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If you must get baby somewhere and don't have a car seat? - Page 2

post #21 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyfire View PostPlus, when I looked up safety stats, almost no one survives plane crashes. They are extremely rare and when they do happen, there are almost never survivors (they are pretty horrific) so the likelihood of the car seat saving her would be low.

 

You're right that a carseat may not help if the plane falls from the sky.  Carseats help keep babies from hitting the ceiling during turbulence, and can help in a runway crash.

 

post #22 of 107

OP, that has happened to me too.  We missed our last flight because the earlier one was delayed.  It was somewhere around midnight when I called the hotel shuttle.  It was actually a shuttle bus, but I was still scared.  No seatbelts, hard plastic seats.  It was in a major city, but I can't remember which one.  We made it fine to the hotel, got some rest, and took the shuttle back to the airport in the morning.  I think DD was 14 months or something.  It was awful.

post #23 of 107

This podcast is hosted by a flight attendant/mother of a 4 yo.  She has some excellent information on lap vs. seat, why you may not be able to have you baby in a wrap during take off and landing, what happens during turbulance, aborted take offs, giving yourself enough time to board, etc.  (FWIW, she does not use a carseat on a plane, she checks her daughter's seat and uses a CARES harness.)

 

Episode 49 is about travelling with kids, Episode 4 talks about turbulances and in general, she throw in kid-related travel stuff in most episodes.

 

We travel a lot by plane and I have gotten so much information from this podcast. 

 

post #24 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife View Post

Sleeping on the concrete outside of an airport with an infant seems more risky than a ride in a vehicle w/o a car seat.  Especially in many major cities. 



How many people per year die from spending one night out front of an airport, vs in car accidents per year?     

 

I probably wouldn't actually sleep anyways, just sit around until something within walking distance opened.  

 

When I travel though, I don't check baggage or the carseat, so when I arrive, I have everything I need right there, all as carry-on's.  So this situation would never come up for me personally anyway.

 

Its very dangerous to check carseats as baggage for this reason, and because they damage  a lot of things (both are why I won't check anything in!), so if OP had her child in the carseat on the plane (safer for the baby and for the carseat), she would have had the carseat and this wouldn't be an issue.   At the very least, gate check the seat so you get it when you arrive even if there is a delay or something.  

 

 

Also, if I had a situation where a "shuttle" was going to pick up me and ds, I would have asked in advance what the vehicle was.  I let ds ride on a full size bus without a carseat in Mexico, but I wouldn't let him ride in a cab on the way back, we called around to find a bus.  

 

 

 

So to avoid this in the future - keep your carseat with you on flights preferably installed and used on the plane, but if not, gate checked in a cardboard box to protect it (NOT checked as baggage), bring extra diapers/change of clothes/credit card for emergancies, double check flight times and transfer times so you don't miss flights - also schedual flights so you are not flying the last flight of the day, so if you miss, you can get on the next plane the same day and not get stuck.   

post #25 of 107

I'd call around a couple cab companies and see if anyone had a carseat, but if I couldn't find one, I'd do exactly what you did. Put the baby in the wrap and belt myself in. And ask the driver to drive carefully.

 

If I really, really, really didn't want to go without a carseat, and I was at HNL and it was late at night, I'd take the bus if it was still running. 

post #26 of 107
You can now purchase little luggage carts for car seats to clip to. Wheels and handle make it much easier. It can also be clipped to your suitcase to be pulled by it as well.
post #27 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighi123 View Post





How many people per year die from spending one night out front of an airport, vs in car accidents per year?     

 

I probably wouldn't actually sleep anyways, just sit around until something within walking distance opened.  

 

When I travel though, I don't check baggage or the carseat, so when I arrive, I have everything I need right there, all as carry-on's.  So this situation would never come up for me personally anyway.

 

Its very dangerous to check carseats as baggage for this reason, and because they damage  a lot of things (both are why I won't check anything in!), so if OP had her child in the carseat on the plane (safer for the baby and for the carseat), she would have had the carseat and this wouldn't be an issue.   At the very least, gate check the seat so you get it when you arrive even if there is a delay or something.  

 

 

Also, if I had a situation where a "shuttle" was going to pick up me and ds, I would have asked in advance what the vehicle was.  I let ds ride on a full size bus without a carseat in Mexico, but I wouldn't let him ride in a cab on the way back, we called around to find a bus.  

 

 

 

So to avoid this in the future - keep your carseat with you on flights preferably installed and used on the plane, but if not, gate checked in a cardboard box to protect it (NOT checked as baggage), bring extra diapers/change of clothes/credit card for emergancies, double check flight times and transfer times so you don't miss flights - also schedual flights so you are not flying the last flight of the day, so if you miss, you can get on the next plane the same day and not get stuck.   




