What do you do that cancels our your NFL/AP/CRUNCHY/NON-Mainstream/MDCness? - Page 11

[Viriditas]

You know, the other "I'm so crunchy because..." thread really put a bad taste in my mouth.  Some of the posts were funny, but others seemed like passive-agressive attempts at claiming superiority over others ("Where is your compost bin?  What?  You don't compost?  I thought everyone composted.  How weird!")  And I was glad that this thread was started.  

But then it very quickly turned into people promoting things that are very clearly against Mothering's basic UA and making indirect attacks on people who do things that are considered on the "extreme" end of crunchiness.  "I circ/spank/put my baby in a ff carseat and I'm proud!"  or "I've been made to feel like a total outcast because I use toilet paper, tell my kid no, don't EC, birth with an attendant, etc."  I mean, come on!  I know that there are people in this community who will assert that birthing with an attendant is unnatural or that diapers are disrespectful to babies, but they are very, very few.  Most people on Mothering have no problem with people who use sposies, don't eat organic, use strollers, birth in a hospital, etc.  I think it's perfectly fine (and should have been expected) that people came on this thread to express concern that spanking or circing were being promoted.  That's not okay here, no matter what the purpose of the thread is. 

I've also been here for a very long time, and I have to say, this is the most tolerant and accepting I've ever seen the boards, and I'm glad to see it.  Back in 2007, if someone had posted that they couldn't bring themselves to feed their nephew formula, there would have been a whole bunch of "Oh, that poor baby" responses, and maybe one person who posts tentatively that the OP should be more understanding.  On the thread that was posted a couple weeks ago, the OP got torn a new one.

What this thread really reminds me of is the trolling board I (stupidly) went to recently where people were taking the most extreme posts from Mothering and pretending like they represented the whole community.  Then they ranted and raved about how horrible/selfish/negligent/weird Mothering posters were.  A lot of posters on this thread are really expressing veiled derision for the more "extreme" choices they choose not to make.

And Ldavis24, I'm actually really glad you finally came right out and said that you think UCing is stupid and dangerous.  You've done it passive-aggressively many times on this thread (and directly on other threads).  Your post is a really good example of why I'm uncomfortable with this thread and think it is NOT serving the purpose for which it was originally intended.

 

 

[marinak1977]

(please don't judge - this popcorn is organic)

[tinybutterfly]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

Is it weird that I'm not really crunchy or AP at all, and I don't feel unwelcome at MDC? (At least I feel un-crunchy and un-AP compared to most people here. I guess I'm actually pretty middle-of-the-road.) I'm actually just here for future reference, so maybe I'd be more sensitive if I already had kids.

It seems there are only a few "rules" for fitting in with the MDC crowd, as far as I can tell: don't physically assault your child, don't use CIO, don't amputate any of your infant's healthy body parts, give human milk if you can, rear-face the car seat, if you ever broke any of those treat it as a mistake, and use the  smiley if you admit to eating at McDonald's. Homeschooling, letting your kids play with toy guns, letting your kids watch TV, giving birth at home, using a sling, eating sugar, eating meat, eating gluten, leaving your kid in a room alone with your dog, wanting your schoolkid to have homework, giving your kid such and such a vaccine, giving your kid Tylenol, taking Tylenol when in labor, etc all seem to have proponents on each side.

(My least-MDC-ish aspect is that I make video games and plan to do so for a living someday.)

This is a good post, Cylla. Thank you.

I am sorry so many people feel pressured or put down here at MDC.

I understand there are posters on both sides of any issue who have strong feelings and strong personalities. And then there are some of us who don't enjoy debate or arguments.

There is a core set of beliefs that MDC supports and generally, anything I do or have done that is not in line with those beliefs, I do not promote on the board.

No parent is perfect.

And in my opinion parenting is a journey and it is GREAT to have other parents along the way who help. 

When I was a new mom the things I did were so different from what my family and friends were doing that La Leche League and Mothering Magazine were my ONLY safe places, the only places I found support for what I was trying ( imperfectly I might add) to do. I am OLD...MDC didn't even exist when my oldest son was a baby.

This is a very big place with so many different kinds of people. But everyone who comes here agrees to abide by the UA, which apparently has been reworked since I last visited, and also reads the statement of beliefs ( or not.)

Anyway, I come here to learn and hopefully to help others learn. I am not a perfect parent, but I do love my children and I have tried to be the best mother I could be. I figure most parents are like that, just doing the best they can and learning along the way.

