HUGE OB Vent!!! - Page 4

[1love4ever]

Wow
 

Originally Posted by jbk21 

I just have to interject here- "delivering" a baby is a lot (A LOT) different than the care that a midwife (like Ina May) provides.  OBs literally just come in during the last moments and catch the baby.  It is the nurses that truly care for the woman during labor (and even that is done from a central nurses station); during prenatal visits the OB is usually only with the woman for 5 minutes on average.  Midwives have hour long prenatal visits and are with the woman for most if not all of labor and childbirth, as well as during some postpartum hours.  As far as who understands the process of birth more, I put ALL my money on midwives.  As a rule, doctors are trained in pathology and they act according to risk-management (as well as out of fear of litigation).  They are trained specifically to diagnose and treat ISSUES, not to facilitate natural processes.  As far as low-risk, normal birthing, midwives are MORE than equipped to help guide that process and they are also well-trained in troubleshooting so as to know when to transfer to an OB.  Just so you know, those sort of transfers only happen in about 3% of normal births. 

So, if you asked me if a woman who has been with 2000 mothers throughout pregnancy and labor knows more about labor and birth process than an OB who has simply "caught" 3000+ babies, I'd say, without hesitation, YES the midwife knows more.  Childbirth is not an illness.  Doctors treat illness.

I also want to add that I think the books Ina May has written are so important.  No book is perfect, no author is perfect, and I can see your issue, Kanna, with that particular passage but as a whole I think that she is right on.  Promoting natural birthing is important, especially here in America, and it's important for women to be able to make informed choices about birth.  

Anyway just wanted to respond to this post with an experience(kindof)!  A friend of mine who has been a labor and delivery nurse in a large hospital for the last 15 years said to me once that she "HATES" OB's, because, the ones that she works with at least, treat the nurses like crap and act like they themselves are the "star of the show" and that they do ALL of the work, when in reality it is the nurses who do Everything, except the last 5 minutes when the "catching" takes place.  She says the Drs come in for their 5 minutes of "glory" when they catch the baby, and that is all.  She herself has ended up delivering many babys when the Dr did not come in time.  This makes no sense to me....      I think what she has to say is totally true because my first birth was in the hospital and that was exactly my experience.  I remember asking the nurse when the Dr was coming while I was pushing, and asked if she had ever delivered a baby herself.  She said she had delivered many when the Dr did not show up in time.  I also do not think that that one passage in Ina Mays book discredits the whole thing or should make a person not trust what she has to say, its not like she said something that would be harmful or anything.

With this pregnancy my first midwife appt was 2 hours long and I really enjoyed it!  And my third appt was over an hour, also awesome.  Much better than spending 30 minutes in a Drs waiting room and just talking to the Dr for 5 min(usually less IME) and not getting any of my questions or concerns answered.  Not that I am wanting any more arguing, but having a midwife has certainly worked out best for me and I hope others can have a good experience like I have!

[jbk21]

Look, Kanna, I checked out briefly your post history and read through the last few pages on the "Friend's baby died..." post.  I find it interesting that not only are you crashing this due date club to inform us all about your opinions on midwife care, but you do it in other forums as well.  Resurrecting a year old post in order to heavily debate homebirth vs hospital care is a bit strange, as others have pointed out.  I don't know where you find the time to write such lengthy posts, but I certainly do not have the time to sit here and go back and forth with you.  I think it would have been forthcoming for you to point out that you are in the medical field (a student, from what I read) and are thus a bit biased, don't you suppose?  I'm glad you started a new thread where you can throw down on these issues and push your pro-hospital birth agenda, but I am done with this conversation and frankly am going to avoid engaging with you any further in any forum because you have shown that you don't really understand what MDC is like- most women aren't here to write pages-long debates all day long, and many women don't assume that every opinion they throw out is going to be subjected to such scrutiny.  

Daring me to come debate with you in another forum?  Please.  I'm not a teenager.  

 

Based on the previous posts, I'm going to assume that you will want to have the last word, so you can go ahead and have it.  I am done with this conversation.

Originally Posted by Kanna 

You want a productive conversation? Then drop by in THIS forum, I double dog dare ya!

