap

indoor play

snack

outdoor play

530 dinner  "breathe in"  

 "breathe out" time by playing a little bit after dinner.

put her in the baby carrier or in arms to start helping her focus on her body and the coming down time "breathe in"

bath time "breathe out"

This is where things get difficult....

Bath time usually gets cut short due to sleepy/fussy baby wanting to nurse. I am okay with nursing her to sleep at night but it has turned into nursing 20 times over the span of about 630-8pm while trying to wind down for bed. 

After bath/Before bed I try to keep her from getting into play on her own. We look at books together, which gets her very excited, I massage her, I breast feed her, I walk around the room with her in arms, singing, etc....

She continues to bounce up with energy and strives to get on the floor and play. 

I have started to give her a before bed snack such as banana, milk, yogurt, rice pudding, etc... and I am realizing she usually goes down with the sun(around 830) although her body is ready far before 730.

Most nights she is asleep by 9 and I am exhausted from putting her down. I am aiming for the 730 bedtime so I can get a couple hours in and she is getting the sleep she needs.

We are cosleeping.

I am sorry if I did not explain this in the most helpful way but basically I am trying to say that our wind down time in the evening is not working. 

What is it like for you other nursing mamas with a baby/toddler and going to sleep? 

Any suggestions?

With Love

Sareen and baby Crystara

[ThreeTwoFive]

That does sound exhausting.  Hugs to you.

Have you considered whether or not winding down is so necessary?

My 20 mo DS goes from run, play, excited mode to sleep within a couple of minutes.  We have dinner at 6, bath at 6:30, 10-15 minutes of nursing, read a couple of books (or run around and play a while), sing Twinkle Twinkle, and he's ready for bed by 7:30 at the latest, often 7:00.  You say her body is ready for sleep at 7:30.  I would skip the wind down and try just putting her down.

We don't cosleep very often (he kicks).  

Your morning nap sounds a little early, too.  If you could push the nap back, that might help.  

[devasareen]

I thought the "winding down" would help the breastfeeding process not be so brutal. When she is "wound up" she twiddles, bites, jumps from breast to breast, kicks and is restless. But to tell you the truth, I am not really finding that the winding down is helping that. In the AM she is very tired by 11 am so what I may try to do is encourage a 1 hour nap from 11-12 and then another 1 hour nap from like 2-3? I just worry that sleeping that late in the afternoon will keep her up longer! Thanks alot for you response and assistance in this processing~

[lovepickles]

Welcome!

We have a similar schedule with our 17 month old although is about an hour later on everything. I found myself getting very frustrated at night when DD just won't go to sleep. Then I realized that she was responding to my frustration. Now we go through our routine of bath, brush teeth and drying her hair with the air filter then nursing. After she is done nursing we bring Daddy in to hold her and bounce her to sleep on a big giant ball. Or you could use a rocker.

I found that knowing when I knew I was going to be done each night I could just relax and go through the steps. After nursing we would both call Daddy in and he would take over the part of the evening that varies in length with bouncing and getting her to sleep. It works because I know when I'm done and Daddy knows when to start. DD gets fresh meat at a critical time in the evening and we are all happy.

Basically if you do all of the steps yourself at the end of them all you can really send out some exasperated signals. Try splitting up the responsibilities with another person if possible.

[JudiAU]

Have you considered switching back to two naps a day? You might squeeze in an extra nap. She is pretty young to do one nap a day. She sounds really tired at night but over-tired.

[JudiAU]

Also, have you tried walking her in a sling (great for DH), rocking in her chair, or bouncing her on an excercise ball.

[devasareen]

workin on the two naps a day - it worked yester but we still had difficulties at bed time bc she wants to nurse but not fall asleep. bout to get ready for bed, thank you beautiful mamas

[devasareen]

Well, i didnt have to try any trick this evening, she went right to sleep after bed time (very uncommon). I have been really conscious about making sure she gets her rest times in (and i dont just mean nap) .

I realized today that when she desires to nurse she is asking for "in" time or rest time. So I think by introducing the rest times before it is too late i will have more of an easeful night and a better weaning experience. learnin everydy!

[Faither]

Sounds like our nights recently too. Then she bumped her head on our table and we realized that DD grew an inch (!) in a month, on top of teething (molars) and the heat and all the other developmental things that go on. DD is almost 18 months and got herself down to one nap a day around 14 months or so. but some days she will still take a second half hour nap in the afternoon.