I think the point of the post is what can one do if they need to transport a baby by car, without a carseat?  I am sure there really are actually times when that happens, and even the most prepared parent might not have a car seat.  What if the airport was evacuated for some reason, and she couldn't get her carseat back?  sometimes even the best intentions fall short.  I think it's condescending to act as if you could prevent yourself from EVER being without a needed carseat.   Can you try your darndest?  Sure.  But even then, your best laid plans can go awry.

post #28 of 107

sorry to be a serial poster, but I am just blown away by the insinuation that the op should have stood outside all night long with her baby.  WHy would someone suggest that??!

post #29 of 107

I think you did the best you could, given the situation.  I think the idea of spending the night on the concrete is absurd.

 

For your future flight - I've flown many times with my now-3yo and a folding luggage cart makes a huge difference.  I strap her carseat to the cart, and put either my carryon bag in it, or put the toddler in it like a stroller.  You can get carts for $10 at walmart.   That way I can pull the cart and hold DD's hand, or wear DD and pull the cart, or wear the backpack and put DD in the cart...  

 

I've flown once with two infants (3mo) and a 2.5yo, and two adults.  One carseat (the infants were lap babies and we had carseats available at our destination).  It was really not bad at all, except security. 


Next time we go DD will be 4, and I think we will get a ride-safer travel vest for her and let her use the lap belt on the plane. 

post #30 of 107

I had to ride in a car with dd when she was a baby with no carseat once. The circumstances were just one traveling disaster after another and we were left stranded with no better options. I did basically the same thing you did--I sat in the back with dd in the Ergo on my chest. I was a nervous wreck the whole ride and I am glad I will never have to do that again!

 

I agree that sleeping outside the airport would be far less preferable than one scary car ride.

post #31 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post

Well.  In that particular situation, I probably would have done what you did.  But, I would like to point out that I wouldn't have been in that situation, because I would have followed the recommendations, and my child would have been *IN* a carseat on the plane, therefore i would have had the carseat WITH ME.  While some airlines do permit you to bring "lap babies" on for free, it is not safe, and not a choice i would make. The AAP does not support it, and even the FAA calls it dangerous, but doesn't eliminate it so as to not lose the money from families who would then just not fly if they had to pay for seats for babies.  So the parameters of your example don't apply to me, really.  In a true "ZOMG ZOMBIE ATTACK!" scenario, where I was literally fleeing from a natural disaster, wildfire, etc, then yes, I might make the decision to transport kids without proper safety restraints, or in a situation where i ended up somehow without a proper seat and simply Could. Not. Get. One.  Luckily it's a moot point, since you are safe and sound :)  

 

Some international carriers don't allow carseats. I hope you never have to travel overseas :(
 

 

post #32 of 107

In your situation hands down I would have done what you did. No other options you do the best of the choices you are faced with and take the one that is the lessor of both evils in a sense. I would not sit outside with a child over night anywhere with a child so I would take the risk of a car accident. 

post #33 of 107
Thread Starter 

What DO you do if you have to travel overseas? Will they allow the safety vests?

post #34 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyfire View Post

What DO you do if you have to travel overseas? Will they allow the safety vests?


I don't know - I don't love my kids enough to bring a carseat everywhere ;)

 

post #35 of 107

I also agree that the OP probably made the best decision she could have in situation.  I have done the stay awake all night in a strange location / ride public transit for hours in order to have a place to be type thing...the latter with a newborn - because I didn't have the money to do something else.   But what is the bus system in Hawaii like?  Because that would be a great option, at least assuming it was running and could get you to your hotel (which is dicey in the middle of the night in non-major-cities).  I always feel safe on the bus.  I think it's safer than riding in a car.

post #36 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by swede View Post

sorry to be a serial poster, but I am just blown away by the insinuation that the op should have stood outside all night long with her baby.  WHy would someone suggest that??!


I think because not using a carseat seems unthinkable to some people because it's such a part of the way we do things.  I remember one time my older daughter was 3 or 4 and somehow I had neglected to fasten her harness.  She told me that it wasn't done with shock in her voice, so I pulled over and fastened it.  A little while later she asked me quietly, "you forgot to buckle me in, why aren't I dead?"  She really felt like if you didn't ride in a carseat, you would die, and I think that's kind of how we see it now.  I don't think we realize just how many children do ride in cars every day with no carseats. I mean on the crowded streets of Shanghai you can see entire families riding on motorbikes, no helmets, weaving in and out of traffic, and that traffic is crazy.  Not using a carseat for one ride doesn't seem like a big deal to me, especially given the alternative, but I'm older and we actually didn't use carseats when I was a kid, and we didn't even wear our seatbelts most of the time.  We were allowed to stand up holding onto the back of the seat, and sometimes we got to ride in the back of pickup trucks, although I admit my mom hated to let us do that. 

