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If you must get baby somewhere and don't have a car seat? - Page 4

post #61 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post

<... or in a situation where i ended up somehow without a proper seat and simply Could. Not. Get. One.

Which, funnily enough, is the situation the OP was in.

And yes, I realize I deleted where you said you would have done it too.
post #62 of 107

I think in that situation the best course of action would be to get more details from the hotel about their "shuttle" before they send it to pick you up.  Explain to the hotel that you are travelling with a small child and need a carseat if the vehicle is not a bus. 

 

You could also try to call a taxi or car service, many will send a car with a carseat if requested.  If it was the airline's fault that you missed your flight, you can try to get them to reimburse you for the cost.  I've been reimbursed for buying overnight supplies when the airline has lost my luggage. 

 

Depending on the hour....if there is anyone at the ticket counters, you could ask if there are any carseats in the airlines' lost-and-found and borrow one overnight.  Or you could ask a car rental counter if they have one you could borrow overnight. 

 

Or you could make sure to always travel with a carseat, but obviously that is not always practical or even possible.

 

This website has some good practical information about what to do if you find yourself without a carseat (specifically in NYC taxis, but the info is helpful for other situations too.  It does emphasize that wearing a baby in a wrap, Ergo, etc while you buckle yourself in is a pretty bad option: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/taxis/using_taxis.html)

 

It sounds like you were in a bad situation and you did the best you could hug.gif

post #63 of 107

I'd have hopped in the shuttle and hoped for the best. Goodness- yes, using a car seat is ideal, but the high-and-mighty 'I would never!!'  thing is just annoying!   

 

A lot of people are suggesting that they would ALWAYS have the car seat with them as they pay for the seat for the child.  When that is too expensive, the choice may be flying with a lap baby or not seeing family.  Frankly, I'd fly with a lap baby and I would even be fairly ok with hopping in the shuttle sans car-seat.  I might request that the driver be as careful as possible, but really, I'd probably just enjoy the scenery. I refuse to be paralyzed by guilt and fear.  I try to make the best choices I can in a given situation, but being able to accept a less-than-ideal situation is important as well.  You can't plan for every eventuality. 

 

As for ambulances- the cot is secured into the floor- it can't roll around, and there are straps over the body or sometimes a sort of a net.  However, not everyone is secured in the back of an ambulance.  In an ideal world, sure, but in the real world they are too busy breathing for someone, taking a blood pressure, hooking up a defibrilator, monitoring bleeding etc.  Children in accidents in car seats are usually transported in the car seat.  Often there is a layer of duct tape (folded in half over hair so it doesn't stick if they have time) added to help keep the head from moving, but the car seat is the best way to maintain spinal integrity.  

post #64 of 107

When my cousin was 7 months 0ld (so about 11.5 years ago) a number of my family members was out to eat. Well, when we left the restaurant, my aunt's car was gone. Stolen. And with it, the baby's car seat. I ended up driving them home (about 5 minutes down the road) with Lucas in my aunt's lap.

 

The police officer who filed the stolen car report told us to take it very carefully, and gave us his name so if we got pulled over, he could verify our story. Their stroller got stolen, too, but in 7 more months they needed  a double, anyway.

 

post #65 of 107

hah, that reminds me, last week my mom and i were at the mall shopping. we'd gone by bus so all i had was the umbrella stroller and a carrier. halfway through our trip, my dad called saying that an old family friend had unexpectedly dropped by and we should hurry home and see her. while on the phone, my dad suggested to my mom that he come pick us up. while he saying that, my first thought was, oh, he doesn't have a car seat in his car! right on cue my mom turns to me and says, "he doesn't have the car seat... i guess you wouldn't want to ride home with dd on your lap?"

 

it made me think of this thread and i just laughed and laughed... no, dad, seeing my mom's old school friend is NOT a desperate enough situation to make me want to drive through city traffic with a toddler on my lap! 

post #66 of 107

OP, it sounds like what's done is done, and no one was any worse for wear. The point I think some of the people are trying to get across, is that there really is no way to plan for a situation where I would not have my carseat because I am really dilegent to always have it in case of emergency. The situation where I would not have a carseat would be some kind of disaster scenerio in which there was peril to life and limb and we needed to escape quickly because our life and death immediately depended on it. If one is in a situation like that and they don't have a carseat, then they do the best they can.

