Opinions needed please!

[Babes in arms]

What do you think?  Am I imagining things here?  Getting nervous.  And excited!

 http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/355c1c

 

[Babes in arms]

Bumping this to the top with an update.  There was a .5 degree drop at 8dpo, then a .7 degree rise at 9dpo.  This is my first month of charting so I have nothing to compare this to.  Does this look like an implantation dip in a triphasic chart?  Or are rocky temps common after ovulation?

[monkeyscience]

I think it's definitely a chart with possibilities.

Sorry I can't be more help - I've been charting off and on for 3 years now, but I've only actually temped through one cycle where I O'd on my own, and none where I got pregnant. But I didn't want you to not get any responses!

[SilaMarila]

It could be an implantation dip. Implantation generally occurs between 7-10dpo (but can be as early as 3 and late as 12). So it is definitely possible! This is your first cycle charting, but do you know how long your cycles usually are? Short I am guessing since according to FF you O'd pretty early and are already 9DPO. I would wait until closer to when AF is due to test, especially if it is implantation you need to wait for hcg to go up so it would be detectable. Before O your temps will usually go up and down on a lower scale, after O they usually go up and down on a higher scale. According to TCOYF if you have 18 high temps there is a baby in there! Best of luck!

[Jaimee]

Well, there are some confusing things on your chart.  Your temps partially point to ovulation on CD 12, but your CF and OPK's do not line up with that day.  It would be quite strange to be getting EW CF and OPK+'s after ovulation.  Generally you ovulate 24-36 hours after your peak OPK reading.  Are you using the straight +/- kind or the type that gets gradually darker and then lighter?  It's not typical to have OPK+'s for so many days in a row.  You want to mark only the days that are darker than the control line as positive.  Can you recall which day(s) were your peak days?  And, how confident do you feel about your CF observations?  I see that you didn't mark anything on CD's 9-13, which would be helpful as would data on CD 15.   When you first start observing it can be tricky not to confuse post-BD fluids with CF.  Are you sure that you had EW on CD 14? 

If you are confident about your peak OPK and EW CF on CD14, then I am more inclined to say that you ovulated on CD16.  Your temps on CD13-15 are not significantly higher than your other pre-O temps, either.  O on CD16 would make you 5 DPO today.  Just keep this in mind when you do decide to test.   If you get a BFN in a few days, for example, it could be too early.  Just test again a few days after that.

However, if you're unsure about your OPK's and the EW CF then the temp dip on CD12 is a compelling sign of ovulation (as FF obviously thought).  And the dip on 8 DPO is encouraging, but really not something I would put a lot of stock into.  Usually implantation dips are much more dramatic- dipping well below the cover line.  And not many women actually get implantation dips and I think even fewer women experience triphasic pregnancy charts.

Keep us updated!

[Mosaic]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

If you are confident about your peak OPK and EW CF on CD14, then I am more inclined to say that you ovulated on CD16.  Your temps on CD13-15 are not significantly higher than your other pre-O temps, either.  O on CD16 would make you 5 DPO today

Agreed. I think FF is totally wrong on calling CD12 O day. CD16 makes a lot more sense, and I'm also inclined to ignore CD20's temp as well, since an implantation dip is pretty rare, especially just 4 dpo, and you have a few other outlying temps on your chart as well.

I hope this doesn't sound depressing because that's not at all what I mean to say! It's a very pretty chart, but I would recommend tempering your enthusiasm just a teensy bit so that you don't go crazy waiting until you can test!

[Babes in arms]

None of this is depressing (unless I'm facing another loss).  We weren't even officially TTCing yet.  We were charting and supplementing to make sure my progesterone levels are healthy before we TTC.  

To answer some of your questions, my cycles tend to be 24-26 days at the longest.  So, if I'm Oing around day 10-12 and having a 14 day LP it would all add up.  I've never had a really long cycle so I doubt that O was much later in my cycle, but I really have no idea.  It's possible that the supplements I'm on have my cycle doing things that aren't historically normal for me.  The OPKs are the 2 line variety.  The days I marked as positive had a test line darker than the control line.  I know that the first test is supposed to give me my O window, but I kept testing out of curiosity.  I'm relatively certain about the EWCM.  Also, I tend to start my period in the afternoon which makes me think I probably O then too.  Couldn't I have Oed on day 10 in the afternoon?  The test on cd11 would have caught the surge, and my temp would have had a chance to jump by then right?  Thank you so much for the opinions. I need extra voices in my head right now.  :)

[RosieL]

Originally Posted by Babes in arms 
.... Couldn't I have Oed on day 10 in the afternoon?  The test on cd11 would have caught the surge, and my temp would have had a chance to jump by then right?  Thank you so much for the opinions. I need extra voices in my head right now.  :)

You O *after* your first positive OPK, so I would expect you to O on the 12th if you're looking at OPKs alone. Since LH behaves as a surge of hormones, you might have peaked between cd12-13, and O'd on the day 14. Adding the EWCF notation, and I would agree with PPs that you O'd later than FF is telling you. In any case, the good part is that you O'd at all! :) Good like for your TWW.

