CA bill (AB 499) would allow 12 year olds to consent to certain vaccines without parental knowledge - Page 2

[LiLStar]

One thing I've thought of that I think would be an excellent compromise is if parents could "pre consent" (or "pre-refuse") their child receiving birth control, vaccines, std treatment, even abortions.. without their knowledge. Just a form on file with the child's doctor (and possibly also school?) stating that hey, if my child wants birth control (etc) and is uncomfortable discussing it with me, I consent to their receiving it without my knowledge. Respects the parents' right to make medical decisions for their children, and also allows teens a way to get access to things like birth control if they aren't comfortable going to their parents about it. 

[Lovemy3girls]

Has anyone seen this article about stealth vaccine laws?

http://www.naturalnews.com/032691_vaccine_laws_consent.html

It really chaps my hide that this bill would sneak the HPV vaccine into the package (another genetically engineered virus - yay!) when girls as young as 12 are clueless about the ingredients or possible dangerous side effects and are really in no position to make a mature and informed decision on it.  This bill will provide more opportunities to scare or manipulate a vulnerable population into getting the vaccine. But then how many girls are actually going to want to follow through with the 3 shot series anyway? That's expecting a lot of dedication and commitment for that age group...would it really be that successful? Let's hope not.

http://www.onemoregirlfilm.com/

[erigeron]

I'm for it, but I'm also for teens being able to get the Pill without their parents having to get involved. Like any pharmacologic therapy, both have their risks and their benefits, and like any intervention related to sexual health, there may be generational disconnect and the potential for abuse getting in the way of the teen's ability to seek care. It's a nice thought that teens who perceive themselves as being at risk could sit down and have a heart-to-heart with their parents, but that's not going to happen with everybody. I would assume this legislation is targeted less at those who deliberately decided not to vaccinate for ideological reasons and more at those who a. don't vax because they can't be bothered to take their kids to the doc or who b. wouldn't approve the Gardasil vax specifically because they think their kid should be abstaining.

[nia82]

I'm 100% wih Turquesa on this issue. What I take away from this is to be absolutely open with my children and starting at a young age will ingrain in them to NEVER LET ANYONE VACCINATE YOU WITHOUT MAMA OR DADDY. EVER. Whatever they promise, we'll buy two of those for not vaccinating. I do realize that kids have s-e-x, but frankly I'm rather a grandma at 40 than having my kid taking hormonal birth control. Any medication and surgery can have severe side effects, and I sincerely hope to be able to openly discuss all of this with my children. The law has nothing to do with giving 12 year old rights, it has all to do with circumventing parental rights.

[erigeron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nia82 

frankly I'm rather a grandma at 40 than having my kid taking hormonal birth control.

Okay, but look at it from the other side. Maybe your daughter would rather take hormonal birth control than be a mom at 16, and it's her body and her life that is most affected. Maybe she'd rather take the risk of the vaccine than the risk of HPV. Then again, maybe not. But this decision isn't just about the parent and their desires for their kid's life, it's also about the child and their desires for their own life.

And fundamentally, it's not really about people who have good relationships with their kids, either. Do you want to deny autonomy to the kids in difficult situations in the name of your own parental rights?

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by erigeron 

Quote:

Maybe your daughter would rather take hormonal birth control than be a mom at 16, and it's her body and her life that is most affected. Maybe she'd rather take the risk of the vaccine than the risk of HPV.

And fundamentally, it's not really about people who have good relationships with their kids, either. Do you want to deny autonomy to the kids in difficult situations in the name of your own parental rights?

Let's not forget that the bill targets kids as young as 12.

The top executives at Merck are not idiots. There's not enough money in limiting it to kids in difficult situations. No, the vaccine will actually be pushed on kids, with bribes, incentives, contests, etc. It's already happened, except in this case, parental permission was required. http://www.NaturalNews.com/032330_vaccines_iPod.html

nia82 is smart. "Whatever they promise, we'll buy two of those for not vaccinating." This is what it has come to.

[prothyraia]

I'm for it.

If they're physically old enough to procreate, they're old enough to have control over medical decisions directly related to that.   Including those decisions related to prevention, like birth control, STD prevention, and these vaccinations. 

[erigeron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ma2two 

Quote:

Let's not forget that the bill targets kids as young as 12.

The top executives at Merck are not idiots. There's not enough money in limiting it to kids in difficult situations. No, the vaccine will actually be pushed on kids, with bribes, incentives, contests, etc. It's already happened, except in this case, parental permission was required. http://www.NaturalNews.com/032330_vaccines_iPod.html

nia82 is smart. "Whatever they promise, we'll buy two of those for not vaccinating." This is what it has come to.

Well, what primarily bothered me about nia82's response was that she put more emphasis on what her preferences were for herself as a parent than on what her child's preferences might be for her own life. Just because she would take being a grandmother at 40 over her daughter taking contraceptives doesn't mean that her daughter would view the situation the same way. I'm not going to defend the idea of "targeting" children to get them to get vaccinated, but I don't want the option to make sexual health decisions without parental influence taken away from those teens who do need that option. Parents furious about losing their own "rights" over their teenage children are forgetting that angle.

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by prothyraia 

I'm for it.

If they're physically old enough to procreate, they're old enough to have control over medical decisions directly related to that.   Including those decisions related to prevention, like birth control, STD prevention, and these vaccinations. 

