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What do you do that cancels our your NFL/AP/CRUNCHY/NON-Mainstream/MDCness? - Page 10

post #181 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyllya View Post

Is it weird that I'm not really crunchy or AP at all, and I don't feel unwelcome at MDC? (At least I feel un-crunchy and un-AP compared to most people here. I guess I'm actually pretty middle-of-the-road.) I'm actually just here for future reference, so maybe I'd be more sensitive if I already had kids.

 

It seems there are only a few "rules" for fitting in with the MDC crowd, as far as I can tell: don't physically assault your child, don't use CIO, don't amputate any of your infant's healthy body parts, give human milk if you can, rear-face the car seat, if you ever broke any of those treat it as a mistake, and use the bag.gif smiley if you admit to eating at McDonald's. Homeschooling, letting your kids play with toy guns, letting your kids watch TV, giving birth at home, using a sling, eating sugar, eating meat, eating gluten, leaving your kid in a room alone with your dog, wanting your schoolkid to have homework, giving your kid such and such a vaccine, giving your kid Tylenol, taking Tylenol when in labor, etc all seem to have proponents on each side.

 

(My least-MDC-ish aspect is that I make video games and plan to do so for a living someday.)


Seems to sum it up pretty well, IMO! 
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by savithny View Post



 

I'll agree, and I'll take this one step farther.    The point of many people on this thread is that you don't have to take everything to the Nth degree in order to *be* perfect.  And perhaps, there is in fact no such thing as "perfect."  

 

And the first boldest statement?  Is what people are trying to get across.  There are people here with checklists in their heads of what AP or NFL *must* include, and if you don't do it all, you should feel bad about it.   Right here, in this thread, people are being told that if you don't live up to some standard of perfection, you should feel bad.  You should, apparently, feel ashamed of cribs, strollers, pacifiers and public school.

 

Funny, I've not actually seen that instruction in Dr. Sears.   Must have missed that page.

 

 


re: the part that I bolded- if this is in this thread, I must have missed it. I use a stroller, tried to use pacifiers, and use public school. I seriously didn't see anyone post anything that made me think that they think that I should feel bad about doing so. I suppose it could be that I am so comfortable with those particular choices that I don't notice criticisms of it?
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post



 

Seriously, when does this happen?  How can I be here 7 years with 6600 posts and never see this sort of stuff?  And even if it did happen, who cares?  If it doesn't bother you, then why should it matter to you if it does bother someone else?  Does that judgmental person have the power to ban you?  Does their opinion of you make or break your day?

 

I think we also have to remember that everyone has their own most important cause that maybe brought them here, or they acquired here, and we should not be shocked when other people here don't share the same devotion.  That's why there are separate fora.  This thread actually overlaps with the equally pleasant "Which aspect of NFL/AP is most important?" also known as "If you had to circumcise or formula-feed, which would you choose?"  All these threads always go so well.  eyesroll.gif  So well, that we feel the need to repeat them every few months or so.

 

Seriously, folks, MDC is not a popularity contest, nor is it Survivor.  No one is voting you off based on your list of crunchy cred.  If you are tender about something you do, then don't share it online. 
 

 


truedat.gif
 

 

post #182 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jezebelle View Post

 


 

 


That may be what you are doing.  What the rest of us are trying to do is feel a sense of companionship and support in our less-than-perfection.  And while I may not be proud of my specific shortcomings, I am proud that despite being imperfect, I keep trying.  I accept that about myself and others, and have no problem discussing it.  So I don't understand why, if you have a problem with the discussion, you keep coming back to it?

 


 

 

B/c I care about this community and this thread (and all its previous incarnations) hurts it. There is resentment, judgment, perceived judgment, alienation, complaining, and us-versus-them-ism. This thread is exactly what is complained about in this thread: a place where people list things they actually don't want to be judged for so that they can complain that they are being judged for these things by a community which is against those things.  And now there will be a new tribe where people can go feel "less than" or aggrieved or whatever, and make some sort of sad kinship out of that.  I'm not going to go start a tribe for people who find these threads distasteful and sad, b/c, you know, that would... um... not enhance my spiritual growth.

post #183 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixMommaToTwo View Post

 

We also use toilet paper.

