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Too skimpy clothes? Or others should not look? Paranoia? - Page 4

post #61 of 140
I would think generally in families with teenagers, you'd hear some conversations like yours, and some with "get over yourself." Teenagers are old enough to handle it. It would be way too harsh for a 4-year-old though. Older kids and teens don't always respond to "You have so many great qualities . . ." Though they need to hear that too. But, honestly, they will think they're the center of the universe until they're told in no uncertain terms that they aren't. I want to be gentle and also be real and authentic. I am not going to use inauthentic language every day in every interaction with my kids, and "you have so many great qualities" isn't always going to be the most real and authentic thing to say. We'll talk like real people talk to each other too.
post #62 of 140

Ok APtoddlermama...I actually DO DO DO agree with you about this SPECIFIC teen..she doesn't need to hear that..

 

HOWEVER, a healthy/well adjusted/average teen with minimal problems who is full of themself NEEDS to hear that they aren't the center of the universe specifically so they can get that stupid idea out of their head...

If my teenage kid is being an ass (and is otherwise mentally healthy/ well adjusted whatever), I'm gonna call them on it...Teen years are an age when they NEED to start being called out on their crap behavior. It accomplishes a lot to me...like letting them know that hey, "you are in fact NOT the center of the universe so get over yourself thanks." More teens should hear that IMO.

post #63 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

I would think generally in families with teenagers, you'd hear some conversations like yours, and some with "get over yourself." Teenagers are old enough to handle it. It would be way too harsh for a 4-year-old though. Older kids and teens don't always respond to "You have so many great qualities . . ." Though they need to hear that too. But, honestly, they will think they're the center of the universe until they're told in no uncertain terms that they aren't. I want to be gentle and also be real and authentic. I am not going to use inauthentic language every day in every interaction with my kids, and "you have so many great qualities" isn't always going to be the most real and authentic thing to say. We'll talk like real people talk to each other too.

 

Mamazee--that is fine and dandy with your kids who I am assuming have grown up with a self esteem.  Also assuming you haven't suggested that they need to have a boyfriend, be popular, and dress skanky to have worth.  And sure, there is a time and place to say get over yourself to a teenager, of course.  Probably lots of times.  I just don't see this as being even CLOSE to one of those times.  I think it would be totally inappropriate and completely miss the mark of what is actually going on for this girl. 

post #64 of 140



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

Ok APtoddlermama...I actually DO DO DO agree with you about this SPECIFIC teen..she doesn't need to hear that..

 

HOWEVER, a healthy/well adjusted/average teen with minimal problems who is full of themself NEEDS to hear that they aren't the center of the universe specifically so they can get that stupid idea out of their head...

If my teenage kid is being an ass (and is otherwise mentally healthy/ well adjusted whatever), I'm gonna call them on it...Teen years are an age when they NEED to start being called out on their crap behavior. It accomplishes a lot to me...like letting them know that hey, "you are in fact NOT the center of the universe so get over yourself thanks." More teens should hear that IMO.



Ahhhh so glad we agree ldavis ;). 

 

post #65 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



 



Ahhhh so glad we agree ldavis ;). 

 

I knew we'd get there eventually...I really do agree with you about this particular girl, she doesn't need to hear that...she needs a mother who is a mother and not buddy and she needs serious help rebuilding her self esteem...I do feel really bad for her.
 

 

post #66 of 140
I think those specific words would be too harsh for this girl, but a gentler version of the same thing could help her. The whole swimming pool doesn't rotate around her. Maybe, "Other people are having fun at the pool too, and their fun is independent of what you are doing or wearing." But yes, this particular teen needs a lot of other help, too. Teens in general though don't need such soft language.
post #67 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

I think those specific words would be too harsh for this girl, but a gentler version of the same thing could help her. The whole swimming pool doesn't rotate around her. Maybe, "Other people are having fun at the pool too, and their fun is independent of what you are doing or wearing." But yes, this particular teen needs a lot of other help, too. Teens in general though don't need such soft language.