[Babes in arms]

My thought was that I Oed on day 10 in the afternoon, but tested in the morning.  I may have had EWCF earlier, but wasn't checking it because I'm not sure that I can identify it when we've been BDing.  

[Jaimee]

I see FF changed your crosshairs to dashed lines as it is now uncertain, too.  It's odd to get EW during your LP so it's questioning what's going on.  I also see spotting throughout your LP... is that normal for you and one of the things you're hoping to fix with the supplements?  Since this your first chart you actually don't know how long your LP is.  So, it's quite possible that you do have a short LP if your progesterone is low.  Just to put things in perspective, I do not have low progesterone and my average LP is only 10 days.   I hope you don't mind me asking... how far along were you when you m/c?
 

Originally Posted by Babes in arms 

My thought was that I Oed on day 10 in the afternoon, but tested in the morning.  I may have had EWCF earlier, but wasn't checking it because I'm not sure that I can identify it when we've been BDing.  

It's important to try and distinguish between CF and BD-fluids so you get as accurate a chart as possible.   The way I do this is to do kegels directly after DTD (if CTA) or a few hours after DTD (if TTC).  A few hours is plenty of time for the sperm to get where they need to go, so doing kegels later does not affect your changes of TTC.  Really work those kegels for a few minutes over the toilet to get all the excess semen down and out.  I find that I have no semen spotting if I do this and can get an accurate CF reading the next day.  Additionally semen acts a bit different than EWCF if you get it on your fingers and try to stretch it.  It's wetter and less stretchy than EW. 

O'ing on CD10 is extremely unlikely with all those OPK+'s days later and with the temp dip on CD12.  Some women do have a fall back pattern, but it's not common and with your other signs, not likely for you.  If you did O on CD10 you should be able to test now.  Otherwise I would wait another week or so to test.  

Charting takes some practice so if you don't get that BFP this cycle the positive thing is that you'll have a chart under your belt to help you with the next cycle.    Keep us updated!!
 

[Babes in arms]

Thank you so much for taking the time to go over this with me.  With the miscarriages, I was usually 4-6 weeks along.  Twice, I was 7.  Early spotting has only ever happened for me at implantation or the night before AF comes.  So far today, no spotting. (fingers crossed)

I had lots of signs of low progesterone which is why I'm supplementing.  Short cycles, hair loss, collagen issues, early repeated miscarriages, etc.  We're charting and supplementing and testing (although the progesterone test came in 2 days after I needed it which means I have to wait another month to test) and hoping to get this all figured out before we actually conceive so we can feel confident about not losing another baby.  

I will definitely try doing kegels after DTD.  I feel confident identifying CF otherwise, but when there's semen mixed in I have no idea.  I guess that will take practice.  I *know* that I had EWCF last night.  There's been no DTD since I O'ed cause DP is OOT.  

ETA- What else besides low progesterone can cause a short LP?

Edited by Babes in arms - 6/8/11 at 7:52am

[Jaimee]

Well, I don't know for sure, but I don't think that anything besides low or fluctuating/out of balance progesterone causes a short LP.   What can vary is what is causing the progesterone problem in the first place. 

For me, it was being underweight and therefore tweaking my diet and exercise routine helped elongate mine, which was often less than 10 when I first started charting.  I also supplemented with vitamin B6.  As progesterone and estrogen are stored in fat, I know that being overweight can also cause issues.

I know that vitex has helped a lot of women get their hormones in balance, but it is generally not quick fix (often taking 6 months to see results).  I know there are a lot of threads about this so you could try doing some searches for other ideas. 

[Babes in arms]

Ok. That makes sense.  I'm not underweight, but I've been veg for 12 years and had inadvertently cut nearly all fat out of my diet.  I kinda looked up one day with a handful of hair around my fingers and had a light bulb go off.  I've added flaxseed oil, vit E and a daily avocado which has brought a welcome inch or two to my middle.  

[JMJ]

Ahhh... no fat in your diet would make it really difficult for you to have healthy cycles.  Olive oil, nuts, and coconut oil would all be very important for you.  Also, if you eat a lot of soy, you might consider cutting back.  I think that ovulation around CD 10-12 sounds reasonable, but you're not getting a consistent upward thermal shift.  Your temperature drops pretty low three times, and you're still getting more-fertile type mucus.  Because of this, it is difficult to declare with certainty what your O date is or even that you O'ed at all.  It looks pretty likely that you are in the 2WW, and the spotting you're experiencing could be pre-period or implantation bleeding.  Time will tell.