"reasonably wealthy" (spin off) - Page 3

[Adaline'sMama]

Oh, and also, I think the two private schools in my small town are both upwards of $15,000 per year, per kid. So if someone can spend $30,000 a year on private school , that makes me think they are wealthy. That is about what we make a year.

[elmh23]

Private schools have a large range of tuitions in one are.  My kids attend a private school and will until 8th grade.  For all three to go, it will cost $12,000 for one school year.  The private high schools range from $11,000 to $23,000.  My kids will not be attending.

And while yes, I spend $8,000 in tuition fees (only two of my kids are school age), I know families that spend that much or more on gymnastics and horse backing and other activities.  My kids do the cheap activities at the community center ($13 a year.)

[meemee]

reasonably wealthy to me is a person who has enough to meet the best level of basic needs and still has money to spend on luxuries. private schooling is not a basic need but a luxury. 

yes you may maintain a middle fo the line in everything by sending your kids to public school, but doing one at the cost of the other is not reasonably wealthy. 

[cyclamen]

Our income is slightly above the median for our city, but we qualified for WIC, medicaid, and are only about $900 a year away from qualifying for food stamps.  If we had a second baby, there'd be no question.  What that tells me is that a large number of people living in our city must be living well below the poverty line.  That boggles my mind.  We rent a lead safe apartment, have one car (paid off before I quit working), no savings, an internet subscription, a moderate amount of student loan debt, no credit cards, and I stay home.  We are happy.  We buy as little as possible (even from the thrift store), but we do try to get the best food we can.  I have no doubt that we are living better than many... but I often wonder how others get by because it is not easy for us.

[K1329]

Originally Posted by meemee 

reasonably wealthy to me is a person who has enough to meet the best level of basic needs and still has money to spend on luxuries. private schooling is not a basic need but a luxury.

yes you may maintain a middle fo the line in everything by sending your kids to public school, but doing one at the cost of the other is not reasonably wealthy.

In our area, I don't view private school as a luxury. Public schools here have a dismal graduation rate, low test scores, & in school criminal activity. We pay 3000.00 per yr tuition, & I very much view it as a necessity. I do, however, agree that having access to wants in addition to needs might be one way to define reasonably wealthy.

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

We may move that way, if dh can find work there. If he can't, it won't work out for us, and definitely wouldn't be more relaxed. He's legally blind and I'd have to drive out to Vancouver, with the kids, every day, so that he could go to work. Any lifestyle gains we'd make financially would be more than offset by that.

It's a tradeoff indeed.  DH spends a lot of money commuting from Abbotsford to Langley where he then picks up a work vehicle to go into Vancouver to work much of the time.  It's a lot more time this way, but the COL (housing!) is so much lower that it's worth it for us.   We wouldn't be able to make the same decision if I had to drive him both ways because I would go absolutely bonkers. 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by K1329 


In our area, I don't view private school as a luxury.

For one of my kids it is a luxury, but for the other it isn't. One of my kids is on the autism spectrum and this is really what she needs. For the other one, it's just a bonus. She would do fine at our local public school, but this is better for her and she likes it more, and it's more important *to me* than the new car.

On a more general note, I've been poor (I left my abusive home when I was a teen) and my very favorite thing about having *enough* money is being able to buy what I want at the grocery store. I'll never forget being in a store and carefully selecting a few items and planning around what was the cheapest food that would last me the longest. I remember wanting to buy strawberries, but not having enough money to buy them and buy beans and potatoes, and the strawberries wouldn't fill me up. Every single time I buy fruit I feel lucky. When my kids were little one of my favorite points of the week was going to the grocery store with them and letting them each pick whichever fruit they wanted.

[meemee]

oh yes. i agree in certain cases - crime or PG or special needs private school no longer becomes an exception. 