You know, I agree with you sort of, but having worked at a pool, I know there are frequently people there (mostly adult males) whose fun at the pool is totally DEpendent on what teen girls (and puke...little kids) are wearing.  There were more than a handful of men arrested at the pool I worked at for various nasty behavior (masturbating behind the fence watching the kids, flashing people, bringing video tape in and taping close ups of boobs/butts, offering kids candy, trying to get them to leave with them, etc.).   So, while this particular man was probably not interested in this girl, chances are that there was at least someone there who was enjoying every minute and would have loved to save the memory on his cell phone. 

 

post #68 of 140
I can't help seeing this from the grandpa's side is all. They took his phone to check to see if there were any photos of the girls on his camera, and found none, and none in the background. But let's say he didn't notice and she was in the background once or twice, and due to the ill-fitting nature of her bathing suit, there was some breast showing. Is grandpa now on the sex registry list? Is he no longer to be around his grandkids? His life could have been ruined, and at 14 kids have to take a bit of responsibility for their actions.
post #69 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post





You know, I agree with you sort of, but having worked at a pool, I know there are frequently people there (mostly adult males) whose fun at the pool is totally DEpendent on what teen girls (and puke...little kids) are wearing.  There were more than a handful of men arrested at the pool I worked at for various nasty behavior (masturbating behind the fence watching the kids, flashing people, bringing video tape in and taping close ups of boobs/butts, offering kids candy, trying to get them to leave with them, etc.).   So, while this particular man was probably not interested in this girl, chances are that there was at least someone there who was enjoying every minute and would have loved to save the memory on his cell phone. 

 



man maybe it was just because I was in a smaller town or something but my town pool NEVER had this problem. That is just crazy and I can see how that would change your perspective a bit...

 

post #70 of 140

This was a definitely busy pool in an average sized city.  Probably over 150 people there each day.  I don't think any of it even made the news. 

post #71 of 140
Oh, I didnt read all of the replies because I typically have differing views with people regarding teenagers attire. Pretty much everyone in my family struggles with weight issues. Not obesity, or extremely overweight, but usually once most of us have hit around 20, we cant pull off bikinis unless we work really really hard. So, Im of the school of thought, that let 'em wear it while they still can! I wasnt allowed to wear short shorts or bikinis or sexy clothes at all until I'd moved out of my mom's house, and I think it was all of about one year that I still looked super hot in those clothes.

Also, I feel like you can never win with skimpy clothing. If you wear skimpy clothes and you are a teenager you are "too young" and you "look like you should be working the corner" and if you wear those clothes when you are over 25 you are "trying to dress like a high school kid." So, when is it okay?

I think your niece should cover up at family events. She can wear the string bikini at her friends pool, but not at a family event. Regardless of where she goes and what bathing suit she is wearing, she will attract attention because she is a teenager in a swimsuit. However, her parents should be teaching her to dress for the occasion, and a string bikini is inappropriate for a family function, IMO. Both my sister and my sister in law work skimpy dresses and 3-4 inch heels to my outdoor wedding and I thought they looked ridiculous. You dont wear a slinky, glitterly, tiny dress to a wedding in the countryside no matter how old you are. Our parents should have told them that, since they were both high school students.

On the camera: no one has any right to complain that grandpa was taking pictures at a family event. Period. If you dont want a picture of yourself in a string bikini to be circulated, dont wear one.
post #72 of 140
Thread Starter 

