participation way down? - Page 7

[annettemarie]

One last thing-- that Chris person who answered as Mothering should be fired, IMO. For someone to post something under the guise of Mothering that is so diametrically opposed to what MDC stands for and then further defend it just shows that this person has zero clue as to what MDC is all about. I looked on the Huddler website and it seems to be run by a bunch of rich white guys. Rich white guys are great and all, but it seems a bit of a stretch to have them choosing content for this board. Are they the one doing the poorly worded Facebook threads as well?

It's like giving Ezzo the keys and the password!
Edited by annettemarie - 6/14/11 at 6:47pm

[eepster]

Originally Posted by Arduinna 

But it is so amusing to see all the old crowd who never post, come out of the wood work to post on them after the threads hit the MDC spin off forums. 

I think it says something pretty clearly.  That what made many of us be active members here was not the way the forums were organized or the face book links, but that we wanted to see each other, that we made friends, that we liked each other.  When we moved on, we stuck together with each other.  People (aka posters) are what really make a forum.

I know Cynthia said, that numbers of new people coming to view MDC was up, but are they staying and joining and participating.

[jeanine123]

It seems that controversial advertising being posted without the prior knowledge of the Mothering staff is not a new thing.  Take this thread from 2005 for instance.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/313802/bummed-out-by-the-banner

I have a lot of trouble understanding the reasoning behind giving up what seems to be complete control and knowledge of what is being advertised and promoted with the official Mothering user name.  This is the community's public face and there is no knowledge of what is being said until numerous people raise a ruckus?  I'd wonder if it was a recent development but as indicated by the thread I linked to above, it doesn't seem to be.  Do the admins/moderators here have any clue what is being presented on the official Facebook page and how it relates to the inclusive atmosphere that is supposedly a goal here as per the UA?  Or if that another case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing, in the case of Facebook provoking many homophobic remarks that remain to this day on Mothering's wall.  Has money really become so important that anything goes when it comes to advertising dollars? 

[fullofgrace]

I can tell you that moderators only find out these things at the same time as you.

I can't answer for the Admins or Mothering staff, though.

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

It sounds as if what is being said is that Mothering/Peggy/admin/mods no longer hold the reigns to Mothering-- Huddler does. I could be misreading it, but that's what it sounds like.

No, that's not what is being said. We do have people handling our advertising. That was one of the perks of moving to Huddler was someone who would do that. 

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

One last thing-- that Chris person who answered as Mothering should be fired, IMO. For someone to post something under the guise of Mothering that is so diametrically opposed to what MDC stands for and then further defend it just shows that this person has zero clue as to what MDC is all about. I looked on the Huddler website and it seems to be run by a bunch of rich white guys. Rich white guys are great and all, but it seems a bit of a stretch to have them choosing content for this board. Are they the one doing the poorly worded Facebook threads as well?

It's like giving Ezzo the keys and the password!

Which poorly worded Facebook posts are you referring to? You could PM me those if you like. I don't know who made them, but I think only a couple people post to facebook, and none of them are Huddler employees.

Originally Posted by jeanine123 

It seems that controversial advertising being posted without the prior knowledge of the Mothering staff is not a new thing.  Take this thread from 2005 for instance.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/313802/bummed-out-by-the-banner

I have a lot of trouble understanding the reasoning behind giving up what seems to be complete control and knowledge of what is being advertised and promoted with the official Mothering user name.  This is the community's public face and there is no knowledge of what is being said until numerous people raise a ruckus?  I'd wonder if it was a recent development but as indicated by the thread I linked to above, it doesn't seem to be.  Do the admins/moderators here have any clue what is being presented on the official Facebook page and how it relates to the inclusive atmosphere that is supposedly a goal here as per the UA?  Or if that another case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing, in the case of Facebook provoking many homophobic remarks that remain to this day on Mothering's wall.  Has money really become so important that anything goes when it comes to advertising dollars? 

That was a long time ago. Ads then were often sold by magazine folks, and then tacked onto MDC as well.  So yeah, someone sold something, and then it was put up here, and we didn't catch it until someone else brought it to our attention.  I wasn't an admin then, but I was a mod at the time.  

