"reasonably wealthy" (spin off) - Page 6

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by seawitch 


When I was a kid we used to take thrice yearly trips to everywhere, Europe, the Caribbean, all around the U.S. But what's funny is that my family growing up was really rich. My father would go off on shopping sprees and buy thousands of dollars worth of shoes and belts, or buy my mom closets and closets of clothes and jewelry and opera tickets. But they never once sent me to camp or bought me electronic games. They had three luxury cars at the time and only my dad drove. He also had a chauffeur. They said that after school activities and sports would cost too much, so I never got to do a single one growing up, even though that was unheard of in my town. We had like a 5000 square foot house in the CT suburbs, a huge apartment in Manhattan, and a summer cabin as well. When I was sick they didn't take me to the doctor because they didn't bother paying for health insurance for me.

 

I'm not sure what to say, but I couldn't read that and not say anything. I find that really disturbing, and more than a little messed up. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your parents these days, but they sound appallingly self-centered and selfish. I'm sorry they treated you as such a low priority when you were growing up.

They always told me that they weren't wealthy. Are you kidding me? My mom still attests to the fact that they were just average. Mmmph. A LOT of rich people think they're "just average" imo...

I haven't really run across that, but it sounds really frustrating to listen to.

 

I honestly don't know where we'd fit in. DH makes slightly more than the median household income for our region. We're a single income family, so we only have the work-related costs for one person (but we also pay more tax than if we had the same income from two earners). We don't have to pay childcare. OTOH, most of the numbers I've seen for families are based on a family of four, and we're a family of six. I suspect we come in pretty close to average, overall. But, except for not being able to buy a house (housing prices in the Vancouver area are truly insane), I think we've got it pretty easy. We're definitely better off than my family was when I was growing up. We weren't poor - my parents owned a house (admittedly, it was more of a shack), but housing prices were much, much lower, even allowing for inflation, back then. But, dh and I eat better than we did (mom cooked from scratch, and had a vegetable garden, so we ate a reasonably healthy diet, but we didn't have anywhere near the variety that dh and I have...and we ate a lot of ground beef). We have more money for activities for the kids than my parents had, and that's a high priority item for us, as we're homeschooling, and want them to able to see and try a lot of different things. We don't eat out or get pizza all that often, but more often than my parents did (we ate out a few times a year, mostly because mom and dad wanted us to learn how to behave in a restaurant). We're certainly quite comfortable, wherever we'd fit into a graph of "wealth"...but we also don't have much in savings, and our savings rate isn't as high as it should be.

 

Edited by Storm Bride - 6/23/11 at 11:24pm

[AllisonR]

Funny story: my dad is so far to the right and I am such a flaming liberal that we don't even argue. We know there is such a huge sea of difference between us that why should we even bother, we can never meet. But growing up, he always said the funniest things: "It's a democracy, and I have 51% of the vote." And my favorite "You are such a liberal, but wait until you make over 100k a year, then even you will be a republican." What did he think, that I would just flip all my political and social beliefs based on my income? This still makes me laugh.

I would consider myself wealthy. And privileged. And having the luxury to say "I can't quit my job even though I hate it." Because reality is that it is not that I can't quit my job, it is that I won't. I want to live in the house we live in, in this neighborhood, I want to be able to redo my kitchen, I want to be able to go on vacation, and to be frank, I am so independent I don't want to heap all the financial responsibility on DH. But it isn't true that I can't quit, and trying to convince myself otherwise would just be dishonest. We would not go hungry, our kitchen from 74 looks totally out of date but there is very little actually wrong with it... These are all extras, and that means that I am privileged.

And it also bugs me when people with money are dishonest with themselves, saying "I can't do ABC or by XYZ" when in reality it is that they don't because they prioritize other items. I think it is totally fair for everyone to prioritize however they want. But then own up to it,as a choice.   

ITA with the PP who said many rich people call themselves upper-middle-class. Or upper-socio-ecconomic class. Or whatever. Though class often has very little to do with class. 

[K1329]

I think the definitions of wealthy, rich, middle class, etc. can vary widely from person to person.
To me, the definition of rich is having enough investments/assets or net worth to not have to work, yet still live comfortably. IMO, if you must work, you are not rich.

[seawitch]

Storm Bridge:

Well, the relationship with my father was pretty sketchy. He said he would pay for my grad school like he did for my other sisters (that they never even told me I had until I was 18) but after I got accepted and couldn't change the private pay option he said he'd only do it if I broke up with my boyfriend (now husband). I refused; he cut me off and wouldn't speak to me again. He died a few years later and he left my mom five million and left me $10. That I'll get when I turn 35.

So that's about that.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by seawitch 

Storm Bridge:

Well, the relationship with my father was pretty sketchy. He said he would pay for my grad school like he did for my other sisters (that they never even told me I had until I was 18) but after I got accepted and couldn't change the private pay option he said he'd only do it if I broke up with my boyfriend (now husband). I refused; he cut me off and wouldn't speak to me again. He died a few years later and he left my mom five million and left me $10. That I'll get when I turn 35.

So that's about that.

