I just threatened to cut my parents out of my kids' lives - Page 2

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

I agree with this.

And your response was to GRAB your mother and tell her not to talk to your son that way, in front of your son?  How is that teaching him respect?  It sounds like you may have just been teaching him that the only people who have consequences are grownups.

"On one hand she devoted an entire room in her house to the kids but will buy what she wants regardless of any restrictions we have. (no character toys, battery toys etc )"

How is this odd?  She doesn't share the same values as you, but I'd say it's pretty darn nice that she has done all that for the kids, and not for you.  If you're going to dictate how your mother interacts with her grandchildren, including what toys she should and shouldn't buy for them to play with in her OWN house, then I can see why there would be conflict.  I know how hard it is to have a parent whose grandparenting isn't exactly how you would want it, but this is one of those pick your battle kinds of things.   My kids' grandparents are thousands of miles away, and my father died 3 years ago, so I am just grateful for any relationship and memories my kids have of their grandparents.

I agree 100%.

[elisheva]

Can we step back and look at the root of this situation? OP states that her ds' "weapon of choice" lately is to refuse to eat. Um, ok. So why-oh-why would you get into a battle over this with an admittedly grumpy child who just woke from a brief nap? So he doesn't eat. No healthy 4 y.o. child in a first world country has ever voluntarily starved himself.

OP, your mom shouldn't have spoken to your ds in that manner. Trying to force a child to eat is a recipe for disaster, though - especially since this seems already to be a control issue for the both of you.

[cinderella08]

[Katwoman]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

You know beenmum, when you spend a lifetime with a mother who is manipulative, controlling, plays victim, is mean, etc, sometimes you fly off the handle a little faster than you would in a typical situation.  If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today.  And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn.  But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense.  OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand.  On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child.  OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of.  Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it. 

If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today.  And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn.  But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense.  OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand.  On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child.  OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of.  Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

I made zero assumptions about your past beenmum. Tell me where I made a single comment on your life. 

While you might not have said "clearly beenmum, you've never had a mother that's done x, y, z.  So you know nothing about a toxic parent"  You're 1st post clearly points to her and tries to explain a toxic parent background.  Which does imply that you believe she's had no experience with the issue.  Her response was to say, I've had a toxic background parent and I see things differently.

[Adaline'sMama]

Seriously? "Poor, poor, adult grandmother being yelled at by a four year old." And he should apologize? No.

He's 4. She was being nasty to a 4 year old for yelling and throwing a tantrum. Thats like being nasty to a dog for barking or an elderly lady for taking too long to cross the street. He is a child, she has no right to treat him that way.

I would tell your parents that if they cant get a handle on themselves in front of your kid, your kid cant come over.

[Agatha_Ann]

I think everyone was wrong in this situation. Grandma should not have yelled at the child, Mama should not have grabbed Grandma or forced child to sit down for lunch, and child should not have yelled at Grandma. Sure four year olds act like that, but as the adults it is our responsibility to guide them into more appropriate behavior.

If Grandma's house is so toxic that the OP can't control her actions there, then they should no longer be visiting. I don't think it is fair ( and it is beyond confusing) to model to a child that it's ok to act however you want because Grandma is toxic.

[DariusMom]

This! If the Grandmother is really so bad, then cut her off. But don't do it over this incident alone. Explain whatever background you need to, OP, and move on. From the outside, though, it sounds like you put your DS in a bad situation, your mother exacerbated it, and you all need to chill out and accept the positive in each other and let go of the negative.
 

Originally Posted by Agatha_Ann 

I think everyone was wrong in this situation. Grandma should not have yelled at the child, Mama should not have grabbed Grandma or forced child to sit down for lunch, and child should not have yelled at Grandma. Sure four year olds act like that, but as the adults it is our responsibility to guide them into more appropriate behavior.

If Grandma's house is so toxic that the OP can't control her actions there, then they should no longer be visiting. I don't think it is fair ( and it is beyond confusing) to model to a child that it's ok to act however you want because Grandma is toxic.

[chaoticzenmom]

It seems to me that the real issue stems from the OP's childhood and what she saw with her son triggered an over-reaction.  I've seen it with myself and my husband when it comes to our children. You're going along just fine and then your parent treats your child in a way that brings back a flood of issues you never realized you had.  My husband freaked out on his mom when she tried to force one of our kids to wear a coat.  Later he said it was like remembering her forcing him to do it to him as a child as she was always doing little controlling things like that for things that didn't really matter (like wearing a coat). 