Um, are there really people that don't use toilet paper?

post #184 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapdragon View Post

There sure is some weirdness going on here at MDC these days. How I see it- it was this AP "crunchy" board. Some people who don't agree with some of those types of things felt that this board was too rigid. And in general some people feel that some AP parents are too critical. So then people started expressing things that are not AP like for lack of better term. And elt liberated in doing so. But, now there are a whole lot of people on MDC who have different views on things than the original core theory of this forum. And now those things are infiltrating into the whole. But I think it feels unsettling. I understand why some people think people are too rigid. But this has moved beyond that- not this thread but this board, MDC. I mean- since the whole recent upheavel I now regularly see threads with long discussions involving spanking (such as- I spanked but what should I have done- which to me ( I haven't read that thread just the title) is a very uncomfortable thing to read about. Or threads about locking a toddler in her room at night. Or threads by people acting violently to theri children in some way (at least in the way I perceive it) and personally it makes me sad! I miss the moderation that happened to keep those types of things out. I don't have some conclusive point here. I understand how some peop[le want this to be a more inclusive and less exclusive type of forum. I do plenty of non perfect or whatever things, but I ultimately strive to be as gentle and loving of a parent as I can be, that is all. I mess up and  make mistakes and test limits of where my comfort lies. But I am just a little sad about a certain sense of gentleness and respect for certain peaceful values that I used to find on MDC. Now I feel like people are so concerned with letting everyone have a free voice and their own opionions that there is not as strong of a place here to promote and discuss some of the original core values that brought htis forum together. There are so very many new posters- I have noticed- people with 1,2,3, or 4 posts- writing about things that are sometimes uncomfortable to me- as I mentionmed examples above. And- I don't know. There is somehow not such a cohernet welcoming community on here right now as I used to find. I personally would like the old moderating system to return. I felt safer in that type of forum.


me too.
post #185 of 468


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapdragon View Post

 There are so very many new posters- I have noticed- people with 1,2,3, or 4 posts- writing about things that are sometimes uncomfortable to me- as I mentionmed examples above. 

  


These are trolls.  They are trying to get a reaction from "real" members.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post



B/c I care about this community and this thread (and all its previous incarnations) hurts it. There is resentment, judgment, perceived judgment, alienation, complaining, and us-versus-them-ism. This thread is exactly what is complained about in this thread: a place where people list things they actually don't want to be judged for so that they can complain that they are being judged for these things by a community which is against those things.  And now there will be a new tribe where people can go feel "less than" or aggrieved or whatever, and make some sort of sad kinship out of that.  I'm not going to go start a tribe for people who find these threads distasteful and sad, b/c, you know, that would... um... not enhance my spiritual growth.



You seem to think that we are coming together because we are somehow against natural mothering.  This is not the case.  The point of this thread was not to bitch, it was to embrace our faults.  Which does enhance my spiritual growth, thank you very much.  It is your opinion that this type of thing creates resentment, etc--most of the people in this thread feel that there is already a pervasive sense of "us-versus-them-ism," and we are trying to not feel so alone in that.  We are trying to make peace with the criticism we get, and laugh it off.  If that's not okay, then man, I really don't belong on this board.  But I guess if I go anywhere else, and finally do find that sense of camaraderie I thought I was finding at MDC, well that's just a "sad kinship," which apparently isn't worth a damn...

 

 

 

post #186 of 468
Funny, but I posted on both this thread and the one it was supposedly "against"...the you maybe crunchy if...and I felt totally fine with both. Truth is most of us are only able to be a certin amount of crunchy before our ideals conflict with our reality. So I feel fine saying both that I AM crunchy for cloth diapering, home birthing, and baby wearing, and that I am NOT crunchy for (yet get a serious guilty pleasure from) eating McD's, using a stroller, and driving an SUV.

And for the record, all humans are crunchy. Ask a tiger, shark or lion if you aren't sure. Our bones make us that way. So no amount of fast food, TV wearing or paper/plastic use is going to undo basic biology. Rejoice MDC moms -- if bitten, you crunch!
post #187 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by carepear View Post



Um, are there really people that don't use toilet paper?



Yeah, I don't know much about it, but they use like cloths and then wash them. Instead of toilet paper. I'm sure someone here will edumecate us about it.

 

post #188 of 468

I use Mr. Clean Magic Erasers obsessively.  They're the one chemical product I clean with and I'd leave DH for Mr. Clean if he were real.

I love chili cheeseburgers and Oscar Meyer hot dogs.

Sugar is amazing.  And so is caffeine.

My 2 year old watches tv.  Some days none, some a shit ton.

She also cusses.  Oops.

We hardly eat organic at all.  It's just too expensive.

I hate farmer's markets.  The one here is double grocery store prices.

I had one natural hospital birth and one completely accidental uc (100 total minutes in labor,midwives 45 minutes away) and I think people who have an epidural are "braver" than me.  I may have shoved a kid out without drugs, but they let someone stick a needle in their back!  That terrifies me. 

post #189 of 468
Thread Starter 


Im sorry, but I dont like you assuming you know what was going on in my head when I started this thread.  I am the OP, and my intentions were to start a thread that said,"its ok if you made mistakes in your AP/NFL journey".  We shouldnt have to hide behind our choices and decisions because they don't meet some high standard of Natural Family Living because a bunch of experts say this is how you should do it, and if you don't, your doing it wrong.  I can remember lurking for soooo long and being afraid to post any opinions or questions for fear of being judged or outright bashed.  I watched other posters get HAMMERED on for things like letting thier baby cry in the car seat long enough to get home from the grocery store.  It made me wonder if I was doing detrimental damage to my children pyshes because heck, I had done that before.  Posters were likening that kind of behavoir to CIO and child abuse. 

