If you must get baby somewhere and don't have a car seat? - Page 5

[Maedze]

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 

[swede]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 

the op was given a ticket as a gift.   Also, many international carriers don't allow carseats. 

[EviesMom]

I can see how you could still have this problem, even if the child were over 2 and not car seated on the plane due to having a travel vest or an available carseat on the other end. I suppose if they are old enough to be non-car seated on the plane, they are old enough to do seatbelt only if absolutely necessary. I have belted mine in as toddlers in a similar situation. No shoulder strap, just lap belt. The floor seems like a somewhat reasonable option as well.

In the OP scenario though, I would probably make a very big stink about being kicked out sans help if the missed flight was their fault in any way. Perhaps I'd also call a local tv station, who often advertise in the airport to publicize what they're doing. Also, you could insist that they call the police and ask them for assistance, maybe even including a car seat, as they often seem to have some available for demonstrations. Last, maybe if you have internet access, or just look up before you go a phone num for a local church/synagogue/similar of your denomination/religion. They often have all hours crisis or help lines, and many would be able to get a car seat and driver to you if not a place to stay. I'd have done the same though if I had to get in the car somewhere. Wrap won't help in a crash, but should at least minimize minor jostling I think.

[swede]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 

also - :( to the bolded.

[Adaline'sMama]

You can buy a seat all you want, but how many toddlers are going to stay put in a carseat while people are walking around to and from the bathroom? Is the seat ONLY for take off and landing? Are you going to strap your kid into a carseat when the plane is going down in midst of all the chaos? Probably not. So, most people would probably take their kid out if he/she was screaming right? My kid would scream the entire time if she was in a seat, making everyone's flight absolutely miserable. I flew with my three month old last summer and she nursed almost the whole time. I guess I should have paid over $300 so that I could hold her and nurse her on a 8 hour flight?

Im flying in 4 weeks on a 5 hours straight flight with a lap baby, not because I cant afford to buy her a ticket, but because it would be pointless to spend $250.00 because I wouldnt keep her in the seat if she were screaming (and she would be after that many hours in a carseat). I hope you are not successful in changing the regulations, because a lot less people will take their children places if they cant hold them.

[amberskyfire]

Sadly, I would not have been able to put DD in the car seat on the plane even if we had one plus the $1000 ticket. She was a screamer like yours. I wasn't able to put her down until almost age two. It was awful. We never went anywhere in the car. She would scream so hard that by about two minutes into the drive, she would turn purple, choke and couldn't breathe anymore. To this day, she still will start to suffocate and panic if she gets too worked up. It would have been a very very expensive empty seat next to us. :(
 

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

You can buy a seat all you want, but how many toddlers are going to stay put in a carseat while people are walking around to and from the bathroom? Is the seat ONLY for take off and landing? Are you going to strap your kid into a carseat when the plane is going down in midst of all the chaos? Probably not. So, most people would probably take their kid out if he/she was screaming right? My kid would scream the entire time if she was in a seat, making everyone's flight absolutely miserable. I flew with my three month old last summer and she nursed almost the whole time. I guess I should have paid over $300 so that I could hold her and nurse her on a 8 hour flight?

Im flying in 4 weeks on a 5 hours straight flight with a lap baby, not because I cant afford to buy her a ticket, but because it would be pointless to spend $250.00 because I wouldnt keep her in the seat if she were screaming (and she would be after that many hours in a carseat). I hope you are not successful in changing the regulations, because a lot less people will take their children places if they cant hold them.

[pammysue]

OP, I would have done the same thing in your situation and been a nervous wreck the whole time. But, being able to look at it from a distance, I wonder if the police would be able to help you. I am sure they must have some car seats on hand in emergencies or be able to get one, maybe from an ambulance. At least they may be able to provide you with a better alternative.

Maedze-the number of flights we have taken with DS1 to see my family has reduced significantly since he turned two. We simply cannot afford the extra ticket and I am afraid that once DS2 turns two we will not be flying to see my family at all, which means not going home since they live 2500 miles away. (I'm not looking for sympathy, just stating the facts.)

[Honey693]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 

1. We flew until DD1 hit 2.  Now we drive (godawful and usually not feasible) or don't go at all b/c the extra $400 expense if not in the budget.  If we had a sick family member and had to fly we'd be screwed or not able to say goodbye.