OP, your mother never apologized to YOU, so this is the real issue, I think.  Maybe she forced you to do things you didn't want or spoke to you in that way and it just got to you.  I think maybe you should backstep and see if there's something from your own childhood that you could address because it seems like the real issue wasn't what happened with your son that day.

[slylives]

OP said that that her son yelled "I don't want lunch!" at Grandma. And I agree with the PP - the son should have been asked to apologise for speaking that way. Just because a behavior is age-appropriate, doesn't mean that it should go uncorrected (whether by time-out, apology, or whatever.)
 

Originally Posted by mamazee 

She said he was fussing, not screaming.

I don't expect 4-year-olds to apologize for acting like 4-year-olds, but I do expect adults to apologize for acting in a verbally abusive way.

Or better yet, not be verbally abusive in the first place.

[mamazee]

We don't know his behavior wasn't corrected. She might very well have told him not to speak to his grandmother like that.

[mamalisa]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

You know beenmum, when you spend a lifetime with a mother who is manipulative, controlling, plays victim, is mean, etc, sometimes you fly off the handle a little faster than you would in a typical situation.  If someone walks their dog past your house each day at 3pm and lets him take a poop on your lawn without cleaning it up, at some point, you are going to be out there at 2:59 yelling down the street that you're going to kick his butt if his dog poops on your lawn today.  And you'd look like a real lunatic to everyone who didn't see him come by for the past 10 days and let his dog poop on your lawn.  But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense.  OP might seem to you like she jumped the gun and overreacted, but as someone who has been in a similar situation, I completely totally understand.  On top of that, I could never fault a mother for protecting her own child.  OP has *seen* first hand what her mother is capable of.  Part of the reaction was probably also to knowing what her mother was capable of and how far she could have taken it. 

This post spoke to me in such a way I can't describe.  It truly described what my life was like with my mother.

As for the OP, I think that a 4 year old who is having a moment should be left alone, a 4 year old who doesn't want to eat right then should be left alone.  I think getting in  a kid's face and hissing at him because he doesn't want to eat is off limits.  You shouldn't have grabbed your mom, but I understand where it was coming from.
 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Katwoman 

While you might not have said "clearly beenmum, you've never had a mother that's done x, y, z.  So you know nothing about a toxic parent"  You're 1st post clearly points to her and tries to explain a toxic parent background.  Which does imply that you believe she's had no experience with the issue.  Her response was to say, I've had a toxic background parent and I see things differently.

Well, no.  That is a real twist on what I said and pretty imaginative.  You can read into things as much as you want, as can beenmum, but my point was to explain MY background and how it related to OP's (possibly) and how that can change reactions in certain situations.  There has been a real lack of empathy in this thread by a couple posters in regards to what OP has dealt with from her mom, and I was trying to explain why OP's behavior may have seemed irrational and overboard, but wasn't in light of her history with her mother.  That has nothing to do with beenmum other than the fact that she was one of the people harping on OP for being "wrong." 

 The whole idea that everyone has to be wrong, take responsibility, and essentially compromise in this situation with granny is unhealthy.  There is all this talk about disciplining a four year old, and that is just great, but OP never had the chance because granny stepped in completely inappropriately before anything could be done.  Nobody knows how OP would have handled her child's behavior if she hadn't had the opportunity stolen from her. Not only that, but disciplining this kid at this particular time would have also just reinforced that granny's behavior was appropriate, which it wasn't.  If I give someone a mean look and they come up and smack me for it, yeah, I shouldn't have given them a mean look, but now the fact that they smacked me makes the mean look seem unimportant.  OP and her son's actions pale in comparison to granny's behavior.  If it were me, I wouldn't have been happy I had acted that way, nor would I have been pleased that my son had been rude.  I would absolutely seek to work on his manners and my own reactions.  But I'd also cut myself an ounce of slack considering the circumstances and realize it was also a sign that the relationship needed to be dialed down or cut off.  And I sure wouldn't expect to come on MDC looking for a tiny bit of support and be told I should apologize by people who supposedly understand the nature of toxic family members...     

[beenmum]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense. 

This is what you said. To those who understand. Imply that I DONT understand what its like to have a toxic parent.