[mamacolleen]

My understanding of wealth is that it describes one's financial assets and not income. So if you own property, a house, have savings of any kind, investments, etc, then you have wealth. In other countries wealth includes livestock and women's jewellery. It's a mechanism to have some degree of protection from financial ruin. Of course, income and wealth are related in that if you have more income, you are generally in a better position to acquire more financial assets but there's not a direct automatic causation. Of course lots of other things factor into that: COL where you live, your financial literacy, job security, etc.

The "reasonable" part of it is completely subjective and can't be quantified. It's based on values, expectations, spending habits, priorities, how you choose to compare your situation with those around you, etc. Things discussed in this thread as being markers of wealth (private schools, cars, being able to afford some luxuries, etc) are not strictly indicators of wealth since they are consumables and mainly reflect your values, priorities and life circumstances.

I also think it's an extremely useful exercise to compare oneself with others beyond one's immediate community. Wealth as possession of assets is out of reach of the vast majority of the world's people. When I think of it this way, I quickly go from feeling not really wealthy at all, to feeling incredibly wealthy.

[Tigerchild]

I consider "reasonably wealthy" (with emphasis on the 'reasonable') to be the following:

*has money left over from paying necessities

*able to purchase most things new (even if they choose not to) rather than relying on thrift stores/freecycle out of pure necessity.

*would be able to survive for at least 6 months after a job loss due to assets/investments/savings.

I know lots of people who appear wealthier than us but whom I do NOT consider reasonably wealthy because of that last qualification.  A lot of people who people ASSume are wealthy because of their clothing, cars, housing, ect. are really just one paycheck away from the brink.  If that is you, even if you drive a rolls royce and eat bonbons, you're not wealthy.  At least to me.

I agree that compared to the majority of the human population, the worst off American or Canadian citizen is fabulously wealthy.  I think that the majority of Americans who "appear wealthy" are anything but.

Our family drives 10+ year old cars, doesn't go on expensive vacations, lives in modest house, shops at thrift stores and freecyle as a lifestyle decision, brown-bags it at school/work...but we are wealthier IMO that most of the people living in the McMansion development up the street because we are in no danger of foreclosure, could go a year without anyone in the house being paid (and have done so in a pinch/as part of working for a startup, it would hurt but we could so totally do it, esp. since we have NO consumer debt), and if the real estate signs I see popping up like daisies are any indication, a lot of our FAR wealthier appearing neighbors are not able to do that.,

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by rachieface 

From a global perspective, if you're on this forum, you ARE reasonably wealthy.  You either own a computer with internet or have access to one.  That's a big deal in many parts of the world.

I know that misses the point of this thread, but that's just to say that wealth is incredibly subjective.

I think about this a lot, too.  My good friend, across the street, has 4 kids at home like we do; is a SAHM like I am; and has a husband who works in a project-based industry like mine does (think periodic temporary unemployment).  So, we discuss/commiserate about our financial situations sometimes and what we can/can't afford and how we make ends meet.  She cares more about fashion and interior decorating than I do.  (Not that she sacrifices the important things, for these...but she wishes she could have high fashion AND the important things.  Whereas, I would HOPE that if I could afford to buy whatever I wanted at Pottery Barn and J. Crew, that I would still have the sense to go to Target and garage sales instead, and save or donate my money.)  Anyway, I know my neighbor really thinks of herself (and me, too, I guess) as poor.  

But I often think that, to so many people in the world, the fact that I'm sharing 1,700 square feet with only 5 other people and not my entire extended family; that I have safe, running water whenever I want it; a big yard; a reliable (if used) vehicle; and I never have to worry about how I'm going to feed or clothe my kids (even if a lot of the clothes are 2nd-hand, we have plenty of them!)...would sound like living in the lap of luxury!

Then, when I talk to friends my own age who are in a much better financial situation than we are, I wonder if all my globalizing is genuine gratitude, or a way of avoiding thinking about improvements DH and I should make, in how we manage our money?
 