Now we have Huddler handling our ads, and again, something that someone thought was a valid charity, was in fact not.  

I do post to Facebook, but I am not the only one.  Other than the commentary on the GLBTQ month post (which has been cleaned up, to my knowledge)  was there something else?  

[annettemarie]

Adina, I meant the posts here that were started just to post to Facebook.Specifically, the "whites are victims of racism" one.

And thanks for the clarification!

Also, thanks to whoever posted The Old Schoolhouse thread. We used to be awesome.

[jeanine123]

How has the Facebook post been cleared up?  As far as I can tell, the most inflammatory homophobic responses are still there but the ones questioning why those remain were removed.

And the example I posted may have been a while ago but the same problems are still occuring.  Someone has been hired to handle advertising.  They have no idea who they're advertising for and go out and sell ads that are diametrically opposed to the purported stance of this community and the people who are in charge here are none the wiser until the members raise a stink and damage has been done and trust is broken.  It appears to be a rather disturbing pattern.  There was another incident of inappropriate ads being run in the Lactivism forum as well a couple or so years ago. 

I know that this is ultimately a business and as such money needs to be made or everything goes away, I just wonder at what price should that money be generated?  As much railing as there is against mainstream ideals, these examples of raising advertising revenue at what appears to be any cost isn't any different IMO than mainstream methods.  Isn't there a way to retain enough control over how advertising revenue is generated that Mothering can avoid selling out to whomever has the most money, ideals/goals/values be damned?

And thank you very, very much for answering these questions to the best of your ability and addressing as many concerns as you can.  I know it isn't easy and I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates being given the chance to hammer this out candidly.

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

Adina, I meant the posts here that were started just to post to Facebook.Specifically, the "whites are victims of racism" one.

And thanks for the clarification!

Also, thanks to whoever posted The Old Schoolhouse thread. We used to be awesome.

Those posts are started by Cynthia or I.  Sometime we think something will be a better conversation than it will.  That study was interesting, the conversation didn't quite go the way we expected it to.  Kind of like it might have gone if a member had posted the same thing.
 

Originally Posted by jeanine123 

How has the Facebook post been cleared up?  As far as I can tell, the most inflammatory homophobic responses are still there but the ones questioning why those remain were removed.

And the example I posted may have been a while ago but the same problems are still occuring.  Someone has been hired to handle advertising.  They have no idea who they're advertising for and go out and sell ads that are diametrically opposed to the purported stance of this community and the people who are in charge here are none the wiser until the members raise a stink and damage has been done and trust is broken.  It appears to be a rather disturbing pattern.  There was another incident of inappropriate ads being run in the Lactivism forum as well a couple or so years ago. 

I know that this is ultimately a business and as such money needs to be made or everything goes away, I just wonder at what price should that money be generated?  As much railing as there is against mainstream ideals, these examples of raising advertising revenue at what appears to be any cost isn't any different IMO than mainstream methods.  Isn't there a way to retain enough control over how advertising revenue is generated that Mothering can avoid selling out to whomever has the most money, ideals/goals/values be damned?

And thank you very, very much for answering these questions to the best of your ability and addressing as many concerns as you can.  I know it isn't easy and I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates being given the chance to hammer this out candidly.

I just checked the facebook post, and with the exception of one that I removed just now, there were no responses that were homophobic.  There were still responses to the other comments that had been removed, which were supportive in nature.  You can shoot me a PM with what you see as still problematic and I will look at them further.

We're still working on advertising.  We have only been with Huddler and their ad folks since November.  We are a unique community for them, and we are still learning what works and what doesn't.  As Cynthia stated, we will be reviewing ads in the future to ensure this doesn't happen again.  

[SneakyPie]

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

One last thing-- that Chris person who answered as Mothering should be fired, IMO. For someone to post something under the guise of Mothering that is so diametrically opposed to what MDC stands for and then further defend it just shows that this person has zero clue as to what MDC is all about. I looked on the Huddler website and it seems to be run by a bunch of rich white guys. Rich white guys are great and all, but it seems a bit of a stretch to have them choosing content for this board. Are they the one doing the poorly worded Facebook threads as well?

It's like giving Ezzo the keys and the password!

Well said as always AM.