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1325291/the-price-of-being-the-best-is-having-to-be-the-best-or-on-how-to-make-homebirth-even-safer-initial-quote-by-terry-pratchett#post_16599963

[1love4ever]

Is there a smiley with hands clapping?  I cant find it, but I applaude you!  Lol.  I think MDC SHOULD be about us natural mammas supporting and encouraging eachother, but like you said, with Kanna here, all our posts are subject to scrutiny.  It is rude of Kanna to hijack threads like this too IMO
 

I was a student nurse, I dont know what kind of student Kanna is, but in my experience in hospitals, I actually saw no benefit from low risk babies being born in the hospital, although I did see many downsides to it....

Originally Posted by jbk21 

Look, Kanna, I checked out briefly your post history and read through the last few pages on the "Friend's baby died..." post.  I find it interesting that not only are you crashing this due date club to inform us all about your opinions on midwife care, but you do it in other forums as well.  Resurrecting a year old post in order to heavily debate homebirth vs hospital care is a bit strange, as others have pointed out.  I don't know where you find the time to write such lengthy posts, but I certainly do not have the time to sit here and go back and forth with you.  I think it would have been forthcoming for you to point out that you are in the medical field (a student, from what I read) and are thus a bit biased, don't you suppose?  I'm glad you started a new thread where you can throw down on these issues and push your pro-hospital birth agenda, but I am done with this conversation and frankly am going to avoid engaging with you any further in any forum because you have shown that you don't really understand what MDC is like- most women aren't here to write pages-long debates all day long, and many women don't assume that every opinion they throw out is going to be subjected to such scrutiny.  

Daring me to come debate with you in another forum?  Please.  I'm not a teenager.  

 

Based on the previous posts, I'm going to assume that you will want to have the last word, so you can go ahead and have it.  I am done with this conversation.

[Kanna]

Originally Posted by 1love4ever 

Is there a smiley with hands clapping?  I cant find it, but I applaude you!  Lol.  I think MDC SHOULD be about us natural mammas supporting and encouraging eachother, but like you said, with Kanna here, all our posts are subject to scrutiny.  It is rude of Kanna to hijack threads like this too IMO
 

I was a student nurse, I dont know what kind of student Kanna is, but in my experience in hospitals, I actually saw no benefit from low risk babies being born in the hospital, although I did see many downsides to it....

  Here's the smiley you were looking for  ^_~

And the thing I'm concerned about is not low risk babies, but high risk babies and moms and "normal" births that have gone south and need a transfer.

And assuming I was rude, which I don't feel I was as explained in previous posts, THEN it would be a case of pot calling kettle black, because you guys aren't exactly being the picture of politeness 

Also, as I recently learned (shortly after becoming active at MDC) there's been a policy change here on MDC, allowing people to express their opinions more freely, since this was what the majority of the MDC users wanted:

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317690/moderation-of-mdc-what-do-you-think/600

Quote: "Discussions of all types should be permitted and the community should be allowed to respond with their opinions unrestricted. I feel there are some situations where heavy moderation may be necessary but these are very few"

Given that and the fact that this isn't even one of the threads which (as I've also recently learned) are dedicated to the support of a specific subject, but simply the "November" thread, there was no obvious indication why I shouldn't drop by and join the conversation.

Edited by Kanna - 8/11/11 at 4:05am

[IwannaBanRN]

Wow! All this thread was, was pointing out an ignorant mistake on my OB's part and it turned into a homebirth war and women being catty over opinionated novels. I say both sides are right and wrong. Right in the fact that hospital birth AND homebirth are right.....for certain people. Judgment is sometimes skewed in the people that may need to be in a hospital or birthing center at birth, but that's their decision on what they think is right. What is wrong with the conversation is people talking AT each other because one feels the other is more right. Everyone is right. There ARE stupid doctors out there with lousy bedside manner, there ARE cases where homebirth should be a hospital birth to avoid transfer, there ARE traumas at birth, due to hospitals and "over care" or LACK of good care. Neither one is right or wrong, because all of these things are needed to create a balance and a freedom of choice in what a woman feels is right for her baby and herself.

[Kanna]

Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN 

Wow! All this thread was, was pointing out an ignorant mistake on my OB's part and it turned into a homebirth war and women being catty over opinionated novels.

It seems like there were a lot of changes here on MDC and a rather large influx of "newbies" (myself included), who are coming from a different kind of background than the "old" MDC'ers. I guess it will take some time and a lot of talking until both sides have gotten used to each other and start finding some middle ground.

