Need advice:roomate yells at her 3 week old baby

[luv2kayak]

I have a newer roommate who just had a baby last month. After delivery she stayed with her mom for a couple weeks and is now back home where we share an apt. Her baby is now a month old. Last week I noticed that when her baby cries, she yells at her a little. (well, says the babies name loudly in a disapproving way/manner to her) She has mentioned that her baby manipulates her and starts to fuss and cry just when she's trying to get something done or cleaned. I was beside myself.... no baby is mentally capable of doing any such thing. RM also has a 4 yr old son and now he has started to say the babies name loudly and angrily when she cries. He hears his mom doing it and is picking up the habit now himself. I have heard this going on a few times now and I'm concerned. RM seems to be feeding and changing her baby, so I don't think this is a case of postpardum depression, but I'm not sure. She spanks, (or "whoops" as her son calls it, when he begs her not to) her son and actually last night smacked him upside his head when he didn't flush the toilet and wash his hands after going to the bathroom. (come on, he's 4, and forgets sometimes. A gentle reminder is way more effective, plus she had him up to almost 11pm and he was tired) I'm worried that if she's yelling at a baby barely a month old, feels like the baby is actually fussing on purpose when she is wanting to get things done around the house.... will she spank her baby too? :-/ She has been acting very agitated (and I understand she's probably over-tired and stressed) so it's been hard to find a good time to attempt to say anything to her. I know she'd get defensive and it would get no where. Any advise/input? Am I worried over nothing? Should I mind my own business and let her raise her kids without meddling? (sp?)

[maeby]

maybe you could offer to take the big brother for the afternoon so that she can nap with baby.

[4evermom]

Watching big brother so she can nap is a good idea.  Most people parent better when they are well rested.  You could also leave some appropriate light reading material (like parenting articles/magazines) lying around.  That way, any advice isn't coming from you and won't make her feel defensive/criticized.  And it's natural you'd be reading up on such things since you are pregnant.  

[rubidoux]

I don't have any advice, other than maybe holding the baby for her if she's getting uptight.  But I don't think you're worried over nothing.  That's not a good start, imo.  Does she have any help from the father or her mother?

[One_Girl]

I suggest offering to help out with the cleaning or child care so she can get sleep and focus on bonding with the new baby.  If you know the name of her doctor you may be able to give them a heads up that she may be suffering from ppd so they can probe a little more deeply when they see her next.

[cinderella08]

I'd casually mention something - very nicely - when you see her yell at the baby.  Something like  "oh, i'm sure he/she isn't meaning to upset you or keep you from x,y,z...".  Gauge her response. Go from there.  Perhaps if she tells you she is just overwhelmed - offer to take the baby - or the older sibling.  She may even feel comfy enough to confide in you that she's dealing with some PPD.  You never know.

[LynnS6]

PPD takes many forms -- anxiety, agitation and anger is one form.

Or it could be that she didn't have any decent parenting models and thus truly doesn't know what to do when she's stressed and tired. (And any mom with a 4 year old and a newborn that she's raising by herself is going to be stressed and tired.) Ask if you can help. When you hear her yell at the baby, you might say "you sound a little stressed. Would you like me to hold him while you take a breather?"

[Mizelenius]

Everything you mentioned are red flags to me that she has no clue about appropriate expectations for children's development.  This can become a serious issue when there are physical consequences, like hitting her 4 y.o.  You are right to be concerned.

The yelling could escalate-- she could eventually shake the infant and the infant would have either serious developmental issues or die.  Even shaking under a minute could do it.  Not trying to scare you but what you are describing is a bad start with a 1 month old baby.  Remind her that if the baby cries, the baby will be OK-- she can put the baby down in a safe place and walk away for a few minutes for a break.  Keep reminding her that this is OK.  Many people believe that babies shouldn't cry, get annoyed with crying, or think they SHOULD be able to make them stop crying.  By giving parents permission to take a break, telling them that crying is normal, etc. it does help-- a lot.  Babies don't die from crying but they do from being shaken.  80% of all fatalities when it comes to child abuse/neglect happen to children ages 3 and under.

First of all, I would model as much as possible.  If the 4 y.o. forgets to flush the toilet/wash his hands (or whatever) and she starts to get mad, step in.  Say, "Here, let me help him-- here is the soap.  I've forgotten to flush sometimes, too!"  Ignore the fact that she is mad and play dumb.  If there is some consistent problem like washing hands, you could make a small change-- get him fun soap so that (1) he'll be more likely to remember and (2) it will give her an idea.  While washing his hands with him, sing a goofy song or even just "Happy Birthday."  That will also help him remember AND again, give her the idea that it is OK to have fun teaching your child.