[Lisa1970]

I think reasonably wealthy will probably always be 50K more than you currently earn. But, the amount you currently earn is so different.

I think reasonably wealthy is an awful term. I mean..when it is wealthy..can you really put the word "reasonably" in front of it? I would call those with 1 million or more a year to be reasonably wealthy. But I think to someone who lives in poverty, someone with 50K a year might seem wealthy. Plus, things are different in different parts of the country and different parts of the world.

[ancoda]

I do believe that the amount would vary a lot from state to state and even within a state mattering if you are in a big city or rural.   If my DH was able to make here in Eastern Idaho what he was making in Portland, Or we would be pretty comfortable financially right now.  

I think adaline'smama covered it pretty good below what I agree makes you Reasonably wealthy.
 

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Reasonably Wealthy (to me):
~never having to contemplate applying for government assistance- you dont qualify.
~being able to donate your clothes, shoes, furniture, ect to goodwill while its still in good condition (you just "never wear" something that you bought instead of wearing them slap out and HAVING to get new shoes)
~having cable television, internet phone plans, the internet at home, and a car that was made within the decade (note that I said AND, not OR. Any one thing doesnt symbolize wealth to me, but all of them together do)
~sending kids to private school without HUGE sacrifices. If you own a home, have a fairly new car, send your kid to private school and still can go on summer vacation..you are a WHOLE lot more wealthy than me because I cant afford ONE of those things, much less all of them.
~Personalize licensed plates. Ive always just thought if you can afford that, you can have more money than sense, but I have now learned that in a lot of states it doesnt cost very much.


Yep, thats it. But, I am not even in the middle class, so my opinion of wealth is relative.

[mamadebug]

I don't know what "relatively wealthy" means.  But, if it was a comment made on the welfare thread, I know from growing up in a household with a single mom on an incredibly tight budget, that when you are used to living that way financially, any financial freedom can feel extravagant and "wealthy".  If I stand back and look at my life now and am objective, I am not wealthy.  But, I still feel really "wealthy" every time I go into Whole Foods and basically buy what I want.  My mom used to borrow my babysitting money to buy groceries - the idea of going into a high end grocery store and getting what you want simply would have never happened when I was a kid.  Sooo, I think that a lot of this is perspective - what a person is used to having, what others around you have and the geographical area you live in.  

Also, I don't think sending kids to private school is a marker of wealth necessarily.  I remember having utilities turned off as a kid - but I still went to private schools.  There was a time when my grandparents paid for it and mostly I received financial aid.  Most private schools give financial aid.  

[mammal_mama]

I've also heard some people refer to homeschooling as a luxury. And I kind of do see it as a luxury that either dh or I is always able to be with our girls. Not everyone is able to do that.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by AutumnAir 

The fact that you can afford to pay for your kids to go to private school means you're reasonably wealthy IMO.  Even if that does mean having to budget elsewhere.  But, as far as I'm concerned the ability to afford private school is definitely a wealth marker.

 I completely disagree with this. I have friends who managed to put there kids through private schools and on to college and I think it is a matter of hard work (side jobs) and being resourceful, not a measure of wealth. 

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

My kids school, even for highschool, cost less the the least expensive private school in your state. They do a great job with kids with mild special needs and 2E kids, and the parents who are making the biggest sacrifices to have a child there have kids who simply cannot be served well by public school (which are very badly funded and overcrowded here). One is a single mom, who's DD has Aspergers' and they live in tiny apartment and the mom drives a car that looks like it is about to fall apart.  So yes, the mom has more money than someone who can't afford the school but still lives in a tiny apartment and drives a falling apart car, but she isn't wealthy.

BUT that does explain why someone would assume that I'm "reasonably wealthy" since my kids are in private school.

I've really enjoyed reading everyone's responses and the links on Wikepedia.