There IS middle ground though, I'd say.

ALL of us want our birth-experience to be as safe and as pleasant as possible.

ALL of us struggle with sleepless nights and we worry when the kids get sick.

ALL of us want to be good parents to our children.

There's just quite a lot of different approaches on how to achieve these goals and getting along with people who see things from an entirely different angle takes some practice.

There's a german expression for that: "sich zusammenraufen" which basically means to scuffle and squabble with each other until you've become friends/allies.

I say both sides are right and wrong. Right in the fact that hospital birth AND homebirth are right.....for certain people. Judgment is sometimes skewed in the people that may need to be in a hospital or birthing center at birth, but that's their decision on what they think is right. What is wrong with the conversation is people talking AT each other because one feels the other is more right. Everyone is right. There ARE stupid doctors out there with lousy bedside manner, there ARE cases where homebirth should be a hospital birth to avoid transfer, there ARE traumas at birth, due to hospitals and "over care" or LACK of good care. Neither one is right or wrong, because all of these things are needed to create a balance and a freedom of choice in what a woman feels is right for her baby and herself.

[IwannaBanRN]

I was saying that there is a middle ground. Every side of the argument CREATES balance. And I agree that settling differences and knowing where one or the other stands can bring people closer, as long as it's done respectfully.

How do you pronounce the German term you put in your post? I took German in high school, but trying to sound it out makes me butcher it. lol

[Kanna]

Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN 

I was saying that there is a middle ground. Every side of the argument CREATES balance. And I agree that settling differences and knowing where one or the other stands can bring people closer, as long as it's done respectfully.

How do you pronounce the German term you put in your post? I took German in high school, but trying to sound it out makes me butcher it. lol

I was trying to start building up that middle ground from my side, just in case anyone from the "other" side was interested in meeting there.

I figure it's a bit like the yin/yang sign. They might be opposites, but each contains a bit of the other and only together do they make a whole.

I'll try to give an approximation on the pronunciation with the "sich zusammenraufen", but I make no guarantees. I'm with the medical department, not with the linguists  ^_~

"sich"  soft "s", like a bee buzzing and the "ee-chhh" with the "ch" being a bit like a hiss.

"zusammenraufen" "zu" like "tsu", "sam" like a cross between "sam" and "sum", "men" like the male part of the species, "rau" like a big cat growling "rroww" (roll the "r"!) and the  "fen" like the fen on the moor.

[Thesan83]

German has an expression for everything. I used to have a little cartoon of (made up) ones taped to the front of my German notebook in college. Things like..."a feeling of guilt over eating the last piece of black forest cake."

Personally, I like the MDC is now allowing expression of a greater range of opinion. As a newbie I didn't realize that had been a recent policy change. I just sort of assumed that it has always been okay.

[jbk21]

Thanks, Ilove4ever!  I am all for healthy debate and differing opinions, but I think it is odd that one person (kanna) seems (based on her posting history) to be prowling looking for people complaining about hospitals/OBs and posting there so that she can push her pro-hospital agenda.  She will tell you, as she had in other threads, that she is just a newbie, interested in many topics (citing circs, vaxing, books, etc as other topics she has posted on)- true, but there is also a heavy trend toward homebirth vs hospital birth conversations wherein she rails against homebirth.  The thing is, I believe that every mother here is knowledgeable about homebirth and any inherent risks, and high-risk mothers don't have homebirths.  So if it is true that Kanna is in support of homebirth for low-risk situations then I'm unsure why she is sharing studies (on many other threads) regarding the inherent safety of homebirth as compared to hospital birth.  Also, she said she is a medical student.  I can appreciate your experience as a nursing student- I've heard of far too many similar stories!  But I think we can also appreciate the bias that a medical student has against the homebirthing industry.  

We all want babies and mothers to have good outcomes- in or out of the hospital.  We are also able to make those decisions for ourselves, and I don't know about anyone else but nothing that a medical student is going to tell me is going to convince me of what I feel is right for me and my child in some mothering forum.  I accept any risks of having an out-of-hospital birth, and I think the rest of the mamas here on MDC should be afforded the same respect and that is to be able to make choices FOR THEMSELVES without scrutiny, without judgment, and with the collective support of other mamas in the community.  

