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What do you do that cancels our your NFL/AP/CRUNCHY/NON-Mainstream/MDCness? - Page 12

post #221 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post



Sorry I wasn't clear. That was in reference to something similar that Galatea said to me up thread. 
 

 



Sorry I misunderstood. :)

post #222 of 468
I would have thought this thread was lovely too if it wasnt put up RIGHT after the "you might be crunchy if..." thread was put up. And if the OP hadnt posted negative comments in the other thread. Instead, it looks really snarky.
post #223 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viriditas View Post




This is exactly what I mean.  This thread isn't about making us feel good about ourselves even though we aren't "perfect."  It's about criticizing "crunchy" decisions we don't agree with (decisions that people come to Mothering to safely discuss, moreover).  The more people who come on here saying, "UC is always dangerous," or "Unschooling is lazy," or "Unconditional parenting is neglectful," the less people will feel like this is a safe and accepting place to discuss their non-mainstream decisions.

 

ETA:  I don't think snark and meanness is fun at all.  And I didn't think Mothering generally supported that sort of interaction.  I come here hoping to discuss things with other adults in a mature, rational manner.

 



Well considering many people use it as a way to show how crunchy they are, I brought it up as one of the things that about me that isn't. And since it's how I feel and what I believe to be true, I stand by it. I am not trying to be snarky (though it's funny how trying to prove how crunchy someone is by ridiculing "mainstream" ideas or practices isn't considered snarky here...hmmm) or mean. Just honest.

 

post #224 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viriditas View Post




This is exactly what I mean.  This thread isn't about making us feel good about ourselves even though we aren't "perfect."  It's about criticizing "crunchy" decisions we don't agree with (decisions that people come to Mothering to safely discuss, moreover).  The more people who come on here saying, "UC is always dangerous," or "Unschooling is lazy," or "Unconditional parenting is neglectful," the less people will feel like this is a safe and accepting place to discuss their non-mainstream decisions.

 

ETA:  I don't think snark and meanness is fun at all.  And I didn't think Mothering generally supported that sort of interaction.  I come here hoping to discuss things with other adults in a mature, rational manner.

 


here those are opinions that are often considered not crunchy...we are allowed to voice those opinions even if others disagree with them, this isn't the support only uc forum.

 


Edited by Ldavis24 - 6/15/11 at 5:25pm
post #225 of 468
Thread Starter 

I dont see a problem with snark.  :) it is one of my finer qualities.  Ask my husband.  he loves my sense of humor. 

post #226 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ View Post

I dont see a problem with snark.  :) it is one of my finer qualities.  Ask my husband.  he loves my sense of humor



I love it too!

we are supposed to be all hugs and puppies farting rainbows and gently mama on mdc..you are breaking the rules!

post #227 of 468

I just wanted to mention that I am not ashamed of any of my choices that aren't full-on crunchy. I had a med-free birth in a hospital and I vax and it certainly wasn't because I didn't know any better. It was because I made the best choice for me (and my bank account since the birth center didn't accept my insurance). And I find it hilarious that someone would judge me for owning a stroller.

 

Those choices never made me feel like I didn't belong here. I guess I"m not into great debates, so I either just read the trainwreck threads for entertainment or move on to something else. I'm glad I've been exposed to so many different ideas on here, even though I would never consider UC, EC, unschooling, or UP. And I think I'd rather stick nails in eyes than homeschool.

 

However, the smackdowns come from all sides and these boards have been weird lately.

 

I do agree that spanking, CIO, or any form of abuse should not be advocated here. We need a place to go when many of us have families who advise such things. ETA: I haven't actually seen that happening, but people are saying it's happening on other threads.

 

 

post #228 of 468

So let me get this straight.  Saying things like, "Unschooling is always irresponsible," or "UCing is dangerous under any circumstance" are A-OK.  

 

But if you say "Public schools often stifle creativity," or "Formula is an inferior form of nutrition," you are being elitist, judgmental, and "holier-than-thou"?