 

In order to make it easier for myself to always have a carseat, I bring it with me all the time. When we fly, I gate check my carseat. I'm not as "good" as some people are who never let it out of their sight, but I can't afford to bring the seat on the plane just yet and he's still lap baby age. When he stops being a lap baby and I need to buy a seat for him, I'll bring the seat on the plan just to restrain him from crawling all over me :-) In any case, you can buy a cheap Cosco Scenera 40RF for $50 or less and a $10 metal luggage cart and strap the carseat onto it. If you're already wearing the baby, it's not that much extra. The carseat even comes with it's own plastic bag. You could even bungee your carry on onto the seat and pull that around too so you only had the baby on the back and the carseat on the cart. That way you'd have your seat wherever life took you.

 

Definitely when you fly pack a lot of wipes and diapers. You just never know what's going to happen and it sucks to be stuck anywhere with a diapered baby and no diapers.

post #67 of 107

I would have done exactly what you did. It's a risk, a small risk. It suck to have to take it but honestly there are risks everywhere in life. I think you handled the situation very well, and clearly it was not a choice you found easy or made without significant ongoing reflection. Sometimes life throws us curve balls. It's up to us to handle those surprises to the best of our ability,and you did!

post #68 of 107

A car seat that has been gate checked needs to be treated as a car seat that you found on the side of the road or bought at a yardsale.  It's not a question of being 'good'.  It's a question of the fact that gate-checked and checked items are regularly flung around, dropped , smashed, squished and mistreated.  It is VERY common for a child restraint to be either lost (and then you're up a creek!) or returned with parts broken or missing.  

 

There is also the factor that a lap baby is unsafe, both for the baby and for everyone else in the plane.  You have to secure your five pound purse so that it doesn't become a projectile and cause a passenger serious injury, right?   If a 20 lb baby hits someone in the head, that person is at serious risk of injury or death, never mind the poor baby.   

 

If you can't afford to buy everyone a ticket, you really can't afford to fly.  

post #69 of 107

Sure, but you also don't know how a carseat was treated at the store either. Or shipping. Or whatever. If you buy your seat at BRU, how can you know that your seat wasn't thrown around by baggage handlers or shippers or stockers or whatever? You don't. At some point you have to trust that carseats are not made of ceramic. They're made of plastic that is meant to withstand a certain amount of normal stress. When we install carseats we push on them and pull them and sometimes even accidentally drop them. I'd guess that it takes much much more to really cause harm. I suppose if one is really worrried they could pack the seat back into it's original package with the styrofoam and gate check that. The Cosco scenera doesn't even come with any packing materials. Are you telling me that every single one of those seats are treated with kid gloves before it makes it to Target? And that everyone who pick up one of those seats at the store treats it nicely? I doubt you can make that guarantee.

post #70 of 107


I can understand why you would feel this way, but there's actually a significant difference in transport and treatment in the wholesale and retail world versus and airline.   

Firstly, almost all car seats come packaged in boxes, which, believe it or not, do an excellent job of protecting the restraints.  The design of a cardboard box is such that it absorbs forces quite well (ever seen a cardboard box with the corner dinged up, and the material almost accordioned in on itself?  Energy absorption!)     The Sceneras do come in plastic travel bags, but are boxed together for transport to the store.

 

And yes, shippers have a vested interest in getting an undamaged product to a store.  Shipments are handled relatively carefully.  If goods show up to a store regularly damaged, the shipping company stands to lose a LOT of money.  Meanwhile, baggage handlers, and airlines, do not care.   Ever had to deal with lost or damaged goods?  You're lucky if you can get someone to listen respectfully to you, and if you do, the chances of you getting financial recompensation are slim, and usually not at all the value of what was destroyed. 

 

End of story is that car seats should not be checked, they should be used on the plane, and lap babies are extremely dangerous to both themselves and everyone around them, and every major safety organization (the FAA included!) recommends that all children under 40 lbs be secured in a restraint on the plane.  

 

When parents come to our station with seats they've checked, we advise them that the seats need to be disposed of and replaced with new ones. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleRain View Post

Sure, but you also don't know how a carseat was treated at the store either. Or shipping. Or whatever. If you buy your seat at BRU, how can you know that your seat wasn't thrown around by baggage handlers or shippers or stockers or whatever? You don't. At some point you have to trust that carseats are not made of ceramic. They're made of plastic that is meant to withstand a certain amount of normal stress. When we install carseats we push on them and pull them and sometimes even accidentally drop them. I'd guess that it takes much much more to really cause harm. I suppose if one is really worrried they could pack the seat back into it's original package with the styrofoam and gate check that. The Cosco scenera doesn't even come with any packing materials. Are you telling me that every single one of those seats are treated with kid gloves before it makes it to Target? And that everyone who pick up one of those seats at the store treats it nicely? I doubt you can make that guarantee.