Jeez, Peggy, if you're going to jump ship on your own business, at least do it honorably and just take it down.  Don't sell it to someone who has no clue what NFL is even about (and doesn't care) for a tiny bit of money and then leave volunteers to make excuses for you.

[kmeyrick]

I'm glad MDC is taking steps to make sure such ads never show up again. I'm just surprised that it wasn't policy to review them beforehand, particularly if their name is going to be attached to it. That takes quite a lot of faith in the universe.

Will the old school MDCers ever come back? I doubt it, since they have moved on and found other places to go. I think new groups can revive MDC itself if they aren't turned off by clumsy interface, creepy ads, etc.

[Cynthia Mosher]

It was a policy beforehand that we review all advertising. This new person failed to observe the policy. That's what led to the incident. 

[SneakyPie]

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher 

It was a policy beforehand that we review all advertising. This new person failed to observe the policy. That's what led to the incident. 

Way to heap all the blame on the new employee in public - so professional!  Admit it - you and Peggy dropped the ball AGAIN, because you're all tired of Mothering, and are looking around for a scapegoat while you try to pay the last few bills.  Just pull the damn plug already.  We'll miss the community but this is a joke.

[Cynthia Mosher]

My post was a specific answer to this:

I'm just surprised that it wasn't policy to review them beforehand, particularly if their name is going to be attached to it. That takes quite a lot of faith in the universe.

The policy that we review all ads prior to them going live on the site was put in place before this incident occurred. The person who posted the ad, the person who responded to the complaint about the ad that members were asking us about, is the one who failed to observe the policy. This is an explanation because we are being asked to explain how it happened. We've been asked to be transparent about issues that occur so we are trying to be. 

Stuff happens. Anyone on staff could post something as an official voice of Mothering and it be wrong. There are just some things we can't control every aspect of so stuff will happen no matter how much we try to put things into place so that they it doesn't. Is that dropping the ball? I don't think so. It's the reality of running a large site and having a lot of different people doing things in different capacities and errors being made and policies not being followed as they should. 

[purslaine]

I think you lost some people over the years to heavy modding.

I think you lost a lot of people at the format change.  Many find it really slow, and have quoting issues, etc.  I have not really had these issues, but many do.

I think you may be losing people at the moment over poor decisions, often related to marketing.  I do not want sponsored ads in forums, I do not want experts flogging their site, their phone consultations etc.  Yesterday I received an email from mothering with the subject being getting a certain percent off on a certain item.  I searched my email history - I have never had an email solicitation before from Mothering.    I think forums and advertising should be kept strictly separate.  Put as many ads as you want on the side bar, but do not sneakily insert them in threads.  I get you have to make money - but try another way.  I come on the forums to talk to other mothers, not be marketed to. 

Good luck in all this - I have enjoyed Mothering over the years and hope it can survive and ultimately flourish.

[HollyBearsMom]

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher 

It was a policy beforehand that we review all advertising. This new person failed to observe the policy. That's what led to the incident. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher 

My post was a specific answer to this:

The policy that we review all ads prior to them going live on the site was put in place before this incident occurred. The person who posted the ad, the person who responded to the complaint about the ad that members were asking us about, is the one who failed to observe the policy. This is an explanation because we are being asked to explain how it happened. We've been asked to be transparent about issues that occur so we are trying to be. 

Stuff happens. Anyone on staff could post something as an official voice of Mothering and it be wrong. There are just some things we can't control every aspect of so stuff will happen no matter how much we try to put things into place so that they it doesn't. Is that dropping the ball? I don't think so. It's the reality of running a large site and having a lot of different people doing things in different capacities and errors being made and policies not being followed as they should. 

As a (former) Sr executive for large international company I find this response completely unacceptable.  "Stuff Happens?" That is your public answer to your clients, your advertisers, your supporters? 

The fact that you are so accepting that "Anyone on staff could post something as an official voice of Mothering and it be wrong." shows just how inept the powers that be at Mothering are as the head of this organization. It is business 101 that there should be procedures in place to keep something as egregious as this from happening. If you (Peggy, Adina, et) are not capable of understanding the magnitude of this venture than you have the responsibility of hiring people who do. Going from a paper based magazine to web based requires a whole new set of skills and understandings.

