Adhd, spd, food allergies and school options...

[puzzlepeace]

Hi All,

I am new here. I have a 9yo ds who has been in a private/parochial school since before kindergarten.  Academically it has been great for him, providing a challenge that he can meet.  Emotionally it became detrimental to his well being and we made the decision for him not to return for 4th grade.  He is dx'd with adhd, sensory processing, numerous food and seasonal allergies.  We truly believe there is more to him as well including issues with his blood sugar.  While he has been tested fairly thoroughly in the past to rule out Asperger's/asd, we feel very strongly like we are still missing a piece to the puzzle.

Current situation- He has had blowups in the past.  He has been suspended. He has been threatened with expulsion (which only served to put him even faster into life v death mode when he has crumbled).  He had about 3 blowups this year. He had a major blowup and became physical recently.  It was during a time he was already stressed due to outside issues(school and teacher were very aware, had met with us prior for special contingency plans), he did not eat, his med levels were thrown by no food.  The adults at his school pushed some issues even when seeing he couldn't tolerate it.  They also did not follow the the contingency or discipline plans in place, putting him into a fight or flight mode.  The follow up with us was equally unsatisfying. 

We need to decide how best to approach his school options for fall.  We have many parochial schools in our area whose discipline approach is outside of our comfort zone for an easy kid, let alone a challenging one.  Those are all out.  So it seems we are down to...

a.)We have the public school.  He was involved in early intervention with them, though his therapists at the time recommended him not attending public when we needed to decide in kindergarten.  I have not felt the love in attempts to get a tour. However I have had some very minimal interaction with the public school that was very positive a few years back. So it might be good but not sure. Will go see the school this week finally and request testing/iep meeting then. Our assumption would be that the school would help us to put plans into place, figure out some of the missing pieces, provide options like social skills groups to help him acclimate and learn how to cope.

b)Homeschool- I could quit my job to homeschool him.  This option would be most trying to my patience I am sure. However I feel capable of doing it.  I am an elementary teacher now.  I have quite a few teacher friends leaving their current jobs to homeschool so would have some support.  We originally planned to homeschool our kids but hubby got cold feet.  It would mean that hubby would be the soul income, something I know stresses him out.  It would also mean that if we chose to put ds back into school at some point, I would be starting over in my own career. I am not unopposed to this option though, as my own job has left me with doubts after dealing with political pains. If we did this I could get him involved with private occupational therapy and social skills group.

c)Put him back into the school he has been at even after making a decision not to.  We don't think he would mesh well with the new teacher and are very unhappy at how the administration has really made no effort to learn to deal with him.  We are also upset that he has been used in some ways as an example (kids in similar situations have had little to no consequences). So this option is not something we want. Again we could involve him in private therapies, however would have to work around my schedule making it challenging.

d)Look at schools outside of our area.  This would most likely mean moving about 5 hours from husband to live with family elsewhere.  In general the public schools there are significantly better equipped to handle a kid like him.  I would need to find another job, and travel home so hubby could still have a relationship with me and the kids.  We have had to do the live apart thing for a year before and it is hard. This again is not optimal.

Thoughts, on schooling or on possible things to look into?  I am feeling a bit like I am swimming in a lake but unable to reach the shore.  I am getting tired of treading water!  Someone help through me a life preserver!

Thanks!!!

[Piglet68]

I think talking more to the public schools is a good idea. You need to be very clear on what they can and cannot do for your son before you rule that option out. From what you are saying, it doesn't sound like your current situation is all that great. Unless you see good reason to believe that things will change, perhaps it's not the best situation for your son.

I can tell you that homeschooling does not have to be a lot of hard work - we spent one year in a parent-participation preschool and I can tell you that THAT was way harder work than any of the homeschooling years before or after! :-) The career issue is a big one for you, and something you'll have to search deep within yourself to find answers about. You certainly don't want to end up feeling bitter if you should lose your ability to get back into it. OTOH, you may really enjoy and savour this precious time with your son.

Back to homeschooling, it's important to have a good supportive community around and particularly one where other parents are dealing with their special needs kids. And it's important to know how it works in your province or state. Where we live there are excellent programs for homeschoolers and we will even get funding if my kids end up in the Special Needs program. Our medical system is different too, and issues of cost are not so relevant to us as in the US. If you cannot find support outside a school system that you can afford, then it might be better to keep him in one. 