If 12 year olds are having sex, there are bigger problems to address than the possibility of catching HPV, which most people are infected with anyway. For example, if a 12 year old is seeking out an HPV vaccine because she is having sex, the health professional administering the vaccine has a legal obligation, under mandatory reporting laws, to report. In California, it is a felony for someone 18 or older to have sex with a 12 year old. It is a misdemeanor for someone under 18 to have sex with a 12 year old.

Edited by ma2two - 9/4/11 at 9:04pm

[purslaine]

I think 12 is too young.  I do think older teens should be able to consent to medical procedure - I do not have a hard and fast date in my head, but 16 seems right. 

I live in Ontario, where in theory 12 year olds could be deemed mature minors and capable of making a vaccine choice.

Vaccines happen at school here. I do not want the nurse pressuring my children to take a vax, and the fact that all or almost all their friends are taking the vax just adds to the pressure.  My daughter (age 12) had her whole class called in one by one last year for some vax.  She told them she was not supposed to receive the vax and the nurse said "oh, yes you are".   DD said her mom did not sign the form, nurse went to find it, and DD was released unvaxxed (phew!)  Had it been me at 12 and a nurse told me I was receiving a vax I would have just rolled up a sleeve - I was not capable at that age of standing up to authority.

FWIW, I have kept my DD home on other vax days - I did not know this "vax" day was coming.  

If California passes the law, and people keep kids out on vax days, I wonder if truancy or "unexcused absences" will come into play?

Edited by purslaine - 9/5/11 at 6:42am

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

If California passes the law, and people keep kids out on vax days, I wonder if truancy or "unexcused absences" will come into play?

OR, will the school play catch-up and ensure the kids that were out on vaccine day are approached thereafter for a chance at the vaccine the next day?

[nia82]

My point is I will be open with my kids. I would not forbid contraception, but I would not approve of hormonal stuff. If my teenie decided on sex, which I hope she will not, I will endorse condoms. I have had a case of stroke in my family from the birth control pill, and my children will know how scary that stuff is. Do I want my teenage girl do suffer from a stroke? No. I have a very strong opinion on hormonal birth control as I have seen its terrible, horrible dangers first hand. And it is completely unnecessary.

[happymommy1]

http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php  feel free to email immediately if you disagree! It seems concerning that this is being pushed thru! While you are at it email about the circumcision has medical benefits legislation they are trying to get him to sign..obviously it doesn't have med benefits and the law is in contradiction with the fgm and 14th amendments of the u.s.!

[happymommy1]

oh and if my little ones wanted bc or a vax i would listen but they know we have a history of vax reactions in the fam so we don't vax anymore. If my kids are of consenting age, usually 18, they can choose for themselves this includes vaxing, tattoos, etc

[karmacat]

Interesting that the HPV vaccine is administered at 12 at all, let alone the fact that now it awaits the governor's decision -- especially in light of this  (Gardasil contamination)

[BeckyBird]

Karmacat, thanks for that link. Everyone should read it!

Can I talk about politics, when it involves vaccines? Well, Rick Perry signed an executive order requiring Texas’ girls to have the Gardasil  vaccine against the HPV virus. The only ones allowed to opt out were the ones who knew their rights. The majority of people did not know they could opt out.  How many girls have been injured by this, I wonder?

So, no matter how flashy he is on the campaign trail, he will not get my vote.

[pers]

Originally Posted by karmacat 

Interesting that the HPV vaccine is administered at 12 at all, let alone the fact that now it awaits the governor's decision -- especially in light of this  (Gardasil contamination)

Sadly, sex is by no means uncommon among young teenagers.  It's not as if they can look in to a crystal ball and see which young teens are going to be having sex in the next year or so and so could benefit from the vaccine and which are actually going to abstain and so would be safe waiting longer to get it.  

But how did they determine the vaccines were contaminated?  The information comes from one source, a source which seems to have quite an anti-vax agenda, and for some bizarre reason they refuse to release their methodology.  Are they hiding something, such as a very unreliable test that may not be accurate but they like because it shows the results they want to get?  Without a lot more info and an independent verification, those particular claims are not worth wasting time worrying about.  http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/beware-hpv-dna-in-gardasil/

[Mirzam]

Gardasil, fairywands and bulldust.

Sitting back watching the medical and political system defending Gardasil is quite amusing. First, the usual bloggers who fall under the “anti the anti-vaccine people” catagory, take uneducated speculative ranting swipes (and I’m not providing URLs because their ignorance is worse than their insolence), and then, as usual, the media doesn’t understand the significance of this issue.  Either that, or they have been told to shut up. None of them lived through the polio/SV40 debacle, and ants have longer institutional memory than journalists living under high pressure situations where the motto is “write, present and forget”. 

Ouch!

Another article on the Sane Vax findings:

FDA questioned about genetically engineered HPV DNA in Gardasil worldwide

[purslaine]

On Gardasil  (not related to contamination, I simply have grave concerns at this point in time about this vax - moreso than other vaxxes)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml

[philomom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

On Gardasil  (not related to contamination, I simply have grave concerns at this point in time about this vax - moreso than other vaxxes)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml

Me, too. So many girls have been injured by this vaccine. I told my soon- to- be -18 year old daughter, I'd rather she get a tattoo than Gardisil ... and I loathe tattoos.