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Someone Please Fill Me In On Intactivism?

post #1 of 96
Thread Starter 

I would really like further education on why it is looked down on by some to have a boy circumcised and what sorts of risks are involved, just so if this baby is a boy, I can make a rational decision about it. Thanks in advance!

 

PS: I had my 4 year old son circumcised, and he did fine. If I choose not to circumcise another boy, I need to know how to detir any negativity between siblings if that situation comes about. Thanks!

post #2 of 96

You should check out the circ board here on Mothering.  I'm pretty sure that all circ related conversations are supposed to happen there.  :)

post #3 of 96

 

It makes me happy when someone wants to get informed about circumcision!  Good for you. 

 

My husband is circumcised.  He never really thought much about it until we were going to have a baby together (my 2nd), and I told him the true facts about it.  The foreskin has really important protective and sexual functions. His glans is calloused instead of smooth and supple like it should be, because it is no longer covered.  Erections pull his skin very tight.  He lost tens of thousands of nerve endings. We both lost the gliding action of the foreskin.  His mother was told it had to be done, or he'd get cancer, which of course is not true.  So he's not mad at her... she was uninformed back when he was born.  It wasn't easy to get the information back then.  But a lot was taken from him without his consent, and we both wish he had his foreskin.

 

And that is really the heart of it for both of us, now.  Our children have a right to their whole bodies.  We as their parents are their caretakers, and we don't have the right to alter their bodies for any kind of personal preference.  Though honestly, now having seen my sons the way they were meant to be, the circumcised penis looks... naked to me!  In a natural penis, the glans is covered unless the man is ready for sex- and yikes. I don't want to see my boys that way!

 

Here are a couple of sites to get you started: http://www.thewholenetwork.org/the-library.html 

 

This is Dr. Momma's blog site: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/02/dr-dean-edell-statement-on-circumcision.html#uds-search-results   For some reason I can't get the search function to work there, to come up with all of her posts about circumcision.  But there is tons of excellent information on there (on circ and other topics), so please poke around and read some more.

 

And of course, there is MDC's own Case Against Circumcision forum.  I would suggest going to the other sites and getting some research done, and then if you still have questions, go to CAC.  You probably don't want to go in as a complete newbie, as some people complain that the regular posters there are so passionate about the cause as to be harsh to the uninformed.  I don't think that is really true, so much as it can be hard for people who are just learning the truth to have this complete paradigm shift (what I thought was good is actually... bad?  how can this be???)

 

The advice  on siblings that's usually given in there is that you'd say something like "When you (ds1) were born, the doctors told us this was best for you.  By the time ds2 came along, we had more information and decided it wasn't necessary."  Personally if I had circumcised my son, I would give him information about restoring his foreskin, when he came of age.

 

post #4 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lula's Mom View Post

 

It makes me happy when someone wants to get informed about circumcision!  Good for you. 

 

My husband is circumcised.  He never really thought much about it until we were going to have a baby together (my 2nd), and I told him the true facts about it.  The foreskin has really important protective and sexual functions. His glans is calloused instead of smooth and supple like it should be, because it is no longer covered.  Erections pull his skin very tight.  He lost tens of thousands of nerve endings. We both lost the gliding action of the foreskin.  His mother was told it had to be done, or he'd get cancer, which of course is not true.  So he's not mad at her... she was uninformed back when he was born.  It wasn't easy to get the information back then.  But a lot was taken from him without his consent, and we both wish he had his foreskin.

 

And that is really the heart of it for both of us, now.  Our children have a right to their whole bodies.  We as their parents are their caretakers, and we don't have the right to alter their bodies for any kind of personal preference.  Though honestly, now having seen my sons the way they were meant to be, the circumcised penis looks... naked to me!  In a natural penis, the glans is covered unless the man is ready for sex- and yikes. I don't want to see my boys that way!