I will say, while I think my own sister is insecure, in her daughter's case, her daughter is not insecure at all, as far as I can see (other than an assumption that all teens would be insecure). She seems very happy with herself and likes to flaunt. She is not a mean girl though. She does say stuff like that she thinks she NEEDS to date now or she will never have a husband and they have to dress this way or they will be humilated and such. But she is head cheerleader of her squad at her school. She does modeling on the side sometimes professionally. She seems to be pretty popular and is always on the go. I know....I know you cannot neccesarily tell if someone feels bad on the inside based on how she is on the outside. My sister may do this and encourage it because she was insecure and we grew up in such an abusive home. But my nieces have never been abused (not that I have seen at all) and actually have been quite spoiled. My sister has failed to be a good role model or to have good priorities in the right place. In my sister's case, I think she is the one with low self esteem who feels her girls must be this way in order to be happy. So she is raising her children to be this way. Niece is not this horrible all over there brat. I do not spend much time with her. But in the time I have spent with her, there has been an occassion where she says these things. She is not snotty or catty about it. It is, however, very cruel that my daughter is not included in anything niece does. But in reality, that was my sister's idea and my niece has only really been on board with it in the last year or so. Now at this point, my dd and niece really are so different that my daughter would probably not want to hang with her friends. Not when these things are the kinds of things niece seems to be spending her time doing. I do think though, it would be reasonable for niece to do something on occassion with my daughter. Not that my daughter is a charity case, but I think family should try to spend some time together. But niece has never been taught good priorities so spending an afternoon with my DD has not ever been in her agenda. 

post #73 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post


It is a teenage thing.  Developmentally kids that age tend to think people are way more aware of/interested in their zit, clothes, hair, whatever than they are. 

 

I think this behavior is something created by conditioning and is not developmental in nature. I never learned about this stage of development in any of my psych classes, and I know very few teenagers who are hypersensitive about how they look. Maybe my kids' friends and my friends' kids are just confident people. shrug.gif


 


Originally Posted by Smithie

Encountering a hooker (or somebody dressed like a hooker) doesn't mean you should act like a john. The rules of social engagement don't change based on what other people are wearing. When in doubt, treat a stranger the want you'd want your mother/father/son/daughter to be treated, and you'll never go wrong.

 

Staring at someone who is scantily clad is not "acting like a John." Once again, people who dress that way are looking for attention. Either they are pleased with people staring at them, or they are pleased that they can complain about someone staring at them. It's all about attention. And thanks, but I don't need some patronizing lecture about how to treat strangers on the street. eyesroll.gif

post #74 of 140

OP-- It seems like maybe your feelings are a little hurt by your sister and niece's treatment of your daughter.  I know I would be hurt for sure.  And honestly, I probably wouldn't subject my own kids to that sort of influence/treatment on a regular basis.  Respectfully though, I just don't think it is possible that your niece is so secure given the crap your sister seems to be jamming down her throat.  I would really re-think that.  Obviously I don't know her and you're her aunt, but being the head cheerleader doesn't exempt you from feeling bad on the inside (as you said) and it certainly doesn't exempt you from thinking that your worth and value come from your appearance and popularity which is a slippery dangerous slope.  It really does sound like she could use a positive adult role model in her life offering some guidance on this if your sister isn't able to do so.  Not that it is your job.  I'd be really on the fence between wanting to help my niece and wanting to separate from them as much as possible given the cirumstances. 

post #75 of 140


Funny you should say that because I initially posted to check your psych 101 textbook but decided that was my snarky, mean, crabby pregnant mind telling me to do that and deleted it.  But in all seriousness-- yes, it is developmental and it is in your psych 101 textbook.  Not necessarily being hypersensitive about how you look, but thinking that others are much more interested and concerned with YOU in general.  It can be anything from "everyone noticed I tripped in the hallway even though there were 100000 other people in the hallway all completely unaware" to "everyone is noticing that my hair is a 16th of an inch shorter on the left side."  It is just the general idea that others care or are judging a lot more than they are. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post

 

I think this behavior is something created by conditioning and is not developmental in nature. I never learned about this stage of development in any of my psych classes, and I know very few teenagers who are hypersensitive about how they look. Maybe my kids' friends and my friends' kids are just confident people. shrug.gif

 

post #76 of 140

Well... My daughter's bikini is the crochet knit one in the second row.