The cost of living thing is part of what keeps me from feeling 'wealthy.'  We've lived all over with DH's job, and I see what we have as so relative. I so many people with less, but many people with more. The amount of money my DH makes  goes a long way in some places, and not so far in others. 

I just feel middle. 

I'm starting think I just don't like the word "wealthy."  It doesn't seem to mean anything but "more than I have."

I do, however, feel very blessed. Mostly to have my sweet children, and second to have a sweet relationship with my DH. And I also feel blessed that while we need to make choices with our money, we GET to make choices. We have a certain amount of power and control over our lives because we have enough to money to decide what is most important to us. I feel blessed.

I pretty much agree with all of this and also live in an area where private school isn't a wealth marker (although there is ONE private school in town that probably is).

I think it is really hard to make the call of wealthy. I feel "comfortable" because we can go out to eat and always have money to pay the bills and such. But determining your own wealth based on what others around you are doing can be very misleading. You know that old saying - Big hat, no cattle. It happens. People with the most, best, or newest things may also be in a world of debt.

DH read the book The Millionaire Next Door and it was really interesting.

ETA: On a global perspective, yes I feel wealthy. In my community - Not.
 

[CatsCradle]

This has been an interesting thread.  I think there are people who are wealthy (large net worth; no debt, or debt that is less than net worth; ability to choose from and utilize a wide range of resources).  Then, I think there are people who are comfortable (have financial security either/or in savings, retirement, investments; no debt or debt that is manageable; better choice of resources but not on the scale of wealthy people).  Then there are those who seem to fall squarely in middle class status (ability to feed, shelter, travel and pay for certain resources, which may be seen as luxury items, but obtainable if within budget; a portion would have debt like a mortgage, student loans, etc.; some savings).  Then there are some who live somewhere in the pergatory of middle class and poor, who survive okay, but are forced to be frugal out of necessity.  DH and I were in this group for a long time.  We weren't poor in a food/shelter sense, but we had very little economic freedom in that our choices of where to live, what to wear, where to travel, etc. were extremely limited. 

So I guess for me, it boils down to economic freedom.  Like Linda, I would define DH and I as somewhere squarely in the middle.  We have savings, a mortgage, some student loans, ability to rent a car if we want to visit friends/relatives, ability to send DD to a certain private school because it fits within our budget.  At this stage in my life, however, I wouldn't view us comfortable because we're still forced to exercise frugality on some levels and we remain keenly aware of the idea that any severe change in the economic environment could risk our jobs/income.  From my perspective, the wealthy and comfortable folks tend to have less of these financial worries.  Not all, but I think there is a certain sense of safety when you've reached a certain worth/income level. 

Edited by CatsCradle - 6/17/11 at 8:39am

[kathymuggle]

I am the one who said Linda might be reasonably wealthy.  I said so based on her DH's job and on the 2 kids in private school.  However, I realise I was absolutely making assumptions about her wealth based on the income of professionals and cost of private school in my area.  My bad.

I do  think it is posssible in some areas for kids to go to private school without being wealthy.  Many middle class families can manage it, often with sacrifice.  I do not think poor people (with  few exceptions) can afford private school.  If you are poor, no matter the cost of the private school, it will be too much.

I think the posters who spoke of choice as being a central to wealth were bang on.  I also agree with the poster who mentionned assets in relation to wealth.  When all is said and done, if you have high income but poor money management skills and no assets, you would be up the creek if your income dried up.  One of the very cool things about having money is the security it brings.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I am the one who said Linda might be reasonably wealthy.  I said so based on her DH's job and on the 2 kids in private school.  However, I realise I was absolutely making assumptions about her wealth based on the income of professionals and cost of private school in my area.  My bad.

I do  think it is posssible in some areas for kids to go to private school without being wealthy.  Many middle class families can manage it, often with sacrifice.

Most mothering.com users agree with you! Most (but not all) of the people who responded to this thread have definitions of "reasonably wealthy" that include my family. We just aren't floating in dough to the degree that you imagined.