2. I highly doubt that in a few years lap babies won't be allowed.  This is the first time I have heard anything about this.  And if keeping kids rear facing in cars until 2 isn't law I can't see how anyone would be concerned about the safety of lap babies in plane,s which is much safer.

3. You sound incredibly elitist and I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG in your posts.  I really hope that's not your intent and that your intent is to give people information on the risks and benefits of a situation so they can make their own decisions.

[dot1]

How awful - sorry you had to go through that!

If it were me, depending on size of baby I'd probably borrow someone's travel system (carseat on stroller combo), check to ensure it meets airline size restrictions for "gate checks", then load up the stroller with carseat/baby and carry on luggage, have 3 yr old walk (or carry an Ergo or similar carrier if you have to put her on your back).  Then do what's called a "gate check" where the stroller/carseat is left at the door of the plane and is ready and waiting for you when you get off.  The hardest part is retrieving your checked baggage, but most airports have large luggage carts for rent (this is when you have to get creative with loading up the cart and having a hands free carrier for baby if you can't manage both the cart and the stroller.  The key is to minimize having to carry or tow things (to keep at least one hand free at all times)...and instead try to get as much of your precious cargo on wheels and/or strapped on your body!

[amberskyfire]

I really like the police idea. That is fab! Thank you! I honestly think the police would just tell me not to worry about getting in the shuttle the one time without a car seat, but it sounds like an awesome first option and it certainly can't hurt to ask. Or beg. :) I'll keep that in mind next time. At the very least, it would probably be safer to ride in the police vehicle than in the shuttle if they didn't happen to have a car seat they could provide. Hawaii towns are tiny and I don't know that they keep them for that kind of use or not.

[Maedze]

AgaIn, personal attacks make you look foolish. You are of course welcome to ignore safety information, but name calling the person who provides it doesn't somehow make it safe to do something that isn't. I realize it's a defense mechanism so I'm choosing not to take it personally.

As for 'I haven't heard anything about that so it can't be true!'.....uh, ok? You are incorrect.


All children under 40 lbs should be restrained in an approved restraint when the fasten seatbelt light is on, same as everyone over 40 should be in a belt or appropriate restraint. Take off, landing, turbulence.

[Delilah83]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

Anyone who can get in a car is 'privileged'.  Anyone who can buy an airline ticket is privileged.   

I find the whole, "Oh, I can't afford to fly if I have to buy my baby a ticket" is completely disingenous.  If it was the law (as it will be within a few years, a lot of us are working very hard to get rid of the lap-baby loophole and the FAA is completely onboard), you'd find a way to pay for it if you're flying in the first place, as you will the moment your baby turns two.  

The number of people who stop flying when their child turns two, but flew anywhere and everywhere up to 23 months is pretty much non-existent.     My guess is, if you were legally required to, you would.  

You are, of course, completely welcome (for the time being, until the law changes) welcome to disregard my advice, but making personal attacks simply makes you look foolish. 

And if you can scrape up for X months to buy 1 or 2 tickets, you can scrape up for X number of more tickets to buy the third. 

What if  it's an emergency you don't have a lot of lead time to save the tickets? My husband's grandfather died last year and it was totally unexpected.We had actually JUST been out there to visit him two weeks prior and he was in great shape, two weeks later he was dead and we had to scrape together 1,000+ to fly out for the funeral. We checked the car seat at the gate and the baby flew on our laps.

Anyway last winter we had a huge blizzard. My sister in law got roped into closing at her store and had mother in law go and pick her up. They both got stranded in traffic and it took them close to 4 fours to to get home, what is normally a 20 minute drive. Since my husband and I live closest to our then 18 month old neice's daycare we ended up picking her up from daye care. Since we didn't have a car seat at the time husband just buckled the baby in the back seat of his two door and drove very very carefully. It wasn't an ideal situation (really it was a nerve-wracking one) but it's not a choice I'd agonize over. The day care was closing, we couldn't just camp out on the sidewalk.

Edited by Delilah83 - 7/14/11 at 6:02am

[Adaline'sMama]

Airlines are already suffering financially. Several airlines have filed losses for the past several years. Its no secret that they are not doing well. If they add this new regulation, I can imagine that it will only negatively impact their financial gain. They are a company after all, what exactly do they have to gain from this?