I'm biased b/c we do homeschool, and it's all I can comment on. But since we are in a great situation here with respect to homeschooling, and have lots of support, for me I couldn't bear putting my kids' emotional well-being in the hands of an institution, with hundreds of other children to look after and few resources to do so effectively at the individual level. But again, if I had no support as a homeschooler I would have to make the best of what's available to me. 

[heatherdeg]

I'm also biased because we homeschool; but looking at the sheer number of issues and challenges you face--I truly DO think it's the best option (and I am also a former ps teacher).

I can imagine that you look at his day-to-day behaviors now and are stressed with the thought of trying to deal with them with no break; but the reality is that often--after everyone adjusts--a lot of the power struggles and external stressors either fade to "tolerable" if not disappear completely.  As a teacher, the hardest part for me was not approaching my child as if he was still in a classroom.  I approached mine as if we were doing school at home and I was his teacher.  That really didn't work.  And they need time (an amount of time that gets uncomfortable if you're anything like me) to de-school and embrace being home.

Could you make an outside-of-the-home school situation work for him?  Maybe.  But when you look at the food issues alone and the fact that you're trying to ferret out that missing link when you don't have access to him for a significant portion of the day.  How much more time is it going to take trying to get him stabilized under those circumstances?  And what is it doing to his self-esteem in the meantime in the school environment?  How is that going to exacerbate the existing problems?

Pulling our kid was the best thing we ever did.  We accomplished in 2-ish years what... well, I have no clue IF we could've accomplished what we did if he weren't home with my ability to observe him under a broad range of circumstances and address them before they became more serious problems (or habits).

Agreed, you will need support.  For any new homeschooler, this is "the" challenge: finding a community.  But it sounds like you already not only have a few people to lean on--but people who are an incredible resource because they're in YOUR industry and they are similarly going against the grain of that industry.  You have a rare gem in the way of support.  ;)  None-the-less, you can find others.  Yahoo groups, meetup.com, even a Google search of your state name and "homeschool groups" should get you a good start.  You could look for homeschool co-ops, too.  :)

[Linda on the move]

I'm a fan of trying public school and seeing what happens. We are former homeschoolers, and my sn DD does much better with teachers other than me. And I do much better with real breaks from her.

If you guys try homeschooling for a semester and it doesn't work for either you or him,  what will you have given up at work?

Also, it's odd to me that in your OP you don't mention what it is like when YOU work on school work with him.  Does he take instruction well from you, not just for homework, but working on skills over the summer when the work isn't assigned by a 3rd party?

Are there ANY other options where you live? Alternative schools, charter schools, etc.?  Public school was better for my DD than homeschooling, but a private alternative school has worked out the best.

[puzzlepeace]

Thank you for the replies! It has been a busy week between checking into options and my finishing up my own school year.  I am not sure what to do honestly.  He does work fairly well for me, gives me guff but gets it done.  I would need to figure out an income myself (10-15K a year) to build a buffer into the budget if I quit my job.  I am unsure I can be my best at work though when I am thinking about him so much.I am so overwhelmed myself with this decision.  I feel like I have failed him and am not sure where to turn to get him the help he needs. 

We went to look at the public school.  DH felt he'd be fine, I am not so sure.  I am finding that at least now without any meds, he needs pretty close supervision.  His impulse control when it comes to hitting, etc. is awful.  We are supervising closely, but I am not sure how he would be with 26 other kids.  He would not qualify for anything in the public school.  However we may loose the opportunity to get anything through our insurance also (ot, therapy).  It is hard to say. He has never done well with folks who don't know him, and has a tendancy to be an exploder when he feels trapped, frustrated or pushed. He has a strong sense of "justice" that also comes into play.

So I am not sure we are any closer to an answer, but am grateful for the input!

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by puzzlepeace 

His impulse control when it comes to hitting, etc. is awful...has a tendancy to be an exploder when he feels trapped, frustrated or pushed. He has a strong sense of "justice" that also comes into play.

This is totally OT but I just wanted to say how...nice?...a relief...it is for me to read about other kids with these same issues. Sometimes I feel very alone in dealing with such a child.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by puzzlepeace 
We went to look at the public school.  DH felt he'd be fine, I am not so sure.  I am finding that at least now without any meds, he needs pretty close supervision.  His impulse control when it comes to hitting, etc. is awful.  We are supervising closely, but I am not sure how he would be with 26 other kids.  He would not qualify for anything in the public school. 