How else did you mean that sentence?

B/c it came off as you saying that I didnt understand.

I do.

I wasnt harping on her. I was pointing out that there were several things that happened that escalated the situation.

I also pointed out that a 4 year old yelling at a grandparent would not be tolerated by many.

I also pointed out that the grandmother was wrong to do what she did. However, so was the OP by grabbing her. So was the 4 year old for yelling at his grandmother. While each was wrong to different degrees, they all contribute to this senario.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by elisheva 

Can we step back and look at the root of this situation? OP states that her ds' "weapon of choice" lately is to refuse to eat. Um, ok. So why-oh-why would you get into a battle over this with an admittedly grumpy child who just woke from a brief nap? So he doesn't eat. No healthy 4 y.o. child in a first world country has ever voluntarily starved himself.

OP, your mom shouldn't have spoken to your ds in that manner. Trying to force a child to eat is a recipe for disaster, though - especially since this seems already to be a control issue for the both of you.

I agree with this completely. My children rarely eat all of their food and it drives both sets of parents bonkers. I don't care. If my kids want to be done eating I let them get up because I don't want to have any sort of battle in front of the grandparents where they will get it in their head that their input is appreciated in any way. And I always tell the grandparents that our rule is you don't have to eat everything if you don't want to. I don't engage in food battles, its not worth it to me. 

Originally Posted by Agatha_Ann 

I think everyone was wrong in this situation. Grandma should not have yelled at the child, Mama should not have grabbed Grandma or forced child to sit down for lunch, and child should not have yelled at Grandma. Sure four year olds act like that, but as the adults it is our responsibility to guide them into more appropriate behavior.

If Grandma's house is so toxic that the OP can't control her actions there, then they should no longer be visiting. I don't think it is fair ( and it is beyond confusing) to model to a child that it's ok to act however you want because Grandma is toxic.

I agree. 

I wanted to add that it did not sit right with me that the OP was sitting there demanding her mother apologize to her four year old, in front of him. I see nothing good coming from that except for some major entitlement issues for the little boy. 

I apologize to my kids when I have wronged them, definitely and I could even say the grandmother owed the little boy an apology but for the mom to stand there and demand her mother apologize to the child as if the grandmother is a child...It just...well, no. IMO it should have been handled between mom and grandma privately. 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by beenmum 

This is what you said. To those who understand. Imply that I DONT understand what its like to have a toxic parent.

How else did you mean that sentence?

This is a waste of my time and I'm done engaging you about this after this post as I can see you just want to fight about it for no apparent reason but...  I understand fully you understand what it is like to have a toxic parent.  I don't think you understood my point though because if you did understand my point about the over reaction, you'd have to have an astonishing lack of empathy to not understand how a person could overreact in that situation.  I didn't say it was right.  I said I understood the over reaction.  Understanding the reaction and understanding what it is like to have a toxic parent are two totally different things. 

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood 

I wanted to add that it did not sit right with me that the OP was sitting there demanding her mother apologize to her four year old, in front of him. I see nothing good coming from that except for some major entitlement issues for the little boy. 

I thought it was great that she did this.  Once grandma hisses at him, that cannot be undone.  An apology is not going to make him feel like she is a safe, loving person who is going to treat him respectfully.  But now he knows his mom does respect him and is willing to stand up for him.  I really think that's awesome, OP.  

I also agree with the poster that said he was acting like a normal four year old and, no matter what his behavior, her's was completely unacceptable.  

The decision to allow grandma to have a relationship with him should not hinge on whether or not she apologizes.  You know that she behaves this way.  An apology is not going to protect him from future attacks.  You may decide that it is a worthwhile thing to continue a relationship, but I don't think the apology should have any bearing.  

[beenmum]

ALL I asked was

WAS there another way for me to have intrepreted "But to those who understand, it makes perfect sense"?

And now I'm arguing with you?????

It was a LEGITIMATE question. You accused me of twisitng your words. I quoted them exactly and showed it to you so you what I was responding to.

I'm the one that should be upset here. You implied that I was incapable of understanding the OP b/c her reactions didnt make sense to me.

And then to add insult You keep leaving the parts where I said the grandmother was wrong. She was. You keep quoting everything I said BUT that part.

The OP for escalating it in front of her son by grabbing her mother. You dont use physical intervention for a non physical threat and expect that it isnt going to escalate.