I don't suppose you need anyone to tell you that is M.E.S.S.E.D. up. Mind games are so not worth it. Not even worth 5 million. For sure. Money, even given "free and clear" often has HUGE unwritten strings attached, if given by the wrong person. Even by the right person. I once owed 4000 dollars to my parents, which is very little but was a lot for me when I was so young. And they are kind, loving people, but there were still some subtle unwritten stings attachd to that debt I owed. I can not express the freedom and independence and relief I had paying it off. I have never owed anyone a penny since. I would rather (and have) eaten cold leftover soup for a week and be slighly hungry, than have someone be able to mess with my head over something like money. OK, that's my issue, and I can see I am getting off track. Just wanted to send you hugs seawitch. Also, I don't think a will like that would be valid - leaving someone 10 bucks when they are 35. But anyway, seems to me it was a favor he did, not speaking to you. You don't need that degree of disease in your life.
 

[seawitch]

I know. Well, the will was perfectly valid, but I suppose I could have contested it. My mom ended up giving me some money anyway as a consolation prize or whatever but she was basically in control of how it was spent - which was basically on the grandkids. Whatever, that was fine, at least my kids got some nice things.

I think the way I "rebelled" against that kind of upbringing was to (subconsciously) not put much worth in money. He tried to use money to control us and I just didn't care to play into that. So I cultivated other sorts of wealth than money. Time wealth, self-sustainability, frugality, etc. Family togetherness. None of which he put much value on. Looking back I think I kind of self-defeated myself a few times when I could have been making more money. Now that I'm almost 30 I'm just now starting to seriously get some perspective on it. Their attitude towards money was unhealthy, but totally shunning money is not healthy either.

ETA: There were all sorts of other unhealthy things going on in our relationship. For example he tried over and over again to go into my teachers to tell them that I cheated/forged a paper when I never would have dreamed of it. In high school it worked. He tried to do it in college too but my professor there straight up told him to get out of his classroom because he knew I was in attendance when I said I was, etc. But in high school I got in tons of trouble. And I never, ever did anything like cheating or anything. Hell, when I graduated from college with a 3.8 GPA he said I had forged the diploma and he refused to believe I graduated. (Though I wonder if that had to do with the fact that he promised me a car and one of the many family apartments if I graduated, and of course never got.) Or they'd take my whole extended family on a cruise to the Caribbean but they wouldn't even tell me about their plans to do that until they needed me to take my spring break off to come house-sit for them while they were gone. Etc.
Edited by seawitch - 6/24/11 at 5:48am

[meemee]

Originally Posted by seawitch 
I think the way I "rebelled" against that kind of upbringing was to (subconsciously) not put much worth in money. He tried to use money to control us and I just didn't care to play into that. So I cultivated other sorts of wealth than money. Time wealth, self-sustainability, frugality, etc. Family togetherness. None of which he put much value on. Looking back I think I kind of self-defeated myself a few times when I could have been making more money. Now that I'm almost 30 I'm just now starting to seriously get some perspective on it. Their attitude towards money was unhealthy, but totally shunning money is not healthy either.

It is so strange to me to read a 'stranger's' post as if she had written it for me. I can so relate to your attitude towards money. HOwever i wasnt disinherited. i just moved countries where my assessts werent worth much. When I went back to visit, my uncle who lives in a world of his own and rarely is aware of what is going on commented on my parenting and my relationship with my dd.

however i will say 'shunning' money gave me the courage to do what i love. the field i am going into, the path i have chosen i would have never been able to do if i didnt 'shun' money. i really feel i understand the 'worth' of money. i see it for what it is. paper. yes you do need a certain amount. but abject poverty and being super rich in my humble opinion is the same 'curse'. it looks different. its just different sides of the same coin. 

so yes i too have 'cultivated' other sorts of wealth (dont think i did it consciously though) and my life now without money is far richer than my life with money ever was. 

[Linda on the move]

Thank you for sharing your stories!

My family of origin was crazy and abusive, and although they lacked they wealth that some of your families had, money and status symbols were VERY important to them. (They just weren't as successful with it was your families!) Reading about your experiences is helping to clarify some of my own attitudes towards money and success. 

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by seawitch 

Storm Bridge:

Well, the relationship with my father was pretty sketchy. He said he would pay for my grad school like he did for my other sisters (that they never even told me I had until I was 18) but after I got accepted and couldn't change the private pay option he said he'd only do it if I broke up with my boyfriend (now husband). I refused; he cut me off and wouldn't speak to me again. He died a few years later and he left my mom five million and left me $10. That I'll get when I turn 35.

So that's about that.

Umm...wow. I thought my grandmother was bad (actually - she was!) at the whole trying to control people through money thing. Your dad is something else again. (And, seriously - he left your mom $5 million, and she says they were "just average"???) That's seriously messed up.

I did something similar to you, actually. I think it was partly my upbringing, because my parents were people who just didn't care that much about money. (My mom has worked hard to build wealth, in the form of real estate, but that was a security thing - there was never any emphasis on having money or on spending money, yk?) But, I also consciously chose at an early age not to allow myself to be "bought" - and it drove my grandma crazy. My brother and sister both, in different ways, fell into the web, and I can still see the effects of it...and grandma died 21 or 22 years ago.