Spanking vs. violence. - Page 11

[Lady Love]

This has been hard for me lately. I don't know what to do when my SIL tells her two year old daughter that she is going to "bust her" for going near the street. She is only two and has never had any "behavior problems" anyway. What am I supposed to tell my son when he sees his aunt hitting her? It disgusts me! In my DH's family "spanking" is seen as so different than hitting. If I make an issue of it it will cause so much hostility towards me and not help my niece's case...A tough problem.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

This conversation reminded me of my extremely devout and VERY sweet friends (evangelical HSing Christians) who had THE nicest, friendly and sweet (and from all appearances, happy) kids.....they had this book and the only phrase that I remember from it was "to train up a child" - so I Googled that to see if it would lead me to the book. WOW. I don't know if this is the exact book that my friends used, but let me say again WOW

http://www.amazon.com/Train-Up-Child-Michael-Pearl/dp/1892112000

I can't even read the reviews, I read the first sentence and nearly started bawling. How horrible.

For the record, we are extremely religious, devout Christians who strictly adhere to our Church's teachings... I don't believe God would want me to hurt this sweet child He has given to us. (I just don't want anyone to get the impression that all Christians are in favor of spanking or anything...)

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by 2xy 

Well...has anyone reported the offensive posts? The mods don't read every single post.

Yes, more than one of them. I'm really hoping that it's a matter of the mods being busy (I know that happens), or not really knowing where to begin in cleaning up the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakeber 

ahhh okay.  misread that then.  That makes more sense.

eta: 

Just so you know I wasn't taking it out thin air.  What did you mean to say?

I think she's saying (Storm Bride, correct me if I'm wrong) that in the situation she's talking about, her dd was being hit by her ds.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

UMMM seriously? WHAT does that have to do with it not being violent? There are people who get turned on by circ too and it has to be a really tight circ with a dark scar. There are people who get turned on by rape too but well if they like it sooooooo much it must not be violent then right?

I think she made a good point actually, that not all spanking is violent. Spanking that is consensual is, imo, not violent. (circ'ing in most cases is not consensual, and rape is by definition not consensual).

That doesn't mean that I think the people who are saying spanking is violent are wrong (I'm not necessarily saying that they are right, either. It's sort of a semantics issue to me). They are obviously talking about spanking that involves a child, which means that it is not consensual.
 

Edited by DevaMajka - 6/10/11 at 8:54am

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Dacks 

I apologize for saying necessary, there are always other ways of dealing with a thing, but my uncle effectively and permanently impressed upon his child that running at moving vehicles was an absolutely unacceptable action that would have gotten her killed.

He did impress upon her that it was unacceptable, and that she might get hit if she were to do it again. However, I doubt she understood that she could have gotten killed. If she did have the cognitive ability to understand that, she wouldn't have had to be hit to refrain from running towards moving cars.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by DevaMajka 

Quote:

I think she's saying (Storm Bride, correct me if I'm wrong) that in the situation she's talking about, her dd was being hit by her ds.
 

ahhhhhhhh...I get it.   dur

[jezebelle]

Originally Posted by Lady Love 

This has been hard for me lately. I don't know what to do when my SIL tells her two year old daughter that she is going to "bust her" for going near the street. She is only two and has never had any "behavior problems" anyway. What am I supposed to tell my son when he sees his aunt hitting her? It disgusts me! In my DH's family "spanking" is seen as so different than hitting. If I make an issue of it it will cause so much hostility towards me and not help my niece's case...A tough problem.

I feel your pain.  I just got a call this morning that my nephew had to be picked up from day-care because he was physically fighting and broke another child's Nintendo DS.  My mom had to go get him and pay $100 for the DS.  When she got there, my nephew lied and said he had not done any of that and the daycare worker was lying.  Then he got up in the daycare worker's face and yelled at her and another child.  My nephew is 8, he has Asperger's and ADHD, and he lives with my brother (his dad) and my parents.  My family is now likely going to shave his head and spank him for the first time in his life because they are absolutely at the end of their rope.  I love my family, and I know that they have tried a lot of other alternatives, as my mom and brother are both generally anti-spanking.  I want to intervene, to help them find another way, but I honestly can't think of anything.  I don't think the spanking will help, I think it will just break the trust he has with his grandfather, and possibly give him a justification for hitting people in the future, but I don't know what to suggest.  It is hard, because parents who are tempted to spank want to see immediate results, which spanking usually gives.  I am not advocating it, I think it gives immediate results because it is scary and painful, but on the surface it seems to "work" at the time it is administered, and my solutions can't compete with that because they require time, dedication, and patience. 

[Midwesterner04]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 



For the record, we are extremely religious, devout Christians who strictly adhere to our Church's teachings... I don't believe God would want me to hurt this sweet child He has given to us. (I just don't want anyone to get the impression that all Christians are in favor of spanking or anything...)

 

Whatever we do to the little ones/"least of these" we do to Him...  (I'm a conservative Catholic and see spanking as an issue of respectful care for the vulnerable and the dignity of every human being.)