[dauphinette]

Originally Posted by mamazee 

It sounds to me like she was showing her son she'll stand up for him if someone verbally abuses him.

I do agree about the toy room, though. That was a nice gesture and you can't get controlling with grandparents about what toys they buy your kids. That's just not fair.

I disagree, I don't think there is a rule that because someone is family you just have to 'take whatever you get' so to speak.  I think it is an issue of respect.  In our family we don't like to live with a bunch of stuff or as I call it 'junk'.  My family knows this and so to respect our wishes and our families values they don't send us a bunch a of junk and they ask first before sending something.  I would feel disrespected if they thought that just because they think the kids should have something that we will want to live with it.  I think likewise if you want to have a respectful loving relationship with your grown children/grandchildren you respect the parents wishes about toys/clothes/gifts etc.  There is nothing wrong with wanting less or opting out of marketing exposure and materialism and nothing wrong for this mom to want nothing to do with it for her kids and her mom should respect that.
 

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

I disagree, I don't think there is a rule that because someone is family you just have to 'take whatever you get' so to speak.  I think it is an issue of respect.  In our family we don't like to live with a bunch of stuff or as I call it 'junk'.  My family knows this and so to respect our wishes and our families values they don't send us a bunch a of junk and they ask first before sending something.  I would feel disrespected if they thought that just because they think the kids should have something that we will want to live with it.  I think likewise if you want to have a respectful loving relationship with your grown children/grandchildren you respect the parents wishes about toys/clothes/gifts etc.  There is nothing wrong with wanting less or opting out of marketing exposure and materialism and nothing wrong for this mom to want nothing to do with it for her kids and her mom should respect that.
 

That's an awfully simplistic attitude.

Yes, in the presence of other relationship issues, the toy one may just be icing on the cake, but on its own, it would be foolish IMO to cut a child's grandparents out of their lives just because they don't share the same toy values.

I value my kids' relationships with their grandparents far more than to let things like that interfere.  My ILs send the kids stuff that I would never buy for them all the time.  They are 70+ years old.  I'm not going to belittle them for having a different taste in characters and clothes that I do, or sabotage their relationship with my kids because they did things one way, thought it worked out pretty well, and want to do the same for their grandkids.  Heck, I'd even let them feed the kids Twinkies and other junk food during our sporadic visits.  They only get 3 remaining grandparents and an unknown amount of time with them.  Life is way too short to bicker over things like sometime exposure to batteries and plastic toys when relationships are at stake.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Yes, in the presence of other relationship issues, the toy one may just be icing on the cake, but on its own, it would be foolish IMO to cut a child's grandparents out of their lives just because they don't share the same toy values.

I value my kids' relationships with their grandparents far more than to let things like that interfere.  My ILs send the kids stuff that I would never buy for them all the time.  They are 70+ years old.  I'm not going to belittle them for having a different taste in characters and clothes that I do, or sabotage their relationship with my kids because they did things one way, thought it worked out pretty well, and want to do the same for their grandkids.  Heck, I'd even let them feed the kids Twinkies and other junk food during our sporadic visits.  They only get 3 remaining grandparents and an unknown amount of time with them.  Life is way too short to bicker over things like sometime exposure to batteries and plastic toys when relationships are at stake.

I agree that there are a lot of things that I choose to "let go" with the grandparents for the sake of the relationship. Toys would be one of them even though I'd love to throw 90% of the insanely loud toys they buy out the window.  BUT, I think the point she was trying to make is about respect.  Grandparents do need to understand and should understand that they need to respect the parents' choices.  If I felt like that my choices were being consisently undermined, I would definitely take a stand and draw some clear boundaries.  If I want my kid to play with only green toys and granny brings over blue toys every week when she comes, I should be able to tell her it isn't acceptable.  Granny feeling my choices are outlandish doesn't change that it is my right to make those choices for my child and have the choices be respected.  I'm the parent. 

Also, I think most of the time when the line gets drawn in the sand over these things, it stems from the relationship with the grandparents being crappy to start with.  For instance, my relationship with my MIL includes zero respect from her.  So I am more likely to get snippy over "no, you can't feed by 4 month old whipped cream" than I am with my 90 year old grandpa who isn't quite all there, isn't purposely disrespecting me, and generally treats me well.