 

post #71 of 107

 

Quote:

And yes, shippers have a vested interest in getting an undamaged product to a store. 

 

 

I disagree. My husband worked at walmart in the distribution center, and he was appalled by the way items were handled. Even big screen tvs were tossed around and dropped like they were nothing. Those people make crap money, they don't care how the items arrive at the store or if the store loses money.

 

OP, I'd have done the same as you in that situation.

post #72 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

 

If you can't afford to buy everyone a ticket, you really can't afford to fly.  


so having a lap baby is worse than having your baby never see their grandparents?  This is honestly one of the most awful and elitist  things I've read on this board.

 

post #73 of 107
Yeah... or what if the flight was to a family member's death bed or funeral? What if it was part of a relocation so the family could move to a lower COL area? What if it was to obtain vitally necessary medical care? I can think of a lot of reasons people might 'need' to fly even if they technically can't afford it.
post #74 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicaG View Post

 

This website has some good practical information about what to do if you find yourself without a carseat (specifically in NYC taxis, but the info is helpful for other situations too.  It does emphasize that wearing a baby in a wrap, Ergo, etc while you buckle yourself in is a pretty bad option: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/taxis/using_taxis.html)

 

 



Thanks NicaG the infro from taxi lady was v intresting.  seems unrestrained in a car there are three options, hold in arms, hold in wrap, belt in on lap.  All r v v v bad.  I get that.

But is there any info about which is least bad.  What about having a wrap much lower than nomral so out of the chin range?  It was useful that she metions strapping a 1 yr old in is better than nothing but a shame she doesn't say which is the least bad for an infant.

 

post #75 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenelopeJune View Post

 

 

 

I disagree. My husband worked at walmart in the distribution center, and he was appalled by the way items were handled. Even big screen tvs were tossed around and dropped like they were nothing. Those people make crap money, they don't care how the items arrive at the store or if the store loses money.

 

OP, I'd have done the same as you in that situation.

This. Last time I was BRU I saw employees throwing boxes around left and right. At Costco stuff falls off that cart all the times and employees just shove them back on. Stuff certainly isn't treated well at stores. The argument that carseats can't be checked because who knows how things are treated from the time you let it out of your hands can easily be applied to products at the store. When you see that neat Scenera sitting on the shelf, you have no clue what it's life was like.

 

Your argument about cardborad boxed providing protection during shipping doesn't really do much better. I could easily put the seat in a cardboard box. Would that make it safer? I'd guess you'd say no. Are there any statistics on carseat failures after being checked or gatechecked (which is a different process altogether, just in case you weren't aware).
 

 

post #76 of 107

Have you ever worked on a loading dock? . The drivers yes are probably more active in how their trucks are loaded and have invested into their load however once it is off the truck yeah different story on how things are treated. Even before it hits the truck. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post


I can understand why you would feel this way, but there's actually a significant difference in transport and treatment in the wholesale and retail world versus and airline.   

Firstly, almost all car seats come packaged in boxes, which, believe it or not, do an excellent job of protecting the restraints.  The design of a cardboard box is such that it absorbs forces quite well (ever seen a cardboard box with the corner dinged up, and the material almost accordioned in on itself?  Energy absorption!)     The Sceneras do come in plastic travel bags, but are boxed together for transport to the store.

 

And yes, shippers have a vested interest in getting an undamaged product to a store.  Shipments are handled relatively carefully.  If goods show up to a store regularly damaged, the shipping company stands to lose a LOT of money.  Meanwhile, baggage handlers, and airlines, do not care.   Ever had to deal with lost or damaged goods?  You're lucky if you can get someone to listen respectfully to you, and if you do, the chances of you getting financial recompensation are slim, and usually not at all the value of what was destroyed. 

 

End of story is that car seats should not be checked, they should be used on the plane, and lap babies are extremely dangerous to both themselves and everyone around them, and every major safety organization (the FAA included!) recommends that all children under 40 lbs be secured in a restraint on the plane.  

 

When parents come to our station with seats they've checked, we advise them that the seats need to be disposed of and replaced with new ones. 



 



 

post #77 of 107


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbird View Post





Thanks NicaG the infro from taxi lady was v intresting.  seems unrestrained in a car there are three options, hold in arms, hold in wrap, belt in on lap.  All r v v v bad.  I get that.

But is there any info about which is least bad.  What about having a wrap much lower than nomral so out of the chin range?  It was useful that she metions strapping a 1 yr old in is better than nothing but a shame she doesn't say which is the least bad for an infant.

