Cross posted/desperate for night weaning advice

[lemontree]

Cross posting because I really need advice, and don’t know where to turn....

DS will be 20mths this week. I have always BF on demand. And believe me there has been a lot of demand. He has always been a high frequency nurser. We co-sleep and he nurses all night long. On an amazing night he will go for two three/four hour stretches in a row without nursing. Usually he nurses a lot after 3am. I have been waiting for 20 months for it to improve on it’s own. Telling myself that “once these teeth come in it will improve” and when it doesn’t I say “cognitive leap? tummy ache? obviously he needs it since he is still nursing so much....” It looked like it was getting better, I saw a light at the end of the tunnel. I was able to nurse him to sleep in our bed, scoop him into the crib, come to bed when I was ready (sometimes before he woke to nurse!) and nurse him a few times as we slept. Well. It got worse. This past week it has been brutal nursing him to sleep. And he’s having a hard time staying asleep. Lots of pinching and flailing around. Is he teething? Perhaps. I mean, it’s always a possibility. Even though his final canine came through, he is cranky and drooly during day....he could be getting his 2 yr molars? Cognitive leap? He’s getting a bunch of words right now...but come on! After almost a week of this I am at my wits end. I am used to being exhausted. I am used to sometimes going to bed so so so early so I can function. I have not slept more than four consecutive hours in 20 months. Because I have always thought it would improve when he hit 18 months. Then I was like “maybe 19?” And here we are. Last night I was crying a little as he suckled in the dark. We want to try to get PG this summer, and I really don’t see how I can handle it. I want to help him sleep better, heck that’s why I have BF on demand like this--cuz I thought I was helping him!

I am thinking about night weaning, but when I think of him crying for nursing I can’t handle it, I have always pictured us communicating about it when he was ready, or it happening more naturally. Does it have to be all or nothing? Is there a way to help him decrease his need for night nursing without cutting him off? My DH is more than willing to help, but I don’t know how to begin. I have read every book and website. NCSS, Jay Gordon etc. But nothing I have read seems to seem possible for me. Has anyone been in a similar situation? Can anyone give me a gentle plan for more rest? Sorry for the long post. I am feeling defeated and overwhelmed--esp when I think about getting PG if it’s still like this.

[JoyFilled]

I have a couple of ideas.  DD weaned with some help at 2 years.  And we co-sleep.

I started telling her a couple of times a night that it was "owee" for mama.  Then she would ask if it was owee or nice.  If I said "owwee" she would normally be okay with it.  She maybe cried "not owee, nice" about 4 times all together.  I also kept a sippy cup of milk (I know terrible. But after a week switch to water.) and offered that and hugs instead of nursing.  I made sure to wear a shirt that made it hard to nurse to bed.  I find that still a couple months later that if I don't have a shirt on she asks for milk.

Another idea is to sleep in a different room for a few nights and leave DH with your DS.  You could nurse him to sleep but then not come back.  I found DD would sleep fine with DH and not cry but if I was there needed to nurse.

Currently, DD needs to be sharing (or should I say hogging) my pillow and needing cuddles to sleep.

[nd01]

I was definitely in your shoes 2 months ago.  My 21 mos old was co-sleeping and waking ever 2 hrs to nurse.  And we want to get pregnant this summer too so sleep was a big concern.  We started with a couple strategies - first, he usually started the night in his crib and then we'd bring him in but he hated his crib.  So we transitioned to a floor mattress in his room which he loved (just used the crib mattress) and we put a twin mattress next to it for the adult.  We knew we'd have to wean in another room than my husband b/c my son would be crying.  So the first night we did it, I snuck in at my bedtime and just slept next to him so I could soothe him as soon as he woke without nursing (I found the quicker my response time, the easier it was) and I'd just try to push the time back (so at first, not until 1 am and then 2 am, etc).  The first weekend we had, my husband stayed with him overnight in there and comforted him until 6 am, when we let him nurse.  He would definitely get upset and it took about 2 weeks for him to deal with it but b/c he was on his own bed, he could get out and read or get a toy.  We gave him water too which helped quite a bit. 

Eventually we wouldn't go in until he woke up and then just give him water and lay down next to him until he fell asleep.  He went from waking every 2 hrs to waking every 3 or 4 and now sometimes he'll sleep until morning.  I find that at this age he still might understand what you are saying to him - we usually say that we aren't going to nurse until it is morning/light out but he can have water, snuggles, etc.  But we're finally at a point that I have been able to go out of town twice without him (my husband and mom stayed with him and he would settle back down for them). 

It seems like it is going to be awful and the first few nights are rough but it got better so quickly that I kinda wish we did it earlier.  And I just tried to remind myself that he deserves a good night's rest too and I need to help remove that dependency to nurse.  I actually read Ferber's book (not for the crying part but for the research) and he said that part of it is that if the baby has eaten every night at 1 and 3 and 5, then his body clock is telling him to be hungry at that time (like if we eat as adults at 3pm every day, we come to expect that snack but we don't really need it).  So it was that book that suggested to just push back the time a little bit every day so you could help retrain his body not to want food.  That was a lot better for me than Dr. Jay Gordon (where my son was very frustrated when I would pull him off the breast early).  Good luck - I promise it will get better.

[janet953]

I am always reading posts by anyone who may be suffering sleep deprivation like I am--and you sound like you're right there with me for many of the same reasons.

DD is 18 months. BF on demand. A happy baby by day. Naps 1-2 times a day. She is in 'her own room' on a floor mattress, though I co-sleep with her every night largely because she seems to need to be coached at sleeping all night. I like co-sleeping, but just like you I really would like to get both of us better sleep. (DH gets a king bed to himself in another room! DD only wants mama at night. I'm sure we both contributed to this. But at least as the bread-winner in the family, he gets enough sleep to do the daily workplace drudgery.)

She has always been an awful sleeper. At first it was strange, loud noises; now it is constant flopping around, twitching, and waking up just about every hour, maybe every two if I am lucky. Often at the beginning of the night I can get her back to sleep by snuggling & singing. (This versus nursing took a long time to take hold.) The later it gets, the more she demands nursing. If I deny her, well, then all hell breaks loose and we are both up struggling for an hour plus.  I have only flirted with denying her. I was just too tired to fight.

Anyway, you have a mama-pal standing by you on those super hard nights when the tears come. I feel like we have done well by our children and that we will continue to do so as best we can. (I, too, think every day that surely this coming night will be the turning point! How else could we not start to dread nitenite time?) With the hope of another pregnancy soon, we must find a happy solution. It may be tough but we always take great care with our little loves.

No advice, but I will say this: the best development so far is getting her to nurse for a wee bit shorter time during the night-nursings. I've been pushing the cue "baby go nite-nite, mama go nite-nite, mama-milk go nite-nite." Just this has taken weeks but I think it is sticking...and, well, I get to try it again tonight a couple, three, four times to see. Ha!

[Mama_of_1]

We are doing the night weaning right now, based on a modified version of Jay Gordon, Dr. Sears, etc, etc.  You can see our story in the other thread.  The very first thing I would strongly suggest is to make sure that your LO is perfectly healthy.  For us, it was an issue with low iron levels.  Get the health portion checked before you begin the behavior portion.  Once you know that everything is fine, you just need to determine how long you're willing to go before you've had enough.  I believe that once your mental/emotional/physical health begins to suffer, then you can no longer provide your all to care for your children.  That's when you have to redirect and do what you need to do to make yourself healthier and happier.  As long as you are still providing all the love and care at every other time and are setting the boundaries in a reasonable way, there will be more benefit than anything else.