The main thing that is important is for her to see how she can enjoy her children and appreciate them.  Talk about them both in positive ways-- talk about how smart her baby is to cry in order to communicate-- that she knows how to survive.  (Do this when she is not upset.) Talk about how cute her son is, and how you saw him do x, y, or z.  Help her see her children in a new light.  Help her see that they are normal and not out to get her.  Hold the baby as much as you can when the mom is stressed, and talk about how beautiful she is.  Any way that YOU can connect with the kids will help, but never to show her up-- more to appreciate them for their sake and their mom's.

If you see hitting escalating with the 4 y.o. (leaving marks) or ANY kind of abuse with the infant, you HAVE to report the mom ASAP.  There are too many cases of children either having developmental problems or dying due to maltreatment when MANY adults knew about it.  These are the worst cases to me-- people knew and did nothing.  This is a great (short!) video to show how WE have to be advocates, not matter what: Child Abuse: A Perspective

ETA Great articles here: http://www.handinhandparenting.org/articles

Edited by Mizelenius - 6/14/11 at 9:19am

[K1329]

Can you look up some resources for her? Free parenting classes, moms day out programs? It sounds as if she is overwhelmed and could use some help.
I tried to help a friend who parents more harshly than I'm comfortable with. On my and others suggestions, she has attended classes, sees a therapist, and has made a lot of progress, but, ultimately, I've found myself distancing myself from her. My friend's parenting style is harsh - but not the definition of abusive. And, in the end, I can't be around it & don't want my kids around it.

[luv2kayak]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions everyone. While she was still preg, I did more around the apt- always took out the trash, cleaned and helped her with laundry etc and when she came home, I had a few dinners made and frozen for her to just heat up and eat. I know a newborn and a 4 yr old is a lot and I wanted her to be able to focus on the kids and herself, and not have to worry about house chores. I already have been doing things with 4 yr old like games, reading etc, as I have not once seen her have any interation with him. He was always left to entertain himself, and was starving for her affection.=( I have tried to involve her in games and activities but she seems to have some excuse, like she has phone calls to make or she was about to take a shower and can't right now. Seriously, there are a lot of things not ok about her. I feel SO bad for her kids. Needless to say, I did try to sit and talk to her and it went very badly. I was careful not to judge, ridicule or make her feel inadequate, but it simply went very bad, and she started swearing and screaming at me and I asked her to please calm down, that I'm her friend, etc... but she got irate immediately and wasn't able to calm down. I had to walk away. The next day, I simply asked if I could get her son and have him help me make cookies, and she snapped at me, said no, he's fine watching his movie (she has him in front of tv most of the day) and I said, hey, I remember how tired I'd get after I had Zac (my son who is now 21) and I just want to be here for you. While he watches his movie, I can take the baby for you and you can have some time to yourself. She said no thanks and walked into her room. She left the baby in her bouncy in the dining room and I started to make cookies. A bit later the baby started to fuss and then cry. I went over to her and noticed she looked hungry. (kept putting hands in mouth and such) I knocked on RM bedroom door and asked if she wanted me to make a bottle but no answer. I knocked again and she came storming out and pushed me aside. I don't understand. At the hospital when she had her lil girl, she handed her to me on her own and I rocked her and stayed a bit and we talked. I commented on how great she looked and how amazing it was she was getting around so well, as I told her after having my son zac 21 years ago, I was extremely sore and it was hard and very painful getting around for a few days. We hugged when I left and things seemed fine. But since she's been back from her moms she is just acting stranger than I've ever seen her. I mean, I didn't ever agree with how she treated her son before she had her baby girl, but now she is also acting threatening towards me and it is NOT ok. She was loud and was banging stuff around in the kitchen she scared her son as he came into dining room and was watching her and he started to cry. I said, please, you don't need to get this way, you're scaring your son, and me too for that matter. Well, this is when she came running at me and got up in my face swearing loudly to where I ended up backed into the refrigerator. Ooook... I said to her she is not ok, needs to get some help, and I'm here if she needs me. I went to take her son back to watch his movie and she screamed at him to go in his room for whining and waking his sister. WHAT?! ... I'm thinking.... the baby was crying way before her son... I was at a loss and went to my room and left her alone. Then last night I truly figured she'd maybe apologize or something, but nope. We were both in the kitchen again as I was making juice and she came in. I said, "Hey, how are ya?" but she said nothing. So I figured I'd leave her alone. Well her son came in and asked for a yogurt and she handed him one. When he was opening it he dropped it on the floor and oh man, not good. Some was on the cupboard door and floor and she grabbed his arm and pushed him aside, grabbed the yogurt and flung it in the sink, where I was standing mind you, filling the pitcher for juice with water and it hit my arm. I said, "Hey, come on..." as that wasn't necessary. Then I tried to make light of it and said how I can never get those lids off either and I've spilled them too trying to open them where all of a sudden the lid just peels off really fast after I've had to use all my might so I end up with yogurt on my stomach or arm. Well, nothing from her except she yelled to her son to get out and what was he just standing there for, that he should have asked for help with the yogurt. Well, she is the one that handed it to him unopened, so what did you think he would do? Ofcourse attempt to open and eat it... well he asked for another one and she said, oh hell no, you had a chance to have one. That is when I spoke without really thinking and stated it was just an accident and she cut me off and said ... Well, long story short, she ran up towards be again saying, "listen b*tch..." but I cut HER off trying to tell her its not acceptable to come charging up into my face, making me have to back away from her, but she was yelling and couldn't even hear me. I asked what did I do that she seems so angry at me? And she said, "Everyone just leave me the ______ alone!" I got out of the kitchen and just left. I don't need this and neither does my baby. She is irrational and beyond what I can do for her. She has been very inconsistent and I'm just confused. One minute she talks with me just fine, like a few days ago we were taking about taking the kids to the zoo, as she doesn't have a car and she was supposedly all excited to go as she had some extra money but when the time to go, she changed her mind last minute and her son was bummed out bad.
She has her mom, but they don't see one another much it seems, besides when she stayed there after having her baby. Her mom lives far from where we live, and I've only met her mom once at the hospital when she had her baby when I visited there. She speaks badly of the sister she has so that's a no-go, and nope, no father in the picture. I am moving out as I can't have this around my own baby. I'm 7 1/2 months now and this just isn't working here. See, I ended up in transitional housing and was placed here with her. I left and talked to our house manager about my concerns last night and they agreed I need out of here. She is now on probation, and will be made to move out altogether if she ever acts threateningly towards me again. I hope they get some help for her, but they don't seem concerned about how she treats her kids.... I am puzzled... they said all mothers parent differently and spanking is not illegal here so really, unless marks are left, I guess nothing will be done.? Seriously, what about the psychological and emotional marks these kids will be left with? With the way her anger gets the better of her, I'm afraid she WILL end up hurting her kids, and her new baby.... ugh.... I am moving in a day or two and can't wait. I am working 30-34 hours a week and between work, was keeping up on things around the apt and tried to do for her what I could, and at the same time tried to not be meddling too much into her business.... yet still try to be her friend, but I just got no where. I tried...I am working on getting my life together for me and my baby, as I've had a lot to deal with of my own with my own babies father. It has made me stronger and I am determined for my babies sake to get my life back on track. So.... thanks again everyone. It's out of my hands. I tried to help her. I hope her kids will be ok.... :-/