My 7yo is ADHD/ODD and he is at a K-12 charter. At the very least your son would qualify for a 504 for the ADHD, related behavior issues, and health issues that impact him at school; but I'd also request special education testing; not for academics which he doesn't appear to need, but for other services like behavior/social skills and it would give him some legal protection as far as discipline "leeway." Has your son seen a developmental ped? He might get a more detailed diagnosis which would help him qualify for special ed services. I would try public school before other options that would cause you to leave work or move.

It is the staff at the school who make a big difference in what the school experience is like. Ds' last teacher did not have any special training but she was very good in dealing with ds and knew best how to work with him. Also, the principle for the elementary is not the scary punitive !@#$% that the principle at his last school was which helps a lot too since ds still spent a fair amount of time with her.

Originally Posted by puzzlepeace 
 

His impulse control when it comes to hitting, etc. is awful...has a tendancy to be an exploder when he feels trapped, frustrated or pushed. He has a strong sense of "justice" that also comes into play.

This was a big issue for us too. Vyvanse helped a lot with impulse control issues. The med release isn't affected by food, though anecdotally eating protein at the time it is taken helps; if your ds hasn't tried it yet I'd ask your doctor about it.

Edited by Emmeline II - 6/20/11 at 3:31am

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by puzzlepeace 

  I am finding that at least now without any meds, he needs pretty close supervision.  His impulse control when it comes to hitting, etc. is awful. 

I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't give your son meds and he is violent, but that with meds he wouldn't be violent?

Coming from the point of view of an older kid (14) and watching lots of sn kids over the years in homeschooling groups, public school, and private schools, violence has a bigger impact on your child's educational options than ANY other factor, including IQ. It is a socially isolating behavior no matter what path you chose.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by puzzlepeace 

I am finding that at least now without any meds, he needs pretty close supervision.  His impulse control when it comes to hitting, etc. is awful.  We are supervising closely, but I am not sure how he would be with 26 other kids.  He would not qualify for anything in the public school.  However we may loose the opportunity to get anything through our insurance also (ot, therapy).  It is hard to say. He has never done well with folks who don't know him, and has a tendancy to be an exploder when he feels trapped, frustrated or pushed. He has a strong sense of "justice" that also comes into play.

On one hand, I would be very concerned about this in a class with 26 other kids even if there's 1 other adult in the room.  Stuff still gets missed and therefore not dealt with in a timeframe that provides immediate feedback for the behavior.

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

My 7yo is ADHD/ODD and he is at a K-12 charter. At the very least your son would qualify for a 504 for the ADHD, related behavior issues, and health issues that impact him at school; but I'd also request special education testing; not for academics which he doesn't appear to need, but for other services like behavior/social skills and it would give him some legal protection as far as discipline "leeway."

Agreed with this.  Most places have rules in place that a child is not "punished" the same way if the behavior is related to something in the 504 or IEP.  For example, I had a student who couldn't be suspended for his behavior because it was related to his 504/IEP issues when the lack of a 504/IEP would've had him suspended for that behavior.  Essentially: they can't punish them for what they are unable to help.  That being said, if you are currently med-free and wish to stay that way, I have also seen districts argue that the behavior is controllable and the parents are unwilling to control it.  I saw this turn into a legal battle (and honestly, I have no idea what the legalities are--I'm going to guess they differ by location as I didn't have this covered in a comprehensive Special Education law class I took in 2007 as part of my Master's program)

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't give your son meds and he is violent, but that with meds he wouldn't be violent?

Coming from the point of view of an older kid (14) and watching lots of sn kids over the years in homeschooling groups, public school, and private schools, violence has a bigger impact on your child's educational options than ANY other factor, including IQ. It is a socially isolating behavior no matter what path you chose.

I mostly want to echo the point in bold.  And my experience with the homeschool community (in two states) is that USUALLY (not always) the kids have more adult supervision around them--which means that this behavior could become isolating more quickly as parents are right on top of this stuff.  That being said, my experience is limited to the 8yo & under set.  Above 8yo there might be less supervision (where I am now, it's a cutoff for dropping your kids off at co-op classes).

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

I mostly want to echo the point in bold.  And my experience with the homeschool community (in two states) is that USUALLY (not always) the kids have more adult supervision around them--which means that this behavior could become isolating more quickly as parents are right on top of this stuff.  That being said, my experience is limited to the 8yo & under set.  Above 8yo there might be less supervision (where I am now, it's a cutoff for dropping your kids off at co-op classes).

