Someone Please Fill Me In On Intactivism? - Page 2

[Lula's Mom]

Well, yeah the information on MDC is going to read as anti-circumcision only. Peggy O'Mara, the owner of MDC and former publisher of the magazine is against routine infant circumcision.  So it's written into the User Agreement that MDC does not host pro-circumcision discussions. I don't really see the circumcision debate as a matter of differing opinions.  But if we're being honest, shouldn't the owner of the penis have the only opinion that matters?  And he can make decisions about his body when he's an adult

And the thing is, when you get down and dig into the information and actual research that's out there, you start to see why MDC does not host pro-circumcision stuff... the arguments for circumcision and the myths of cleanliness, STDs, UTIs, and appearance that have surrounded it for so many years are being debunked left and right.  People are learning the facts not just here, but from sites that are popping up all over!  When I learned the latest stats that 2/3 of U.S. boys are being left intact now, I just celebrated.  The word is spreading, hooray!

IwannaBanRN- so happy you are leaning that way! 

[Katico]

Ok, I just have to share, because I feel so silly

All this time I have been reading it on MDC  as InACTtivism...not inTACTivism...and I was like....what the heck are people talking about?  Inactivism? 

Wow....it literally took me years to get it 

[Ratchet]

I am not pro-circumcision and i would not choose to have a son circumcised, after watching it done hundreds of times (without complications in those cases, sure, but not appropriate/humane to do to an infant).  That being said, I think that if you are looking for both sides, the debate that you will hear, and that IS gaining ground among many pediatric and infectious disease folks, is that we are seeing more and more research that does show that circumcision reduces transmission of HPV and HIV.  That matters in the countries where HIV rates are sky high, like Africa where that research is coming from.  That probably doesn't matter in the US, and it certainly doesn't mean circumcision is an alternative to using condoms or something, but you don't know where your son will be decades from now and doing what with whom.  Mothering did have an article about this, but as I recall it was in line with the above statement.   I think the balance for this is to leave the decision up to the son.  

I think it is important to know the reasons (beyond just "his father wants him to like like him"-- crazy, since in my mind the biggest difference between and adult penis and a baby/toddler penis sure aint the foreskin) that people might present you with so you can feel solid in your decision.

[Adaline'sMama]

Im truly sorry if I offended anyone. However, while I agree that the words "genital mutilation" are crude, that is exactly what it is.

[Lula's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ratchet 

That being said, I think that if you are looking for both sides, the debate that you will hear, and that IS gaining ground among many pediatric and infectious disease folks, is that we are seeing more and more research that does show that circumcision reduces transmission of HPV and HIV.  That matters in the countries where HIV rates are sky high, like Africa where that research is coming from.  That probably doesn't matter in the US, and it certainly doesn't mean circumcision is an alternative to using condoms or something, but you don't know where your son will be decades from now and doing what with whom.  Mothering did have an article about this, but as I recall it was in line with the above statement.   I think the balance for this is to leave the decision up to the son.  

Yes to that! I wouldn't have wanted anyone to make the decision to cut my genitals because they felt I couldn't be trusted to make safe-sex decisions 20 years in the future. I've read that there was a study that showed victims of FGM were also less likely to contract HIV.  If it's good for boys, why not girls, right?    

The HIV studies are nowhere near as slamdunk as the media likes to present them.  The physicians' group Doctors Opposing Circumcision made a statement about this:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/HIVStatement.html  Here is part of it:

Opposing evidence. Both the public and the medical community must guard against being overwhelmed by the hyperbolic promotion of male circumcision and must receive these new studies with extreme caution. There is contradictory evidence that male circumcision is not as effective as proponents claim. One study found that male circumcision had no protective effect for women⁵¹ and another study found that male circumcision increased risk for women.⁵² Grosskurth found more HIV infection in circumcised men.⁵³ Barongo et al. found no evidence that lack of circumcision is a risk factor for HIV infection.⁵⁴ A study from India found little difference between circumcised and non-circumcised men in the conjugal relationship.⁵⁵ A study carried out in South Africa found that male circumcision offered only a slight protective effect.⁵⁶ A study carried out among American naval personnel found no difference in the incidence of HIV infection between non-circumcised and circumcised men.⁵⁷ 

The United States has huge numbers of circumcised adults, and also a horrible HIV infection track record.  It clearly is not protective here.  And for what it's worth, I got HPV (genital warts, yay!) at age 19 from a circumcised boyfriend.  HPV is pretty much epidemic, and it doesn't discriminate between intact or circumcised. 

[LiLStar]

circumcision actually increases male to female HIV transmission. That particular finding was hushed up. MDC may be biased against RIC, and I don't think being biased source of information is a bad thing. When was the last time you saw an "unbiased" source that you thought provided quality information? And I'm not just talking about the circ debate. Something about trying to be unbiased leads to censoring of facts so as to not appear unbalanced. MDC is biased against RIC because the facts are biased against RIC. 

[IwannaBanRN]

LilStar, I could care less about if MDC was against circ or not. When I first got here I was pro-circ, but all I cared about was learning about giving birth at home and getting the support that I need for it. MDC is pro-natural birth! MDC is pro-green mothers. I seriously would have thought twice if MDC were preaching Satanism, but Pro-circ is HARMLESS.(literally lol) And now that I know MORE, I am seriously thinking twice about "America's norm." Why is it the norm? Why, if it STARTED as a religious practice, is it not sacred anymore, but common practice? These are the questions I have always asked myself. Why isn't circumcision a sacred practice, like a baptism if it derived from the church?