I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I think there is a trend here on MDC toward more mainstream parenting styles.  This is interesting to me, considering it is a natural parenting site, so I don't know if newcomers aren't aware of that, if they are just looking for community, or if they are here to challenge those of us who make choices that may be outside the norm.  All I know is that with this change in culture, there is a change in tone in many conversations.  Your post, Ilove4ever, should have been taken for what it was- I'm sure you weren't trying to make any academic claims, just stating your personal opinion.  I also don't think that the OP intended for this sort of discussion, and she clearly is capable of making her own choices for her care, as she is keeping the same OB and realized after the OP that her OB was right for her at this stage in her care. 

If I may speak from my own experience, my mother, sister, and father-in-law are all nurses and this sort of "risk-management", anti-alternative medicine, condescending "let-me-educate-you" attitude is pervasive in the medical community.  It's frustrating for those of us who trust our bodies.  
 

Originally Posted by 1love4ever 

Is there a smiley with hands clapping?  I cant find it, but I applaude you!  Lol.  I think MDC SHOULD be about us natural mammas supporting and encouraging eachother, but like you said, with Kanna here, all our posts are subject to scrutiny.  It is rude of Kanna to hijack threads like this too IMO
 

I was a student nurse, I dont know what kind of student Kanna is, but in my experience in hospitals, I actually saw no benefit from low risk babies being born in the hospital, although I did see many downsides to it....

[Kanna]

To whom it may concern:

Anybody who is interested in what I truly believe in and what my motivations are, please feel free to browse my posting history and my interaction with others ad libitum.

You ARE entitled to have whatever opinion you like of me, whether it's good or bad.

But unless your intent is to have a meaningful, positive and productive conversation with me, amongst adults, where experience and knowledge can be shared and exchanged, I won't really care..

with best wishes, live long and prosper,

Kanna

[1love4ever]

Also just curious if Kanna is even pregnant and due in November or is she just totally crashing our due date club as well as hijacking our threads?

I once heard a wise mamma say that "the only people who dont support home birth are those who have not thoroughly researched it".  Not saying she has not done her research but obviously she is biased.  Another thing, I live 150 miles away from my midwife, so I am doing every other prenatal appt with a Dr here where I live to save on gas.  My Dr is actually a home birth supporter!  For low risk women of course.  She was very excited when I told her of my plans for a home birth and said she would be willing to do whatever I wanted her to do.  Does not mean that I like everything this Dr- she supports circumcision, does not counsel on nutrition, and does all of the routine birth interventions that are the norm of hospitals today, but I do like the fact that she supports home birth and she did tell me that she feels it is safe!  (obviously she has more experience and knowledge than a medical student!!)
 

Originally Posted by jbk21 

Thanks, Ilove4ever!  I am all for healthy debate and differing opinions, but I think it is odd that one person (kanna) seems (based on her posting history) to be prowling looking for people complaining about hospitals/OBs and posting there so that she can push her pro-hospital agenda.  She will tell you, as she had in other threads, that she is just a newbie, interested in many topics (citing circs, vaxing, books, etc as other topics she has posted on)- true, but there is also a heavy trend toward homebirth vs hospital birth conversations wherein she rails against homebirth.  The thing is, I believe that every mother here is knowledgeable about homebirth and any inherent risks, and high-risk mothers don't have homebirths.  So if it is true that Kanna is in support of homebirth for low-risk situations then I'm unsure why she is sharing studies (on many other threads) regarding the inherent safety of homebirth as compared to hospital birth.  Also, she said she is a medical student.  I can appreciate your experience as a nursing student- I've heard of far too many similar stories!  But I think we can also appreciate the bias that a medical student has against the homebirthing industry.  

We all want babies and mothers to have good outcomes- in or out of the hospital.  We are also able to make those decisions for ourselves, and I don't know about anyone else but nothing that a medical student is going to tell me is going to convince me of what I feel is right for me and my child in some mothering forum.  I accept any risks of having an out-of-hospital birth, and I think the rest of the mamas here on MDC should be afforded the same respect and that is to be able to make choices FOR THEMSELVES without scrutiny, without judgment, and with the collective support of other mamas in the community.  