 

Here are a couple of sites to get you started: http://www.thewholenetwork.org/the-library.html 

 

This is Dr. Momma's blog site: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/02/dr-dean-edell-statement-on-circumcision.html#uds-search-results   For some reason I can't get the search function to work there, to come up with all of her posts about circumcision.  But there is tons of excellent information on there (on circ and other topics), so please poke around and read some more.

 

And of course, there is MDC's own Case Against Circumcision forum.  I would suggest going to the other sites and getting some research done, and then if you still have questions, go to CAC.  You probably don't want to go in as a complete newbie, as some people complain that the regular posters there are so passionate about the cause as to be harsh to the uninformed.  I don't think that is really true, so much as it can be hard for people who are just learning the truth to have this complete paradigm shift (what I thought was good is actually... bad?  how can this be???)

 

The advice  on siblings that's usually given in there is that you'd say something like "When you (ds1) were born, the doctors told us this was best for you.  By the time ds2 came along, we had more information and decided it wasn't necessary."  Personally if I had circumcised my son, I would give him information about restoring his foreskin, when he came of age.

 



Thank you so much for this info! I will look into it extensively and decide from there. I really appreciate the input. thumb.gif

 

post #5 of 96

In a somewhat harsh way, this is how I finally convinced my DH against circumcision.  Before this he really didn't even want to get informed.

 

I made him sit down and watch THIS video.  I told him that if he can get through it and still thinks that circumcision is okay, then we'd talk.  He made it about 20 seconds into the video and BEGGED me to turn it off.  He said that it hurt his soul.  This, coupled with a little more information he's completely against circ.  :)

 

post #6 of 96

Ugh... I have to get into this now. I was really hoping to avoid it as I have so far (girls!) Obviously, I am against circ, but I am so not in the mood to convince dp. He has the typical argument that our son will look weird and not look like him. I never get that argument... everyone makes it! Is there some secret penis showing men do with each other that I am unaware of?! Why is this even an issue?!

 

Lula's Mom, I went into the whole sexual function thing and dp thought I was being gross. He thought it was weird to be concerned with our son's future sex life. Guess that argument is out! lol

 

I know we will end up not circing in the end. I know  it sounds snotty, but I'm pretty good at getting my way. orngtongue.gif

post #7 of 96
Thread Starter 

TalkToMeNow, guys see each other in the locker room changing or in the shower. I was reading a study from 2007 last night about not circumcising, and I guess less than 10% of men are circumcised in the UK. So it's the norm in other countries. In America, 75% of men ARE circumcised. It seems like it's more of an American thing? Not sure. I am more leaning toward not circumcising now. :)

post #8 of 96

There is also some information on Code Name Mama's blog (who I think comes on this forum as well, but I don't mind blowing her trumpet).  It is www.codenamemama.com.

 

This is an interesting discussion to read, because where I am from, in the UK, circumcision is restricted to certain cultures and it is not at all the "norm".  I read details of the "medical benefits" with some confusion because here it is just not an issue.  Uncircumcised men certainly do not experience any medical problems.  So I think my point is that it is essentially a cultural practice, and your decision is perhaps about whether to defy the "norm" or not.  One thing I'm really glad of is that I don't have to face this decision, and I hope you reach a conclusion that you feel content with.

 

PS Lula's Mom's description of a calloused penis is freaking me out.  I've never seen a real life circumcised penis, but it sounds unpleasant.

post #9 of 96

PS I just read your post IWannaBeAnRN and yes it's really uncommon in the UK!  Sorry, I posted at precisely the same moment as you!

post #10 of 96
Thread Starter 

Munchymom, do you think the statistic I gave for the UK is accurate? I try to take online info with a grain of salt.

 

Edited after your 2nd post. lol Okay. I was wondering how accurate it was haha

post #11 of 96

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN View Post
PS: I had my 4 year old son circumcised, and he did fine. If I choose not to circumcise another boy, I need to know how to detir any negativity between siblings if that situation comes about. Thanks!