 

We don't know what the risk is of sitting outside an aiport with a 15 month old is because there probably are no records of this happening.  But there are definite risks to that too.

post #37 of 107

 

Please don't use the "They don't use car seats in other countries..." argument. It's true they don't use car seats but they lose more children in accidents. I live in one of those countries. That's a fact. Everyone's sad and everyone feels sorry for the parents but they continue to not use car seats and that's that. 

 

Also, don't say "we didn't have car seats and we survived". This is true for us but remember the babies who didn't survive aren't here to share their stories. Hospitals now have trouble supplying organs for children who need them because they no longer have the large number of highway fatalities they used to, thanks to car seats. 

 

Plus, when I looked up safety stats, almost no one survives plane crashes. They are extremely rare and when they do happen, there are almost never survivors (they are pretty horrific) so the likelihood of the car seat saving her would be low.

 

Where did you "look up" these safety stats? I'm a former Flight Attendant and we were told the complete opposite;  MORE PEOPLE SURVIVE PLANE ACCIDENTS THAN DIE in them. The idea that "We're all going to die" is not only a myth but it could also mean that YOU don't survive an accident. Many die because they panic or don't make an effort to get out. This is what the airlines do NOT want you to know. They hide this fact from the public because they don't want to make it worse for the surviving relatives. If your loved one ran the wrong way or didn't get out of his seat, that would be difficult to even know and even worse if it were shared with the press!!

 

Trust me, having a car seat on the plane can and has made a difference in many accidents. This is NOT a valid reason for not using a car seat on board. Be honest and say you don't want to buy a ticket for your baby because accidents ARE rare and you want to save money. You're placing your bets on the fact you wont have an accident, and chances are very much in your favor. But don't use a flimsy excuse about surviving crashes or the fact your baby "likes to be held", or whatever. 

 

I was once stuck on a shuttle and I put my baby on the floor. He was a bit bigger. I would have used a baby carrier IF there was a shoulder belt and made sure the shoulder belt did NOT go over any part of the baby.

 

For the record, I travel alone internationally with three children and brought a car seat for many years. It's totally do-able if you're organized but you need to be organized!!! I put my car seat on a metal luggage cart (don't buy a Gogo Travelmate, it's basically an overpriced, plastic luggage cart when you can buy a metal one for less that does the same thing). Having a good baby carrier is a must. A lot of the moms here breastfeed and already babywear so that make travel easier. 

 

For the record, about foreign airlines, I have had my seats taken away from me. One airline I flew didn't allow car seats at all (RyanAir, a low-cost Irish company). I arranged a car seat at our destination in England. I avoid flying our national company, which has been dodgy with car seats and try to fly either a U.S. company or Lufthansa, who are good about accepting foreign car seats (I drive with American car seats here for safety reasons, the ones sold here are not good, especially for rfing and ehing).

post #38 of 107
Thread Starter 

I'm sorry, you are correct. I should have used better search terms. I looked up info using "fatal plane accidents" instead of what got me your results which was "survive plane accidents." I came up with lots of info including some like this which show that more people die in plane accidents than car accidents: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/how-risky-is-flying.html  which is not at ALL what I have always been told. huh.gif Now I wish I hadn't looked that up at all.

 

As well as the info from this website which seems to show a low survival rate (yellow chart) for plane crashes, but I misunderstood as the chart is titled "FATAL plane accidents" - as in, they are not all fatal accidents. I am terrified to fly and my brain sees this kind of stuff and tends to freak out.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl View Post

 

Where did you "look up" these safety stats? I'm a former Flight Attendant and we were told the complete opposite;  MORE PEOPLE SURVIVE PLANE ACCIDENTS THAN DIE in them. The idea that "We're all going to die" is not only a myth but it could also mean that YOU don't survive an accident. Many die because they panic or don't make an effort to get out. This is what the airlines do NOT want you to know. They hide this fact from the public because they don't want to make it worse for the surviving relatives. If your loved one ran the wrong way or didn't get out of his seat, that would be difficult to even know and even worse if it were shared with the press!!
post #39 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighi123 View Post

I'd sleep outside the airport before I'd transport my child without a carseat.  



That is an interesting risk assessment... subjecting a tiny infant to the elements, possible arrest, assault for 8+ hours, rather than a car ride that is overwhelmingly likely to end successfully?

 

post #40 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeminijad View Post





That is an interesting risk assessment... subjecting a tiny infant to the elements, possible arrest, assault for 8+ hours, rather than a car ride that is overwhelmingly likely to end successfully?

 

You said it way better than I've been trying to :)
 

 

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