I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I think there is a trend here on MDC toward more mainstream parenting styles.  This is interesting to me, considering it is a natural parenting site, so I don't know if newcomers aren't aware of that, if they are just looking for community, or if they are here to challenge those of us who make choices that may be outside the norm.  All I know is that with this change in culture, there is a change in tone in many conversations.  Your post, Ilove4ever, should have been taken for what it was- I'm sure you weren't trying to make any academic claims, just stating your personal opinion.  I also don't think that the OP intended for this sort of discussion, and she clearly is capable of making her own choices for her care, as she is keeping the same OB and realized after the OP that her OB was right for her at this stage in her care. 

If I may speak from my own experience, my mother, sister, and father-in-law are all nurses and this sort of "risk-management", anti-alternative medicine, condescending "let-me-educate-you" attitude is pervasive in the medical community.  It's frustrating for those of us who trust our bodies.  

[Adaline'sMama]

I dont think she is due in November if she's pg at all, because she has crashed other ddcs as well (mine- feb).

I was under the impression that when you come into a thread that is a part of a DDC that you arent in you are supposed to type" DDCC". Thats what I did, I saw this thread in New Posts and clicked on it because I like the OP.

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

I dont think she is due in November if she's pg at all, because she has crashed other ddcs as well (mine- feb).

I was under the impression that when you come into a thread that is a part of a DDC that you arent in you are supposed to type" DDCC". Thats what I did, I saw this thread in New Posts and clicked on it because I like the OP.

Awww! Thank you!
 

[jbk21]

I don't believe she is pg, at least I've seen no note of that anywhere.  

I'm not sure what she was discussing in Adalinesmama's DDC but like I said, it seemed odd to me that she is posting on threads specifically regarding homebirth and/or OB's and hospital birth.  Seems (this is an assumption) she is prowling, searching for those specific topics.  And in your post, Ilove4ever, the Ina May point was a minor one, in my opinion.  So starting a debate about that seemed weird to me.  I think DDCC would have at least been appropriate if not expected.  I don't know if you checked out her other posting like she recommended (see the "friends baby died..." thread- she resurrected it after a year just to start debating homebirth vs hospital birth in a thread about A BABY DYING, for goodness sake.)

Whatevs.  All I know for sure is she's got wayyyyy more time on her hands to be sitting on the internet engaging in super-lengthy debates.  I have a two-year old, too (she says she does) and I do NOT have that kind of time.

I don't mean to argue, really, but I thought it was getting a bit out of hand.  Nobody has any fun when someone like that shows up.  I'm here to connect and commune with you ladies!  Not debate heavy issues!  This is a DDC, you know?  Not a place for intense back-and-forth (unless someone invites that, of course).

Originally Posted by 1love4ever 

Also just curious if Kanna is even pregnant and due in November or is she just totally crashing our due date club as well as hijacking our threads?

I once heard a wise mamma say that "the only people who dont support home birth are those who have not thoroughly researched it".  Not saying she has not done her research but obviously she is biased.  
 

[Kanna]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

I dont think she is due in November if she's pg at all, because she has crashed other ddcs as well (mine- feb).

I was under the impression that when you come into a thread that is a part of a DDC that you arent in you are supposed to type" DDCC". Thats what I did, I saw this thread in New Posts and clicked on it because I like the OP.

I'm new, I'm browsing, I gave birth 2 years ago (as stated in my profile), I don't know what DDCC means, but would be interested to know, and I clicked on this thread because I was curious what the heck the OB had done wrong, because I HATE bad quality of care, no matter WHO is providing it.

Originally Posted by 1love4ever 

Not saying she has not done her research but obviously she is biased. 
 

As someone who passed her medical exams, but for the moment hasn't started practicing because she wanted to spend more time with her kid in the first few years (SAHM first, now part-time teacher) of course I have mainly access to the "medical" side of birth (which I reasearched extensively when I was pregnant).

So yeah, having mainly experience and information from the medical side of things, I'm biased. But I don't want to be. Being biased means that you're missing part of the picture....which means you can't make good decisions. So I come here to learn about how the "other side" sees it.

(Interest in vaccines comes because pediatrics is one of the subjects I teach and I get asked about that kind of thing. I don't want to brush off my students simply with an "It's safe" when there acutally might be valid, scientifially proven, concerns about certain vaccinations. They have to know the benefits and weigh them against the risks, but in order to do that, they have to know both).