 

I have come to a cross roads in my MDC journey that I just dont care if I did it wrong anymore.  If I dont fall into the "AP/NFL" category, so be it.  But I still value what I can get from some of these boards, and damnit, I am not going to just disappear because someone thinks I should because I dont belong here.  I DO BELONG HERE.  Just because I dont have my own garden or work full time and my kids are in daycare does NOT mean I dont have something to offer in this community.  Ever try keeping your milk supply up when you have to pump 10hours a day and you already have supply issues?  It sucks.  But I used this community to find ways to do that and BFed my son for almost a year.  IT WAS HELL.  But I took away with me some tools that I could share with other mamas here having the same issues.  My son also didnt let me sleep for the first year in a half of his life.  I found things that worked for getting 2-3 hours of straight sleep a night, and I could help other mamas if they needed advice in that area.  So I am just as much a "Member" of this community as someone "crunchier" then me. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post



I know that the point of this thread was to have a thread that was directly opposite of this thread:

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317333/you-might-be-a-crunchy-parent-if

I think its really rude to jump on people on a thread where they are sharing things that they do that they consider "non mainstream" but then when you start your own thead to talk about how you "cancel out your APness" everyone who wants to disagree with any of the things you do is "on a high horse."

So really? MDC is now a place where mamas can be jumped on for saying that homeschooling is non mainstream and being proud that your kid doesnt know that babies are born in hospitals but its TOTALLY not okay to ask someone why they drive a gas guzzler intentionally? I see. Sorry, I didnt realize that.


And really?  What is so UN-NFL about having a baby in a hospital?  I had both my kids in a hospital, totaly natural, immediate skin to skin.  It was a good thing I was there with Matthew, because I started hemmoraging and would have had to be transffered to the hospital ANYWAY. 
 

 

post #190 of 468
Thread Starter 


You honestly dont understand how, even if that wouldnt bother YOU, it might bother SOMEONE ELSE to be treated that way?  Internet forum or not?  And perhaps in your 7 years as a member here, you just havent INTERPRETED those events in that way because you have much thicker skin then other posters. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post



 

Seriously, when does this happen?  How can I be here 7 years with 6600 posts and never see this sort of stuff?  And even if it did happen, who cares?  If it doesn't bother you, then why should it matter to you if it does bother someone else?  Does that judgmental person have the power to ban you?  Does their opinion of you make or break your day?

 



 

post #191 of 468
Thread Starter 

You assumed what was going on in my head when I started this thread, also.  But you actually get me, it would appear.  kiss.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jezebelle View Post



You seem to think that we are coming together because we are somehow against natural mothering.  This is not the case.  The point of this thread was not to bitch, it was to embrace our faults.  Which does enhance my spiritual growth, thank you very much.  It is your opinion that this type of thing creates resentment, etc--most of the people in this thread feel that there is already a pervasive sense of "us-versus-them-ism," and we are trying to not feel so alone in that.  We are trying to make peace with the criticism we get, and laugh it off.  If that's not okay, then man, I really don't belong on this board.  But I guess if I go anywhere else, and finally do find that sense of camaraderie I thought I was finding at MDC, well that's just a "sad kinship," which apparently isn't worth a damn...

 

 

 



 

post #192 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixMommaToTwo View Post

Yeah, I don't know much about it, but they use like cloths and then wash them. Instead of toilet paper. I'm sure someone here will edumecate us about it.

 



Search "Family Cloth" in the forums fora ;)

 

 

 

 

 

I know that, with the past moderation, threads that offered differing opinions weren't allowed. They were always flagged as "promoting" that opinion even if it was just a discussion. There was a period of time where my son had to cry to be ready for sleep. Seriously. We had to put him in the pack-n-play and let him cry for 2-3 mins before he'd come to bed and not want to play. We hated every second of it. He was about 12mo and this went on for a couple of months. I've never felt comfortable telling that story as advice because I know that a dozen people would report me for "promoting CIO" even though I don't see it that way. I've seen threads where people say "some kids just need to cry" and people jump all over them. I've seen the threads where a mom says "I was at the end of my rope and spanked. What can I do next time?" and 90% of the thread is "Don't hit your child!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" instead of the advice she needed. (I'm not advocating hitting...but I've had that thread and it's really frustrating when you ask for advice to get torn to pieces over your mistake) I couldn't breastfeed through pregnancy. My supply dipped and the pain was causing me to resent my son. I chose to gently wean him at 15mo. I don't talk about it because each time a mom asks about nursing during pregnancy someone gets on and says, "It was horribly painful and I hated it but I did what was best" and I do NOT agree with that. There have been threads tearing apart moms for not breastfeeding for one reason or another (there was an entire thread about making formula illegal or something awhile back...) A good friend of mine stopped breastfeeding because the mess of her oversupply set off her OCD. According to some moms on here she should have done it anyway because "breast is best." Nope, again I don't agree. 