I also come here for fun. I've met some great people here!

Sorry. I am having trouble writing this post. It is NOISY at my house right now!

[Ldavis24]

by many I think you mean twice right?

...I guess I am not crunchy that way, I think UC is a bad idea...

If you are uncomfortable with this thread, I don't see anyone stopping any of you who think it's terrible, from not clicking on it and posting but apparently morbid curiosity trumps moral outrage.

Charlie's Angels, once again thank you for starting this thread

Pretending MDC isn't often a judgemental crunchier than thou place is just silly. Sugarcoating judgmental comments with "gently" or "hth" or being passive aggressive does not make things less judgmental it just makes them seem that way with a casual glance. 

Edited by Ldavis24 - 6/15/11 at 5:34pm

[Viriditas]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

At least I have the nerve to come outright and say what I'm judgmental about, ie UC.

I see.  So you just don't think it's okay when people judge YOUR choices.  That makes sense.

 

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Your welcome. 

I am being bashed for my intentions, or because of what this thread has become.  And I dont care.  I know what I intended it for, and I feel Ive made some key points, as have others.  Im also glad the new UA allowed it to stick around.  Because I think a healthy debate is, well, healthy.  I love being shown how we are all so different, but we can still be a COMMUNITY.  It gives me hope for humankind as a whole. 

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by Viriditas 

I see.  So you just don't think it's okay when people judge YOUR choices.  That makes sense.

 

my choices generally don't carry the risk of hurting a mother/baby with bad/misinformed advice. There have been several extremely tragic outcomes for mother and baby specifically related to the advice that those women received on these boards regarding UC. I don't believe there can be any real argument so to whether it is safer to have an attendant skilled in assisting births as opposed to going without. Obviously is always safer to have someone there in case of an emergency.

Edited by Ldavis24 - 6/15/11 at 5:36pm

[alittlesandy]

Here is my attempt to put a more positive spin on this thread:

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317731/how-i-have-been-humbled

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

This is interesting to me because it is very much a matter of your perspective and I would wonder why your perspective is so skewed in this regard?  Why would you ever think that any of the MDC moms are coming from such a ridiculous place and then still want to get advice from them?

Skewed?  That is a matter of your perspective, and I disagree.  As for the second part of your post... There is plenty of insane advice on here, and also tons of fabulous advice.  I take what I like and what works for me and leave the rest.  Its called judgement. 

FWIW dauphinette, I agree with the vast majority of what you've said but I can tell you think I'm attacking you and I'm not.  And I understood the post you wrote about people confessing and not feeling bad.  But my opinion is that people are "confessing" and don't feel bad.  And shouldn't feel bad. 

[Adaline'sMama]

CharliesAngel,
Im sorry if you are offend that I assume your intentions for starting this thread were to have an alternative to the other thread. You post in the other thread made me feel like you were upset that it was there, and then you started this one, so you could see how it looks like you went off to start your own "anti crunchy" thread.

I had my kid in a hospital. Im not saying there is anything non-NFL about it, Im just saying whats wrong with a mama being proud that her kid plays midwife and not doctor? NOTHING.

It seems like anytime anyone is proud of anything they do that is "crunchy" they get jumped on by all the twws ladies. JMO.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Viriditas 

I see.  So you just don't think it's okay when people judge YOUR choices.  That makes sense.

 

In general, I don't judge UC threads at all even though I would never have one and don't consider them to be safe.  I lump it in with forward facing your kid at a year, and a lot of the free range parenting stuff I hear on here.  I don't think it is particularly safe, but I also don't find it UNsafe enough to comment on or judge. 

However, there have been a number of just absolutely dangerous and crazy UC threads advocating for UC even when it is blatantly and disgustingly dangerous.  And those threads...yeah, I judge them, and I hope other MDC mamas do too because if a little common sense saves a baby or mama from incredible tragedy, it is worth it. 

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 



It seems like anytime anyone is proud of anything they do that is "crunchy" they get jumped on by all the twws ladies. JMO.

I agree.  Snark belongs there.  It is celebrated there, and judging the monolithic judgmental prototypical MDC mom is the preferred pastime, so why not confine that sort of behavior to that site?  Why not run a thread like this on TWWS?  What is the point of putting it here?

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

There you go making assumptions again.  pretty clear you just dont like me.  Anyhoo............

This thread is NOT meant to be "anti crunchy".  Thanks.

Also, I didnt even KNOW TWWS existed, or any other hate-on-mdc forums for that matter, until the giant troll thread began.  I would consider myself an MDCer before a TWWSer. 