Oh, and mind, I don't want to become an OB (you have a lot to do with breast and cervical cancer and those make me feel uncomfortable. Plus, I don't think I could handle babies that are born sick or stillbirths; having a daughter, I think it'd make me sad to the point of depression). I want to go into internal medicine (other kinds of cancer, but I feel more comfortable handling those).

My stance on HB (just to sum it up): I think for low risk births, with a competent and skilled midwife and a good transfer scheme they're safe and within the US, they seem to provide a quality of care that often trumps that of OBs/hospitals. But I also think that, with a high-risk birth OR when things go south during a HB, you seriously need an OB/hospital, because they're better equipped and trained to handle complications.

Also, I'm happy that although you "HATE" doctors, you found one who provides a level of care that you find useful and to some degree appreciate.

P.S: The thing that got the whole "debate" part started was YOUR comment, which I found quite inflammatory, since it basically was bashing all things medical:

Originally Posted by 1love4ever 

Wow OP that is ridiculous, I hate doctors.  There is a Dr here where I live that gives women episiotomies while they are pushing without even telling them or asking them, he just does it! ....  But that just goes to show that doctors really dont know best!  .... I also used to be a nursing student and I got to see first hand how the medical system really works.  ..... I could never feel right about doing all the garbage and going along with all the garbage that is our current medical system!

....Also, I have read Ina Mays Guide to Childbirth and it says a lot about the current medical system, and how Drs are about childbirth and pregnancy and all that, and it is so sad.

MY last comment before you started bitching about doctors was:

Originally Posted by Kanna 

*chuckles*

Hopefully, the next time he has an ex-addict patient, he will have learned from this, so he won't go for the barbiturates  ^_~

Edited by Kanna - 8/11/11 at 10:04pm

[jbk21]

Can we all agree to stop now?  I mean seriously, this is going nowhere.  She refuses to stop defending herself (like I mentioned earlier- seems she has to have the last word).  Where I come from, when someone is offended by what you say- whether intentional or not- you politely say "that's not what I meant, I apologize" and MOVE ALONG.  You do not go on and on and on and on and on and on defending- line by line, literally- every single thing.  

If you want to talk to her (Kanna) go to her thread she started where she is throwing down about the safety of homebirth.  (by the way, I've not seen any discussion of homebirth vs. hospital birth in Germany, where she lives.  I know the US stats are interesting and all, but really?)

Personally, I think a thread brainstorming how to improve hospital birth here in the US would be much more productive.  

 

[1love4ever]

Originally Posted by jbk21 

Personally, I think a thread brainstorming how to improve hospital birth here in the US would be much more productive.  

 

That is actually a good idea!

And Kanna, I was not "bitching" as you put it, and my comment certainly was not directed at you nor was it meant to start a debate, so no idea why you took offense to it, and it seems to me that your issue with my comment was the fact that I recommended Ina Mays book.  Have you even read her book or are you just against/uncomfortable with it without even having read it?  My recommendation was just that, and it was meant to hopefully benefit the OP, not start a debate.   You mentioned vaccines so just wanted to share a favorite site with you.  PLEASE do not argue with me about it, just want to share it, not meant as a invitation for a debate.  http://www.nvic.org/ 

And I agree, how does anyone have time to be on the internet constantly, searching through year old posts, writing very lengthy comments at all times of the day, with a 2yr old?

Well, whatever, I guess I am done here too.  Hope that in the future Kanna will learn a little more courtesy and stop hijacking threads....  I havent looked into it, but Maybe a better online community for you Kanna would be Babycenter.com online community, they are probably a little more mainstream and would likely be a little more on the same page as you then those of us on MDC?  Just a thought, talk to you all in another thread, I am out!

[jbk21]

   cheers, and have a great night!

Originally Posted by 1love4ever 

That is actually a good idea!

[Adaline'sMama]

Kanna,
This is a Due Date Club (Nov 2011 DDC means that it is the due date club for people due in November). DDCC means "Due Date Club Crashing", because if you arent due in the month of the club you are posting in,its polite to let people know that you arent in their ddc. For example, Im in the Feb DDC, not the Nov DDC. So, upon entering this thread I announced DDCC so that people wont be confused as to why Im all of the sudden posting here. Of course, my siggy says Im due in Feb, so I think most people know Either way, its polite to let people know you arent in their club before storming in with your opinion because a lot of these women are very familiar with each other and are sharing personal things with other ladies who are in the same pregnancy boat as they are in.