 

 

It IS liberating to be able to say "I disagree" and not be worried 8 people are going to click "report post"

post #193 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by dauphinette View Post




ew, what in the world does that mean? 
 

 

it means that you were the first person who came to this thread to moan and complain about it. Also stating that you wish MDC were MORE crunchy/AP/NFL whatever and it makes total sense that you had a UC which is to some people here the MOST crunchy thing you can do...This isn't the UC forum so I don't have to pretend like I think UC/UPing is anything other than a terrible idea and I am not going to. If anyone has a problem with that they can take it up via PM with me or go to the UC forum where anything but blind support for UC is discouraged and denied. 

I'm not going to tell someone how they have to birth and I don't care what an individual person does but yeah as a whole I think UC is a bad bleeping idea...So sue meeyesroll.gif

 

 

Some of the attitudes here are really why other mamas who have been here for years feel like they aren't welcome. The fact that there are posters who feel like this thread should be shut down instead of just leaving it alone if they disagree with it is so much is evidence enough of why this thread is so popular. It isn't exactly a small number of posters here who are feeling this way but a few vocal posters are insisting we are all wrong and THEY have never seen shaming or whatever so it couldn't possibly be true...Once again just basically proves some of the points made in this thread...


 

 

post #194 of 468

Anybody get me if I say:  "Progress, not perfection?"

 

I have sat in some little rooms.

 

There are a lot of different ways to get to the same destination, even within a paradigm.

 

 

post #195 of 468

haven't read all the replies

We eat local and organic but do eat fast food or pizza every now and then

 

I BFed until ds was around 4 and  coslept as well

but he is vaxed and circumcised.  I have mixed feelings about it

we have always had a TV and let DS watch since he was small. I did try to limit it when he was younger to no more than and hour a day. Now he is 13 and I just have to chose my battles. He does IMO way too much video games and electronics for my taste.

what else, I am sure lots but I don't know a family who gets everything right

post #196 of 468

Another "uncrunchy" thing we do:  We LOVE LOVE LOVE Whataburger. If you've been in Texas you know it's HUGE down here. And rightfully so...it's amazing.

post #197 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post



 

Seriously, when does this happen?  How can I be here 7 years with 6600 posts and never see this sort of stuff?  And even if it did happen, who cares?  If it doesn't bother you, then why should it matter to you if it does bother someone else?  Does that judgmental person have the power to ban you?  Does their opinion of you make or break your day?

 

I think we also have to remember that everyone has their own most important cause that maybe brought them here, or they acquired here, and we should not be shocked when other people here don't share the same devotion.  That's why there are separate fora.  This thread actually overlaps with the equally pleasant "Which aspect of NFL/AP is most important?" also known as "If you had to circumcise or formula-feed, which would you choose?"  All these threads always go so well.  eyesroll.gif  So well, that we feel the need to repeat them every few months or so.

 

Seriously, folks, MDC is not a popularity contest, nor is it Survivor.  No one is voting you off based on your list of crunchy cred.  If you are tender about something you do, then don't share it online. 
 

 

Decided I better change that post and bow out of this convo. *edited*

post #198 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jezebelle View Post

 


Don't get me wrong, I disdain BPA as much as the next dirty hippie, but if we are going to go all-natural here, what are we doing using a computer anyway?  duck.gif

 Why, we are all using computers made out of 100% recycled materials, of course!  biglaugh.gif

post #199 of 468

Just wanted to pop in and say I had never heard the terms "AP," "Natural Family Living," or "crunchy" (as it applies to raising children) until DS2 was born.  I did a lot of the things that follow AP/NFL, but literally had never heard of names for this.

post #200 of 468

Mama, I *reject* lists and checklists and the little box (even for "AP");  nothing "cancels it out", I don't kowtow to the mainstream--even the alternative mainstream.

 

OTOH, if you can't bear the thought of someone whining and moaning and fussing about something you post up on a huge internet site with unrestricted public access--maybe a message board isn't for you.  No matter what you do, someone somewhere is going to find a way to be pissed about it.  People are still people, and people self-identifying with "AP" or "alternative" are frankly just as thoughtless, rude, mean, angry, judgemental, and selfish as the world at large--which is to say MOST are decent folk, and you decide to listen to the loudest mouths...more fool you.

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