 

http://www.aeropostale.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=11290906&cp=3534618.3534619.3534623.3541049

 

Skimpy? Yep. And I see nothing wrong with it. On her. Sorry.

post #77 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

I would think generally in families with teenagers, you'd hear some conversations like yours, and some with "get over yourself." Teenagers are old enough to handle it. It would be way too harsh for a 4-year-old though. Older kids and teens don't always respond to "You have so many great qualities . . ." Though they need to hear that too. But, honestly, they will think they're the center of the universe until they're told in no uncertain terms that they aren't. I want to be gentle and also be real and authentic. I am not going to use inauthentic language every day in every interaction with my kids, and "you have so many great qualities" isn't always going to be the most real and authentic thing to say. We'll talk like real people talk to each other too.

This. You don't need to be wretched about it. But I sometimes wonder teens who aren't told that the world doesn't revolve around them, I think they turn into my sister where she is still in her mid-twenties acting like a snotty teen.

And imagine the consequences of the next person she imagines to be taking photos. What about their lives!?!

I believe that she should feel free to dress as she chooses and that she shouldn't get harassed by anyone. The double standard for what skin men can show vs the skin women can show is ridiculous.

However, she is on a public place. There may be a chance she could have her photo taken. If she doesn't want her photo to be taken while she is wearing her bathing suit, she should wear something less revealing.

To think that someone is taking her photo and using it for nefarious reasons is like accusing someone of a thought crime. And because of potential life-destroying accusations where most men in north America are thought to be sexual predators, I'd impress upon the seriousness of her actions of calling the police on poor grandpa.

As well, more and more laws are being passed in the world that prevents people from taking photos in public places. I'd like to suggest actions like your niece's are adding fuel to our liberties being taken away for thought crime.
post #78 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post



 

I also agree with you and the poster above me.

 

Sure, your niece has the right to wear a bandaid as a swimsuit. She also will have the right to pick her nose in traffic. Either way, people will look and talk about her. She'd better get used to it.
 

 

I agree.  I feel bad for the poor grandpa.  I hate it when young teens act all dramatic and victimized.  I have a friend who did this often when we were that age, it's been 30 years and she still loves to create drama.
 

 

post #79 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

Well... My daughter's bikini is the crochet knit one in the second row.

 

http://www.aeropostale.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=11290906&cp=3534618.3534619.3534623.3541049

 

Skimpy? Yep. And I see nothing wrong with it. On her. Sorry.

That's cute.  As long as it fits her nicely and she isn't tugging it constantly to keep properly covered, then fine. 

 

I was not allowed 2-pieces (bikinis) after I hit puberty until I moved out of my parents' home.  They were great while pregnant, as I didn't have to worry about fitting over my belly.  Now, I prefer rash-guards and skirt-style bottoms.  No stretch marks (3 kids and still), not overweight, but just for modesty.  I don't like tugging and all that.  I'd rather have fun with my kids than worry about whether I'm showing something that no one but me and my husband need to see.
 

 

post #80 of 140

I haven't read the whole thread, but have noticed several comments along the lines of "teenagers are old enough" and "she's not five years old" when it comes to telling her to get over herself. Quite aside from OP's niece's bizarre environment, it's not as simple as "get over yourself". I was hideously self-conscious as a teen, and I knew more kids (seemed worse for the girls, but the boys had it, too) who suffered from the same thing. Sometimes, it manifested as the "the guys are all watching me" thing. Sometimes, it was more of a massive paranoia about panty lines, an unzipped fly, a zit on one's nose, spinach between the teeth, etc. etc. (these things were social catastrophes!). Some of the kids were more prone to one kind over the other (I, personally, was much, much more prone to the latter)...but it was still an "everyone is looking at me" thing. And, being told to get over it, or that I was being an ass, wasn't helpful. I could take that kind of thing more easily at 5 than at 14, because at 5, I wasn't as prickly, touchy, over-sensitive, and paralytically self-conscious.

 

I think extreme self-consciousness is really, really common for teens, no matter how it manifests.

 

And, all that said, I hope OP's niece finds some better guidance from somewhere. She sounds like she's in a bad place, with really skewed priorities...and calling the cops on some guy at the pool (who would have been legally taking the pictures, even if they had been of OP's niece), because one thinks he's a perv, is overkill.

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