 

 

The website seems to favor buckling a toddler/young toddler into a regular seatbelt over wearing the child in a wrap and buckling yourself in.  After watching the video, it looks like the real problem with the wrap is that it just shreds on impact, sending the baby flying into the interior of the car, into the seatback, into the windshield.  So it's really no better than holding the baby on your lap.  I guess if the baby is buckled into a seatbelt, at least it helps somewhat to prevent the baby from being ejected from the car or hitting the interior of the car. 

 


 

 

post #78 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

A car seat that has been gate checked needs to be treated as a car seat that you found on the side of the road or bought at a yardsale.  It's not a question of being 'good'.  It's a question of the fact that gate-checked and checked items are regularly flung around, dropped , smashed, squished and mistreated.  It is VERY common for a child restraint to be either lost (and then you're up a creek!) or returned with parts broken or missing.  

 

There is also the factor that a lap baby is unsafe, both for the baby and for everyone else in the plane.  You have to secure your five pound purse so that it doesn't become a projectile and cause a passenger serious injury, right?   If a 20 lb baby hits someone in the head, that person is at serious risk of injury or death, never mind the poor baby.   

 

If you can't afford to buy everyone a ticket, you really can't afford to fly.  


Such a privileged statement.

 

post #79 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post


I can understand why you would feel this way, but there's actually a significant difference in transport and treatment in the wholesale and retail world versus and airline.   

Firstly, almost all car seats come packaged in boxes, which, believe it or not, do an excellent job of protecting the restraints.  The design of a cardboard box is such that it absorbs forces quite well (ever seen a cardboard box with the corner dinged up, and the material almost accordioned in on itself?  Energy absorption!)     The Sceneras do come in plastic travel bags, but are boxed together for transport to the store.

 

And yes, shippers have a vested interest in getting an undamaged product to a store.  Shipments are handled relatively carefully.  If goods show up to a store regularly damaged, the shipping company stands to lose a LOT of money.  Meanwhile, baggage handlers, and airlines, do not care.   Ever had to deal with lost or damaged goods?  You're lucky if you can get someone to listen respectfully to you, and if you do, the chances of you getting financial recompensation are slim, and usually not at all the value of what was destroyed. 

 

End of story is that car seats should not be checked, they should be used on the plane, and lap babies are extremely dangerous to both themselves and everyone around them, and every major safety organization (the FAA included!) recommends that all children under 40 lbs be secured in a restraint on the plane.  

 

When parents come to our station with seats they've checked, we advise them that the seats need to be disposed of and replaced with new ones. 



 

Some international carriers don't even allow you to bring a carseat on. 
 

 

post #80 of 107


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

A car seat that has been gate checked needs to be treated as a car seat that you found on the side of the road or bought at a yardsale.  It's not a question of being 'good'.  It's a question of the fact that gate-checked and checked items are regularly flung around, dropped , smashed, squished and mistreated.  It is VERY common for a child restraint to be either lost (and then you're up a creek!) or returned with parts broken or missing.  

 

There is also the factor that a lap baby is unsafe, both for the baby and for everyone else in the plane.  You have to secure your five pound purse so that it doesn't become a projectile and cause a passenger serious injury, right?   If a 20 lb baby hits someone in the head, that person is at serious risk of injury or death, never mind the poor baby.   

 

If you can't afford to buy everyone a ticket, you really can't afford to fly.  


I think it's a little extreme to insist that everyone who gate-checks a car seat needs to throw the seat away.  Is there any evidence that gate-checked seats have malfunctioned later in an accident?  Any evidence at all? 

 

As for lap babies on airplanes, hasn't this been discussed a million times on this forum?  I think it comes down to probability.  Yes, we can all agree that holding a baby on your lap on an airplane is not the absolute safest way to fly.  However, we all do risky things each day.  Based on actual statistics, airlines and governments around the world have decided that the risk of a lap baby being injured during a flight are very very small, probably smaller than the risk of crossing the street as a pedestrian, definitely smaller than the risk of riding in a car in a properly installed car seat.  Governments and airlines have decided to allow the practice of lap babies to continue.  For those who can afford a seat for their baby, great.  We all know that it's safer.  But I think it's unfair to attack those parents who bring lap babies on a plane.  Those parents have decided that the amount of risk involved is acceptable to them, and that's a legal, and in my mind reasonable decision.  Can anyone give me actual statistics about how many lap babies travel each year, and how many are injured?

 

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