[Mommyofalmost6]

It sounds like she does have PPD. :(

[waiting2bemommy]

yeah the rage with PPD can be overwhelming. Someone needs to insist she see a doctor. I'm sure she knows how she looks and is embarrassed by it, but still too overwhelmed by it to make a change. So she is defensive.

Ask me how I know.

[mamazee]

It sounds like you are living somewhere where there might be resources available? Is there someone you can talk to and see if there is a way for her evaluated to see if she has PPD, and then get help if that's the case?

[Mizelenius]

That is so tough.  Sadly, talking is not a solution I think works, even though it is the #1 suggestion people give.  Talking for a resolution would mean that both people are reasonable/rationale, and of course, in most situations (there are exceptions) this is not the case.

I think you are right that you need to protect your own emotional health, especially since you are pregnant (congratulations!).  There is only so much you can do for her, and it sounds like you have done everything you can. 

My concern is rarely for adults (in this case, the mom)-- my view is that they need to pick of the pieces of their lives, take responsibility, etc.  But children?  No.  They have no defense, no way to fend for themselves, and NEVER asked to be in the situation they are in.  Of course, the mom getting better would fix all of this, but how can you?  You can't.  No one can.  No one has any control or power to change anyone else. 

So, the only thing I would try to think about is HOW to help the kids with the little time you have left.  Have you seen anything that would count as neglect, esp. with the baby?  Sounds like emotional abuse is going on but I think this is VERY hard to prove (hopefully a SW will weight in on this thread).  It is counted as the lowest form of reported abuse (least common), but I would say that is probably THE most common and ALWAYS goes hand-in-hand with physical abuse.  Does not make sense to me, but that is another story . . .

It is so sad that they are not talking what you are saying about the kids seriously.  To me, this whole thing is ABOUT the kids-- that is the only reason you even got involved in the first place-- can't they see that?  I hate when different forms of "parenting" styles are supposedly OK . . .yes, some parents are more strict, but grabbing, yelling, belittling, etc. are never OK.

Here are the definitions of the forms of abuse-- way too lax, but there they are: http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/define.cfm

I am sorry for all of you going through this.  BTW, is the little boy in preschool?  Since you are leaving anyway, I WOULD suggest you call the teacher if he is and let them know what is going on.  Do not say anything judgmental-- JUST report facts.  In other words, leave out, "She is mean to him" and state only facts (what she says, what she does).  ONLY as they relate to him-- nothing else.

[Devaskyla]

OP,. do you know if the mom was ever able to get help? I feel so badly for her little ones.