A question for 1-2-3 Magic users

[Maela]

Okay, so I'm outing myself as a 1-2-3 Magic user.  I'm halfway through the book and, despite a couple of things I disapprove of (locking a child in their room for time out), I'm really liking it.  I have a bad temper and a huge problem with blowing up and yelling (have not hit, but I've felt at risk for it).  Since beginning, I have been SO much calmer and haven't yelled once!  DD seems happier too.  

So now I'm reading the second half - about encouraging start behaviors - and it's all about stickers and charts and rewards.  I feel fine with the counting and the occasional time out or logical consequence, but I still feel reluctant to use rewards and sticker charts.  I think a sticker chart might work for DD for a couple of things, but...I don't know...I can't bring myself to do it.  I've read a few articles about the downside of using lots of praise and rewards, and how in the long run they are not good.  

Anyway, I guess I don't really have a specific question.  I just wanted to hear from other parents who use 1-2-3 Magic about encouraging start behaviors.

Please no flames.

[Just1More]

I've not read this particular book, so I'm not sure my thoughts apply, ftr.

But, I'm not big on rewards/punishments either.  It feels so fake and contrived.   I do think, however, that incentives have a purpose.  I like incentives.  Sometimes they are logical.  I tell myself, "If I hurry and get these dishes done, I can have a minute to myself before the baby wakes up"  Sometimes they aren't, "If I can manage not to spend money on extras, I'll let myself buy a treat at the end of the week."  Those things are helpful, and realistic.

I also feel that, for children (well, and grown-ups), they can be a motivator to create a new habit.  I don't think they ought to be the end state of the habit.  Does that make sense?  So, while I don't think children should be paid to do routine chores, I think it is a fine idea to say, "If we get all our work done before 8, we'll have time to stop at the store for doughnuts."  (a one-time thing, I guess).  Or maybe, "When you remember to make your bed every morning, you can put a sticker on your chart.  A week's worth of stickers equals something fun."  And then slowly raise the bar. 

It takes time to make a habit.  I do think it is bad to approach it from the standpoint of a reward.  I like to teach my children ways of managing themselves, and I think sharing with them the benefit of an incentive is not a bad way of doing it.

[APToddlerMama]

I don't use 1-2-3 magic with my son, but I'm a social worker and we frequently suggest and teach the families on our caseloads how to use it, and it is generally pretty successful.  I agree about not locking a kid in their room, etc., and the book is not totally up my alley in terms of rewards and consequences, but I think it can be great for many families if used with caution and thought.  As far as rewards/stickers, what about using something that seems more natural like "thank you for x,y,z...that was really helpful" or just a hug and attention for positive behavior?  Though I don't feel totally comfortable with it, I don't think any kid is going to be ruined by a sticker chart.  I feel like some of the "rules" related to this have gotten a bit silly.  Good luck!

[hakeber]

I haven't read the book either, but I have done count downs with my son and for some reason despite there never being a stipulated consequence, something about the look in my eyes, and the counting seems to work.  I do not understand why it works.  I think it's the slow, calm, eerily steady tone of my voice coupled with the raised eyebrows that say "If you think I'm kidding, buddy, you have another think coming!"  I use it very very sparingly and I think helps too, because he KNOWS I mean business and I am just counting to stop myself from going looney-tunes on him. 

When it hasn't worked I have scooped him up and taken him to his room where we have a "chat" and a sit together.  I would never lock a child in their room.  I might shut the door (if I knew they could open it) to give them some space if they needed it.

I have also used sticker charts to keep track of accomplishments, in public ways and it has helped him to get over humps of self-doubt to SEE the progress being made and then he has just dropped it.  It has never wound up in a need for the sticker in order to do well or feel good.  But this has been for stuff like bed wetting (which he wanted to stop doing, no pressure), and remembering to brush his teeth, and learning to read...all stuff he wanted to achieve but was having a hard time believing in his ability to do it.

[One_Girl]

If you don't think sticker charts and such will work for you then I don't think you should do them.  I took the good stuff that worked for me in that book and left a lot of the stuff that didn't when I read the book.  For me, the consistency was the key and I left the counting and stuff out but focused on setting a number of times I would state something then following through with giving dd the choice to do what she is asked to do or to have a consequence.  Once I got the consistency back down we were both more at peace and I was able to stop with the arbitrary consequence part and go back to the way I normally parent while still keeping consistent expectations in mind (for the most part).  We did briefly try a sticker chart for following rules and routines but it was too much maintanance and not something I felt comfortable using so we both stopped it.  If you need ideas for charts to try one of the nanny show people wrote a book with a section that talks about the different types of charts you can make though, including family goal ones with race tracks and stuff, and that may be a good place to look for sticker chart ideas.  She personalizes the charts to the child or family and they sound like they can be fun.  I think it was Nanny 911 but am not sure. 

[Sanveann]

We also do 123 Magic, and it's been a big help. We don't really do any of the sticker charts or anything either ... I just try to make it a point to give lots of positive feedback like, "Thank you for listening to Mommy right away! That was great" or "Wow, you were really helpful -- thank you so much!"

[VOBetz]

Originally Posted by hakeber I have also used sticker charts to keep track of accomplishments, in public ways and it has helped him to get over humps of self-doubt to SEE the progress being made and then he has just dropped it.  It has never wound up in a need for the sticker in order to do well or feel good.  But this has been for stuff like bed wetting (which he wanted to stop doing, no pressure), and remembering to brush his teeth, and learning to read...all stuff he wanted to achieve but was having a hard time believing in his ability to do it.

This has been HUGE for my son -- especially with homeschooling phonics lessons.  He's interested, but doesn't LOVE the lessons.  Having this huge lesson plan in front of him was overwhelming (as is the prospect of simply "learning to read").  So I broke down the lesson plans and make sticker charts with 15 spots.

We don't reward completion, other than him getting the sticker... but its been WONDERFUL for him to *see* the progress that he's making.

Just another take on "reward charts" to ponder.

[EviesMom]

We use sticker charts, though they don't get anything beyond the stickers. With 1-2-3, you aren't supposed to work on a ton of things and get stickers or rewards forever, just when a behavior is new and before it beomes routine/habit. I think of it more as a cue-ing system or reminder list than rewards per say. It's not so different from my chores list, which I don't find punitive or destructive to personal motivation. Just keeps the task at hand front and center.

Most of the anti rewards things I've read are really about long term rewards/incentives and the tendency to make kids start asking "what will you give me if I do x?" for everything.

[umsami]

It's been a few years since I read 1-2-3, and I am sort of drawing a blank on the sticker charts.  I remember the guy talking about driving to Florida to go to Disney or something and giving his kids 25 cents or some such amount for every amount of time they didn't fight/argue....but that's all that I remember.

We've used stickers/rewards with DS1 who had some behavior issues at school last year.  We followed Alan Kazdin's book/method--and it did seem to help, but it was designed to be for a short-period of time--I want to say 3-6 weeks?  As others have said, they're great for establishing new behaviors.  I think they can be overused, but I also think they have a place.  We usually use them in a family way--so everybody is working towards an extra special family game night/movie/etc.  More of a collaborative approach.  They really seem to love it if I'm included as well--so one time we did a making the bed before breakfast sticker chart...and the kids had great fun checking to see if Mom had made her bed. (Some times I hadn't!)    

I'm also a fan of the Love and Logic books--and I find that approach (logical consequences) seems to have more lasting effects in our house.