My staff members had the autonomy to write anything they wanted but not the ability to post it on our web site without a number of checks and balances. By the time it made it to copy it had been read and reviewed by at least 5 senior people, each who had "sign off on it". Did the occasional mistake still happen? Yes, but it was rare. And NEVER would anyone put the blame on a new associate, especially one who you state didn't understand the community.  It is MOTHERINGS responsibility to make sure their employees are trained properly. The fact that an entry level/new associate had not only the ability to post as "mothering" but also had the ability to counter post when the clients balked is mind boggling.

Instead of sitting there today placing the blame on an employee it would behoove Peggy and all of her senior members to accept responsibility for "dropping the ball", to recognize it was ultimately HER negligence that allowed for this to happen. If policies are not being followed it is she that is responsible. And as the "face" of Mothering she owes it to to her advertisers, her clients and this community to post a full apology both here as a banner/sticky on the top of every page as well as on ALL social media sites Mothering has chosen to associate with, FB, Twitter, etc.

A good manager takes ownership for all things, both good and bad. 

[SneakyPie]

That's never gonna happen.

After the way the demise of the magazine happened, it's clear Peggy just wants to wash her hands of the whole thing.  It would be more honest if she just shut MDC down entirely.

It's unfortunate that she never really took an interest in the site, enough to at least find out how the internet actually works.  This problem wouldn't even be happening if she had hired even one knowledgeable person years ago to manage the message board.  It's far too late now.  The draconian volunteer modding just killed this place, and her inability to find a paid person who can even take the temperature of the board/site is going to finish off any revenue the board might have brought in otherwise.

[Ornery]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

And as the "face" of Mothering she owes it to to her advertisers, her clients and this community to post a full apology both here as a banner/sticky on the top of every page as well as on ALL social media sites Mothering has chosen to associate with, FB, Twitter, etc.

A good manager takes ownership for all things, both good and bad. 

An emphatic YEAH THAT!  I am so frustrated by the ownership of Mothering not taking responsibility.  Everytime something happens (searchable emails, all threads being posted on FB under one of the tabs, etc), we are told to "give them the benefit of the doubt" and that they really didn't mean for that to happen.  Absolutely ridiculous.

[number572]

Mag subscribers should have been reimbursed and paid advertisers should be as well, IF there is something in the contract they signed that promises a certain amount of traffic.  But really, this is an online message board.  Peggy and Co owe nothing to anyone other than sub's or advertisers.  I'm not at ALL saying the way things have been handled are ok.  Not at all.  And yes, a public apology and explanation would be nice.  But, having been here for years, I've witnessed a steady decline of everything good about Mothering, then a drastic decline over the past year.  Maybe this board has just run it's course, so to speak...  its awful to see people getting SO emotionally invested in this ending.  Sometimes things just end.  Honestly I think the board should become more of a resource and less of a chit chatty forum than it has always been.  That's just my little opinion.  

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

I just checked the facebook post, and with the exception of one that I removed just now, there were no responses that were homophobic.  There were still responses to the other comments that had been removed, which were supportive in nature.  You can shoot me a PM with what you see as still problematic and I will look at them further.

We're still working on advertising.  We have only been with Huddler and their ad folks since November.  We are a unique community for them, and we are still learning what works and what doesn't.  As Cynthia stated, we will be reviewing ads in the future to ensure this doesn't happen again.  

How is this thread not against the Terms of Service?

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1315591/study-whites-believe-they-are-victims-of-racism-more-often-than-blacks

We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, sizeism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled.

http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/terms-of-service

And man, could that have been any more of a pain in the neck to find, buried way down at the very bottom of the page in small print?

[AdinaL]

That was fully mine.  Cynthia found the study and asked if I thought it was too much for a QOTD, I said it might be heated but it might be a good conversation.

I was full on wrong.  Long ago, back in the day, that might have resulted in an interesting conversation about race relations and what racism was.  This time, totally didn't work out that way.

We have had conversations about stuff like that before, and I was just plain flat out wrong that it would work out.  For that I apologize.

ETA - I removed that thread.  Clearly, I was incorrect, and removed the thread accordingly.