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

I had a woman from the church I grew up in (who is commended at how well behaved and successful her children grew up to be) "advise me" I was doing my DD an injustice in not spanking her....I asked what age she starts spanking and she replied "6 months". I nearly vomited. She is labeled successful as a parent b/c all her kids moved out at 18 and either got married right away or went to college. Everyone has their own opinion on when it is "acceptable" to hit a child (or never).

This makes me laugh, in a dark way. My mom's parents wouldn't let her get married or move out at 18. So, she deliberately got pregnant, so they'd have "no choice" (culturally speaking at the time), but to let her get married. The only real reason for that was because she had to get the hell away from her mother and that was the only way she could think of to escape!

[hakeber]

Off topic
 

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

I feel your pain.  I just got a call this morning that my nephew had to be picked up from day-care because he was physically fighting and broke another child's Nintendo DS.  My mom had to go get him and pay $100 for the DS.  When she got there, my nephew lied and said he had not done any of that and the daycare worker was lying.  Then he got up in the daycare worker's face and yelled at her and another child.  My nephew is 8, he has Asperger's and ADHD, and he lives with my brother (his dad) and my parents.  My family is now likely going to shave his head and spank him for the first time in his life because they are absolutely at the end of their rope.  I love my family, and I know that they have tried a lot of other alternatives, as my mom and brother are both generally anti-spanking.  I want to intervene, to help them find another way, but I honestly can't think of anything.  I don't think the spanking will help, I think it will just break the trust he has with his grandfather, and possibly give him a justification for hitting people in the future, but I don't know what to suggest.  It is hard, because parents who are tempted to spank want to see immediate results, which spanking usually gives.  I am not advocating it, I think it gives immediate results because it is scary and painful, but on the surface it seems to "work" at the time it is administered, and my solutions can't compete with that because they require time, dedication, and patience. 

You may want to lurk around the special needs parenting forum.  It has some great ideas for helping kids with Aspergers and ADHD.  I had a student last year with aspergers and the parents over there have a lot of wonderful advice on gentle guidance with kids on the spectrum of these issues.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

ahhh okay.  misread that then.  That makes more sense.

eta: 

Just so you know I wasn't taking it out thin air.  What did you mean to say?

DD1 is still getting hit...by ds2. I'm really not too sure she feels all that great about the fact that her little brother decks her, and then I chat with him, yk?

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 


I can't even read the reviews, I read the first sentence and nearly started bawling. How horrible.

For the record, we are extremely religious, devout Christians who strictly adhere to our Church's teachings... I don't believe God would want me to hurt this sweet child He has given to us. (I just don't want anyone to get the impression that all Christians are in favor of spanking or anything...)

I'm not a Christian, but I certainly know not all Christians believe in spanking. There's that whole website...gentle Christian mothers or something like that?...devoted to childrearing, without spanking, with Christian values.

[dauphinette]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

UMMM seriously? WHAT does that have to do with it not being violent? There are people who get turned on by circ too and it has to be a really tight circ with a dark scar. There are people who get turned on by rape too but well if they like it sooooooo much it must not be violent then right?

I already explained my point which was, once again, that all spanking is not considered violent by all people all of the time like pp proposed.

 

[dauphinette]

Originally Posted by Midwesterner04 

 

Whatever we do to the little ones/"least of these" we do to Him...  (I'm a conservative Catholic and see spanking as an issue of respectful care for the vulnerable and the dignity of every human being.)

Thank you for this comment, it definately gives me something to think about.....I made a promise to myself not to spank several months ago, but I didn't have something concrete to tie it to, but this makes sense to me. 

 

[umsami]

In this situation, I would probably just try and model other alternatives.  So, if you hear your SIL say that to her daugher, I'd probably say something like, "Oh, come hold my hand so you don't get hurt." or "Let's pretend our hands have glue on them and we're stuck together..."   

I would also praise the little girl on her good behavior when you see it. Notice it, so at least she gets some sort of validation.

I also think a book like 1-2-3 Magic, while not ideal IMHO, is a good way to move spankers into non-spankers.  It's a simple method that most parents can get and implement quite easily.  Of course, if the parent says 1-2-3 and then spank the kid on 3, it loses its effectiveness.  
 

Originally Posted by Lady Love 

This has been hard for me lately. I don't know what to do when my SIL tells her two year old daughter that she is going to "bust her" for going near the street. She is only two and has never had any "behavior problems" anyway. What am I supposed to tell my son when he sees his aunt hitting her? It disgusts me! In my DH's family "spanking" is seen as so different than hitting. If I make an issue of it it will cause so much hostility towards me and not help my niece's case...A tough problem.

[AdinaL]

I am going to close this thread so that I can read it all.  I would like to remind everyone that advocating spanking is not something we wish to host.  Discussion of alternatives to spanking, or ways to move toward gentle discipline are welcomed, but advocating for physical punishment is not. 

If you have posted in a manner that is advocating or endorsing spanking or other forms of physical punishment, please edit your post.  I will reopen this thread once I have had a chance to read it thoroughly.  This may take me a couple of days.  If you are unsure about what I mean, please PM me, and I would be happy to have a conversation about what needs editing.

Thank you.