It's way more than "doing fine" through the procedure, as I'm sure you know at this point.  I think it's great you came here to get more info instead of just following suit.  smile.gif  As others have said, check out the circ forum here for a ton of info.  I also used www.circumcision.org.  I like to come at it from the other direction... why do it?  The majority of the world sees no reason to do it... why do Americans think this is still a good idea?   What would be your reason or your dh's reason to do it?  Look at it from that angle when reading info and then see if your reasons make sense anymore.  It's okay to change your mind with subsequent sons- there is never a bad time to break the cycle.

post #12 of 96
DDDC

I just wanted to add that while, yes 75% of men in the United States are currently circed, that number is rapidly declining as this the current generation of child bearing women are becoming more educated about it. In 2009, on 32% of newborn boys were circed. So its likely that in your (possible) son's generation, a circed boy would be the minority in the locker room.

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/
post #13 of 96

That reminded me of the two Mothering Magazine articles about circing that you can now read online:

 

Cutting Kids

 

Protect Your Uncircumcised Son

 

There was also one about the AIDS myth, not sure if that one is available online or not.

post #14 of 96

Another risk (probably mentioned in the links given above by others) is that corrective surgery will be needed later because of meatal stenosis or other problems. It's a lot more common than you'd think because it's kind of a hush-hush thing to most people, but there's a significant chance of a circumcised boy needing a second surgery to fix problems caused by the circ.

post #15 of 96
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaBreadGirl View Post

Another risk (probably mentioned in the links given above by others) is that corrective surgery will be needed later because of meatal stenosis or other problems. It's a lot more common than you'd think because it's kind of a hush-hush thing to most people, but there's a significant chance of a circumcised boy needing a second surgery to fix problems caused by the circ.



My poor cousin had to be recut cuz when he was 4, he would get frequent erections(tmi, sorry) and it pulled on the part where it grew back. He was in SOOO much pain!

post #16 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN View Post

TalkToMeNow, guys see each other in the locker room changing or in the shower. I was reading a study from 2007 last night about not circumcising, and I guess less than 10% of men are circumcised in the UK. So it's the norm in other countries. In America, 75% of men ARE circumcised. It seems like it's more of an American thing? Not sure. I am more leaning toward not circumcising now. :)


I know they do, but still... It seems like an odd reason to me. I guess I'm just not a guy so I can't understand!! smile.gif
post #17 of 96
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

DDDC

I just wanted to add that while, yes 75% of men in the United States are currently circed, that number is rapidly declining as this the current generation of child bearing women are becoming more educated about it. In 2009, on 32% of newborn boys were circed. So its likely that in your (possible) son's generation, a circed boy would be the minority in the locker room.

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/


This is good info, as the study I read was from the year after his birth. I wish I could get my older son's circ reversed before he went through high school.

post #18 of 96

Im not a person who has strong opinions either way- but I want to add my 2 cents that when I looked into circ on this website I found ALL of the info to be very one-sided. If your looking for a two sided view or statistics, this probably is not the place to be doing your research.

post #19 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashley111 View Post

Im not a person who has strong opinions either way- but I want to add my 2 cents that when I looked into circ on this website I found ALL of the info to be very one-sided. If your looking for a two sided view or statistics, this probably is not the place to be doing your research.

[/quote














Agreed. This website is not pro genital mutilation, so you should look for information elsewhere if you are looking for thast point of view.
post #20 of 96

Comments like that make conversations like these arguments instead of conversations.  We are all grown ups who live in a world where we logically know people have differing points of view- being adult enough to get past those things is important in forming relationships and bonds with people we consider our support group- including people on this board.

 

I would never, ever want somebody to feel as though their opinion or feelings were not welcome here.  Our goal should be to be supportive to each other regardless of differing opinions- using crude terms and being rude wont make some people feel welcome.

 

I'm just stating what I noticed- this particular forum is biased one way, if you feel like you want to be educated on both points of view going elsewhere is a better option. 

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