My sn DD homeschooled until she was 12, and homeschooling become more socially isolating the older she got, which is *part* of the reason she started school. Also, the moms running classes had no training or experience with sn kids, and often were limited in their expectations to what their neural typical or gifted kids were like.
 

Also, my experience in homeschooling groups is that some moms are really tired and crave adult interaction so much that they aren't watching their kids, and that since there isn't any consensus on what behavior is acceptable and what isn't, it's more confusing to kids with social issues. At least at school, there is one set of rules which every one is expected to follow, and one neutral authority.

Everyone's situation is different, and for some sn kids, homeschooling is the best option.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

My sn DD homeschooled until she was 12, and homeschooling become more socially isolating the older she got, which is *part* of the reason she started school. Also, the moms running classes had no training or experience with sn kids, and often were limited in their expectations to what their neural typical or gifted kids were like.
 

Also, my experience in homeschooling groups is that some moms are really tired and crave adult interaction so much that they aren't watching their kids, and that since there isn't any consensus on what behavior is acceptable and what isn't, it's more confusing to kids with social issues. At least at school, there is one set of rules which every one is expected to follow, and one neutral authority.

Everyone's situation is different, and for some sn kids, homeschooling is the best option.

Yeah... because none of that has been my experience in either state.  Granted, I totally get you with running into a mom here and there that clearly wants to hang with other adults, but the only one who did so to the point of not watching their kids were ps moms.

We also never kept our son only in coop classes.  He has also had classes run for kids from ps school as well.  So he's had a broad range of teachers.  On the point about differing expectations on behalf of the teacher really isn't any different than any school (public or private).  But the coop we have attended here in IL goes through a relatively rigorous review process for hiring new academics teachers (the year-long courses) and a similar, albeit slightly more relaxed review of the enrichment/elective teachers (half-year courses).  Once they're in, parental input plays a very major role in who stays and what they do going forward.  On the flip side, back home in NJ, the nearest coop was too far for me to be trekking out to.  And it was full-on like a school complete with dress code, code of conduct, etc.

Which is just testament to the fact that it will differ depending on where you are.  And how it is near you (whomever is reading) will help dictate how appropriate it is for your child and family and situation.

[puzzlepeace]

Thanks for all the replies. After looking carefully at all the options available we have made the decision to homeschool him. We want to be able to have a very thorough assessment done and decided this was the most realistic way to do it. We may also end up homeschooling our older child but have not decided; her tuition may prohibit us from keeping her there. I did resign from my job however may be offered something part time. So lots inthe air. We decided that it was most important to get him on the right track now in terms of dx and treatment. Thank you for all your thoughts, reality checks and opinions. It helps me to see some of the challenges we will face more clearly.

[puzzlepeace]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't give your son meds and he is violent, but that with meds he wouldn't be violent?

It is a socially isolating behavior no matter what path you chose.

I understand how isolating any violent behavior can be from multiple points of view. I don't believe it is okay or condone it. I was merely stating that in a child with impulse issues it is something we are noticing at home with his sibling. His communication skill seems to need additional guidance especially due to the impulsivity.

[puzzlepeace]

Originally Posted by Piglet68 

This is totally OT but I just wanted to say how...nice?...a relief...it is for me to read about other kids with these same issues. Sometimes I feel very alone in dealing with such a child.

Hugs to you!!! It is very frustrating, especially when it feels like people judge you for the actions or behaviors that you realize are a part of a bigger picture. The hardest part is realizing it is a bigger picture I don't clearly see completely yet, though I am trying. You are not alone!!!

[puzzlepeace]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

My 7yo is ADHD/ODD and he is at a K-12 charter. At the very least your son would qualify for a 504 for the ADHD, related behavior issues, and health issues that impact him at school; but I'd also request special education testing; not for academics which he doesn't appear to need, but for other services like behavior/social skills and it would give him some legal protection as far as discipline "leeway." Has your son seen a developmental ped? He might get a more detailed diagnosis which would help him qualify for special ed services. I would try public school before other options that would cause you to leave work or move.

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we have seen a dev ped through Kennedy kreiger. We were very disappointed with their lack of addressing some of our more major concerns yet picking out things that were much more minor and harping on them. The school was definite on the lack of ISP testing/ special Ed classification until he had been at the school awhile. Given his issues we did not feel that this would provide him both the education and the protection he would need. It is a very difficult and frustrating situation.