What worked for us was just trying to read her signs. She knows when she wants to go to sleep and if we can somehow anticipate or go with that it all seems to work out. Recently she decided she wanted to go to sleep around 7pm and wake up at 7am (we also cosleep/bedshare). That worked for just long enough for us to get really used to it (5ish days), then she started waking up around 11pm and being up for an hour or three. Tonight we were in bed by 8.45 which is much better for everyone all around. We'll see what happens. She's already woken up twice, but like I said, molar and a growth spurt would wake me up too.

We nurse and rock at the same time to get to sleep. And if that doesn't work daddy rocks and walks with her. I'm *not* allowed to rock or just walk I *must* nurse according to DD. She gets very upset when I try to do otherwise. But everything seems to work for a couple of days or a week then it all changes again. I know it's not too helpful but it will pass. 

[devasareen]

does it work for you all to do one nursing in the evening before bed or do you find that she wants to be attached to your nipple from bath-bed like crystara?

[organicviolin]

When DS was this age he was in bed by 6.30 at the latest and had a nap from 10-12 and 2-4.  The trick is to not let them get overtired.  Then DS would sleep from 6.30-6.30/7 am. 

Sleep begets sleep remember and if the babe is over tired they have a hard time settling in for the night.  I highly recommend the book Healthy Sleep Habits HHappy Child by Dr Weissbluth.  He gives great advice and is a very knowledgeble pediatrician.  He even does consultations for sleep issues!  :-) HTH

[SunRise]

When I read your post, I wondered if your babe need a wee nap in the afternoon?  Maybe she is overtired by night.

My 15 month old wakes @ 7:30am, naps around 10:30 or 11:00 for two hours. And she takes another nap anywhere between 3pm to 6 pm. This nap is for one hour. And then she is back down around 8:30 - 9:30pm and sleeps for the night.

She is currently "outgrowing" this late afternoon nap, but definitely still needs it 3-5 times a week. If she doesn't have the nap she is sleeping for the night by 8:30pm. Surprisingly, the afternoon nap doesn't keep her up later at night ... the later bedtime as more to do with an 8 yr old and putting two to sleep.

Good luck

p.s. Oops, I just read the middle of the thread and see things are working out better. Yay!

[Boot]

My baby is the same age. All children are different but I think your lo may need more sleep than she's getting. My DD wakes up at about 7.30, naps from 9.30 to 11.30 and then from about 1.30 to 3.30 and goes to bed at about 7. I'm not saying you should aim for this as it's more than normal but it's just to give you a comparison. I don't do any kind of wind down routine. I just take her upstairs at bedtime and get her changed, nursed and into bed. My son needed a lot more help with going to sleep (and still does) but we also try not to drag it out. I would move everything earlier, just have a quick bath (if at all) get her dressed and nurse her in a quiet, dark room. I presume she nurses to sleep? You might have to do a REALLY early bedtime for a few days to catch her up but then slowly move it. With a 11-1 nap I would say she should be asleep by 6.30. Also, there could be some teething issues going on. Have you tried camillia? I second the Weisbluth book suggestion. He does advocate cio but also gives alternatives so you can just pick and choose what advice to follow. He also supports nursing to sleep which is nice. I really liked to book because the advice is so concrete. I hate it when books tell you to what they think you should be doing but don't tell you HOW. Anyway, good luck

[devasareen]

Thanks A Lot for your response, very nice. I am in the process of reforming our daily rhythm so that it leads up to a 10 am nap and an afternoon nap. I am interested in getting the No Cry Sleep Solution book and the Weisbluth book, these have both been very highly recommended and I figure anything to take both of us out of our evening misery. Most importantly I see that I should maintain a steady "breath in, breathe out" throughout the day to make sure that she is getting adequate rest times in with her outward and energetic play times. Thanks again for your response~~~~

[devasareen]

does it work for you all to do one nursing in the evening before bed or do you find that she wants to be attached to your nipple from bath-bed like crystara?

[Faither]

I work outside the home and bed time can work two different ways. I generally get home between 7 and 7.30pm. If DD is cranky and wants to go to bed when I first get home then we nurse and rock until she's asleep (generally no more then 45 minutes). If she's not, we nurse for a few minutes when I first come in. Then dinner, bath and bed by 8.30/8.45 and she generally is asleep by 9. Those nights are more for if we woke up late or if she took a late nap. DH is with her during the day and if he has trouble getting her to nap (anywhere from 11 to 1; and usually less then 2 hours), she'll go to sleep earlier.

We tried the No Cry Sleep Solution and the Nap Solution. They worked well to get her on a "schedule." For about a week we woke up every morning at 7 and she would want a nap no later then 11. Of course that happened to be a good week (no teething or growth spurts) and she napped for about two hours each day then would go to bed for the night around 8. Of course when she's teething (which lately feels like all the time) or working on a growth spurt, this flies out the window.

Good Luck!