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

CharliesAngel,
Im sorry if you are offend that I assume your intentions for starting this thread were to have an alternative to the other thread. You post in the other thread made me feel like you were upset that it was there, and then you started this one, so you could see how it looks like you went off to start your own "anti crunchy" thread.

I had my kid in a hospital. Im not saying there is anything non-NFL about it, Im just saying whats wrong with a mama being proud that her kid plays midwife and not doctor? NOTHING.

It seems like anytime anyone is proud of anything they do that is "crunchy" they get jumped on by all the twws ladies. JMO.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ 

There you go making assumptions again.  pretty clear you just dont like me.  Anyhoo............

This thread is NOT meant to be "anti crunchy".  Thanks.

Also, I didnt even KNOW TWWS existed, or any other hate-on-mdc forums for that matter, until the giant troll thread began.  I would consider myself an MDCer before a TWWSer. 

Unfortunately, no matter what you intended in the title or OP, this topic will ALWAYS go like this.  It always turns into the Flypaper of Resentment.  Always.  Maybe you never saw one before b/c they used to just delete them.  I think that was better.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by Galatea 

I agree.  Snark belongs there.  It is celebrated there, and judging the monolithic judgmental prototypical MDC mom is the preferred pastime, so why not confine that sort of behavior to that site?  Why not run a thread like this on TWWS?  What is the point of putting it here?

Wait. I thought we were all supposed to let snark roll off of our backs anyway? So who cares where it is? I mean who cares what somebody on the internet says? 

GAH. And I said I was done with this post! 
 

Also, every time someone brings up TWWS it just drives more people over there. Just sayin'. 

[Viriditas]

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood 

 I mean who cares what somebody on the internet says? 

This whole thread is about people taking offense to things other people said on the internet.  

 

[Maeve]

Here are mine:

We just called to make appts to get my 8 yr old and 3 yr old vaccinations.

I like makeup. And not the all natural, organic kind.

We like Disney.

I like tv, though I try not to watch a ton of it. But still, I love my tv.

I like junk food occasionally. I think being super strict with food can lead to food/eating issues down the road. When I was on here more I was very uptight about food (along with so many other things), but I've now come to the conclusion that teaching moderation and self-discipline is more important than dictating every tiny aspect of my childrens life.

I like medicine and drs. I do use natural treatments for minor ailments, but for the big stuff? Yeah, I'm going to the dr. And I don't believe in making my kids suffer if they don't have to so I will give them medicine to help them feel better.

I think UC is irresponsible in almost all circumstances. Same with unschooling.

I love my wraps & slings, but I love my stroller also. So does my youngest.

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by Galatea 

I agree.  Snark belongs there.  It is celebrated there, and judging the monolithic judgmental prototypical MDC mom is the preferred pastime, so why not confine that sort of behavior to that site?  Why not run a thread like this on TWWS?  What is the point of putting it here?

The point of putting it here is because many people who frequent this board find it amusing and a positive experience.  Ok, you don't.  So what?  I get the impression Galatea that you see yourself as some kind of righteous MDC gatekeeper because of your extended time here.  I'm not saying that to be snarky (because I am totally on the fence about the snark factor) but because I find your response inappropriate because of your assumption that you have some kind of veto power.

I have posted exactly eleven times on TWWS because I am still testing the waters there.  I've posted many many more times here (crikey, I can't remember how many...almost 3,000?) so I consider myself a MDC mom.  And I think this thread is lovely. 

But then I am a rabid hater of censorship of any kind.

[Viriditas]

Originally Posted by Maeve 

I think UC is irresponsible in almost all circumstances. Same with unschooling.

This is exactly what I mean.  This thread isn't about making us feel good about ourselves even though we aren't "perfect."  It's about criticizing "crunchy" decisions we don't agree with (decisions that people come to Mothering to safely discuss, moreover).  The more people who come on here saying, "UC is always dangerous," or "Unschooling is lazy," or "Unconditional parenting is neglectful," the less people will feel like this is a safe and accepting place to discuss their non-mainstream decisions.

ETA:  I don't think snark and meanness is fun at all.  And I didn't think Mothering generally supported that sort of interaction.  I come here hoping to discuss things with other adults in a mature, rational manner.

 

 

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by Viriditas 

This whole thread is about people taking offense to things other people said on the internet.  

 

Sorry I wasn't clear. That was in reference to something similar that Galatea said to me up thread.