[Code Name Mama]

I'm glad I read this whole thread before responding, I think many of the things I was going to say have already been said

IWannaBanRUN - I have a couple of friends who have circ'd their first son and not circ'd their second. I am happy to put you in touch via email, they would gladly help address your concerns about your sons being different.

I'm going to message you with several posts I've written about leaving boys intact. If anyone else is interested, message me!

[Lula's Mom]

The history of circumcision in America is bizarre, IMO! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision#Male_circumcision_to_prevent_masturbation 

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom 

The history of circumcision in America is bizarre, IMO! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision#Male_circumcision_to_prevent_masturbation 

I haven't read the link yet, BUT I saw what the link SAID! lol IMO if a guy has something to hold onto, he's going to play with it and see if it feels good. lol Female masturbation in some countries is prevented by female circumcision. The people that practice this, also say it prevents their women from going outside of their marriage if sex does not feel good.

[sosurreal09]

Don't forget female circ was started in the US just like male circ to "prevent masturbation" BUT female circ was outlawed in the last 80s. There are groups trying to fight for the same outlawing of males. I understand not being informed the first time. That is very common. I think everyone should just inform themselves about what is really going on here with circ. Also want to add that a traditional religious circ was not amputation but rather a small slit exposing the head, there was not foreskin removal.

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

Don't forget female circ was started in the US just like male circ to "prevent masturbation" BUT female circ was outlawed in the last 80s. There are groups trying to fight for the same outlawing of males. I understand not being informed the first time. That is very common. I think everyone should just inform themselves about what is really going on here with circ. Also want to add that a traditional religious circ was not amputation but rather a small slit exposing the head, there was not foreskin removal.

So true, it will be on the November ballot in San Fransisco this year.

[IwannaBanRN]

This is all fine and dandy but what do I do to convince DP to not have our son cut if we have a boy?

[Ratchet]

maybe watching the video of a circ would help (unless he's already seen a circ in which case it wouldn't be a surprise I guess).

[granolamommy3]

I would suggest having your DP read the Cutting Kids article from Mothering Magazine. I was preggo with my son (our first child) when my husband and I began discussing the circ or not to circ debate. I had never heard of Mothering Magazine at the time, and I was walking past the magazine rack at my favorite local health food store, when I noticed a picture of a baby on a magazine. Part of the large print read: Cutting Kid: The Circumcision Debate. I immediately picked it up and read it to my husband on the way home. The debate was over. We had made our decision. I was so glad that we had the opportunity to be truly educated on this topic. I wish you luck with your DP. I know this can be a touchy subject.

[KaliShanti]

My DH & I JUST decided this week to not circ our next baby if it's a boy. I just read a; the info, but you know what? All my DH had to hear was how the intact foreskin increase sexual pleasure. That was it- he is now ill at the thought of circumcising. We DID circ our 1st son and I wish we hadn't though.

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by KaliShanti 

My DH & I JUST decided this week to not circ our next baby if it's a boy. I just read a; the info, but you know what? All my DH had to hear was how the intact foreskin increase sexual pleasure. That was it- he is now ill at the thought of circumcising. We DID circ our 1st son and I wish we hadn't though.

That had me ROLLING! My DP and your DH are almost one in the same! I think I'll just throw that little piece of info out there.

[sosurreal09]

When I first mentioned it to DH he was kind of put off b/c he was circ. Then I pointed out his scar and said that's what it was from. Also he has tight skin b/c they didn't do it right. He is sensitive about it but still thought it had to be done. I showed him the 50 celebs that aren't circ'ed (there is a link on MDC somewhere) and he saw a lot of guys he liked weren't circ'ed then I showed him men who were mad they were circ'ed and then he realized it was ok for him to be pissed too...You lose a ton of sexual function from circ and that really sucks.

Recently Russel Crowe tweeted how barbaric circ is and is really upset people do it. He was in Gladiator so a lot of guys like him lol. http://celebritybabyscoop.com/2011/06/10/russell-crowe-circumcision-is-barbaric-stupid

Also made him watch the video and read about the psychological damage circ can have. Ultimately though he trusts me and knows I want what is best for our kids and he was not too hard to win over b/c of this.

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

When I first mentioned it to DH he was kind of put off b/c he was circ. Then I pointed out his scar and said that's what it was from. Also he has tight skin b/c they didn't do it right. He is sensitive about it but still thought it had to be done. I showed him the 50 celebs that aren't circ'ed (there is a link on MDC somewhere) and he saw a lot of guys he liked weren't circ'ed then I showed him men who were mad they were circ'ed and then he realized it was ok for him to be pissed too...You lose a ton of sexual function from circ and that really sucks.

Recently Russel Crowe tweeted how barbaric circ is and is really upset people do it. He was in Gladiator so a lot of guys like him lol. http://celebritybabyscoop.com/2011/06/10/russell-crowe-circumcision-is-barbaric-stupid

Also made him watch the video and read about the psychological damage circ can have. Ultimately though he trusts me and knows I want what is best for our kids and he was not too hard to win over b/c of this.

You know, I am starting to wonder if circ can cause erectile disfunction in older men! Since the percentage was so much higher back then of males being circumcised.

And I am SO proud of Russell Crowe for standing up for what he believes in! I knew he wasn't a stud muffin for nothin'.
 

[sosurreal09]

It is proven that circ reduces the number of years a man can function sexually...