I remember when my stepgrandpa died when I was little and we lived in Oklahoma. My parents flew back to Kentucky for a week to deal with it, and I had to stay with a friend of theirs. I thought it was SO unfair that my sister (under 2) got to go but I didnt. My parents could not afford to fly me there.

[Honey693]

Originally Posted by Maedze 




All children under 40 lbs should be restrained in an approved restraint when the fasten seatbelt light is on, same as everyone over 40 should be in a belt or appropriate restraint. Take off, landing, turbulence.

So how about on international carriers where car seats aren't allowed? 

And being  condescending is a defense mechanism so I won't take it personally!

[Boot]

To the op, I think you did your best under the circumstances. Life is not perfect and there are risks in everything. I've had to put the car seats in a taxi when my car broke down and the driver looked at me like I was crazy!
On the plane discussion, I recently flew with my toddler so that my father could meet her for the first and last time and so I could say goodbye. It was a 30 hour journey each way with a total of 4 flights. On 2 I managed to get her a seat (I had a car seat), on 2 she was a lap baby. If I had bought her a ticket it would have been $2000. I know some people would have put the ticket on credit, others would have chosen not to go, but for me and my family, I think I made the best choice.

[bamamom]

Absolutley.  You can only do so m uch and what happened was out of your control.  I'm a carseat nerd with the best of them but you were literally stranded. 

[SeattleRain]

Originally Posted by amberskyfire 

I really like the police idea. That is fab! Thank you! I honestly think the police would just tell me not to worry about getting in the shuttle the one time without a car seat, but it sounds like an awesome first option and it certainly can't hurt to ask. Or beg. :) I'll keep that in mind next time. At the very least, it would probably be safer to ride in the police vehicle than in the shuttle if they didn't happen to have a car seat they could provide. Hawaii towns are tiny and I don't know that they keep them for that kind of use or not.

Actually calling the police is literally the best option yet. The police are not ever going to tell you to get into a car without a carseat, because it's against the law (for good reason). They're never going to tell you to break the law. If you're stuck where you've been kicked out of the airport, can't stay on their grounds, and don't have a safe or legal way to transport your child, you should definitely call the police (not 911, just the police). It's possible that they DO have carseats, or they might be able to give you some advice as to get to where you need to go safely and legally.

I'm standing by my suggestion that if you're not going to buy your kid a seat, you should gate check your seat. Even a mishandled seat is better than holding a baby on your lap.

[bamamom]

Originally Posted by swede 

sorry to be a serial poster, but I am just blown away by the insinuation that the op should have stood outside all night long with her baby.  WHy would someone suggest that??!

Because the shaming will somehow make her a better mother and help her make better decisions someday.

good grief.  I get so tired of the dogpiling.

[Rivka5]

The last time we got stranded overnight because of a missed flight, we were surprised to learn that the airport had a big stash of disposable diapers for just that situation. We mentioned to the person who rescheduled our flight that we didn't have anything with us, and she sent us down to baggage claim where they gave us toiletry kits and several diapers. They had all different sizes, even.

OP, I would have done what you did. I would have been nervous, but the idea that you should have spent the night on a slab of concrete with nothing to eat or drink, no access to a toilet or handwashing facilities, and nothing to keep tropical insects away is completely ludicrous.

[FiveLittleMonkeys]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

AgaIn, personal attacks make you look foolish. You are of course welcome to ignore safety information, but name calling the person who provides it doesn't somehow make it safe to do something that isn't. I realize it's a defense mechanism so I'm choosing not to take it personally.

As for 'I haven't heard anything about that so it can't be true!'.....uh, ok? You are incorrect.


All children under 40 lbs should be restrained in an approved restraint when the fasten seatbelt light is on, same as everyone over 40 should be in a belt or appropriate restraint. Take off, landing, turbulence.

And your condescending tone doesn't make you look elitist?  Uh...ok?

I realize that it's merely a defense mechanism, so I'm choosing not to take it personally.  HTH!!

OP - I would have done the exact same thing you did.  Sometimes when you're a parent, you have to make the best of two not-so-great choices.