 

There's a BIG difference between saying, "I think public school is the best place for my kids," and, "I send my kids to public school because homeschooling is wrong," or "I feel safest birthing in a hospital," and "Anyone who doesn't give birth in a hospital is endangering their child."  It's not about sugar-coating anything.  It's about expressing differences in opinion in an open, respectful way and respecting the focus of this message board.

 

When people came on this thread to say that they thought it might be getting a bit negative and divisive, everyone was up in arms about how the whole point of this thread is camaraderie and making others feel better about making the decisions they feel are best.  Now it's become a crunchy-bashing fest, and the argument is, "Why can't we have a thread talking about how other people are wrong?"

post #229 of 468
Thread Starter 

FTR, The bolded is still what I want for this thread, and the QUOTES is in no way what I hope this thread to become.  But I cant control what people post, I can only say how I feel and hope for the best. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viriditas View Post

When people came on this thread to say that they thought it might be getting a bit negative and divisive, everyone was up in arms about how the whole point of this thread is camaraderie and making others feel better about making the decisions they feel are best.  Now it's become a crunchy-bashing fest, and the argument is, "Why can't we have a thread talking about how other people are wrong?"



 

post #230 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viriditas View Post

So let me get this straight.  Saying things like, "Unschooling is always irresponsible," or "UCing is dangerous under any circumstance" are A-OK.  

 

But if you say "Public schools often stifle creativity," or "Formula is an inferior form of nutrition," you are being elitist, judgmental, and "holier-than-thou"?

 

There's a BIG difference between saying, "I think public school is the best place for my kids," and, "I send my kids to public school because homeschooling is wrong," or "I feel safest birthing in a hospital," and "Anyone who doesn't give birth in a hospital is endangering their child."  It's not about sugar-coating anything.  It's about expressing differences in opinion in an open, respectful way and respecting the focus of this message board.

 

When people came on this thread to say that they thought it might be getting a bit negative and divisive, everyone was up in arms about how the whole point of this thread is camaraderie and making others feel better about making the decisions they feel are best.  Now it's become a crunchy-bashing fest, and the argument is, "Why can't we have a thread talking about how other people are wrong?"

 

I don't have a problem with either extreme you are representing.  However I think it is important to realize that one can't expect universal agreement from others here no matter what they post.  So I guess what I do take issue with is people who get up in arms because people are actually disagreeing with them.  In other words I think both the person who posts that "Unschooling is always irresponsible" and the one who says "Public schools often stifle creativity" should expect others to disagree with them and not freak out when it happens.  I think that is the problem I have with the idea of support only boards.

 

I do think that disagreement can be done in a somewhat polite way though.  I am big on politeness, but can't really get behind sugarcoating.

 


 

 

post #231 of 468

If someone feels that homeschooling is wrong and that's why they send their kid to school,, I see nothing wrong with that (even though I personally homeschool). *shrug*

I still stand by what I said though, esp. on here I truely believe that UC is dangerous. People have been encouraged to do some very dangerous things that ended tragically. Some people do get caught up in having a "dream birth" and they end up listening to some very bad advice. :(

 

post #232 of 468

nevermind.  sometimes i have a hard time making sense.

post #233 of 468
Why would it matter what anyone else thinks?  If I'm confident in unschooling or unassisted childbirth (okay, not me b/c my kids go to school and were cut out of me), then someone saying either of these are a bad decision shouldn't get under my skin.  Unless if course, their reasonig makes sense on some level and causes me to rethink my position.  In the end, I still may decide that birthing at home alone is best *for me* -- all debate aside.  

No one is threatening those who use family cloth by saying it seems gross and they prefer flushable toilet paper.  To each their own, people!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
post #234 of 468

 

Quote:
i have my 25lb  10 month old son in a Front facing car seat and i have no plans to change it

 

This thread is about being uncrunchy. What you're talking about is unsafe. Even the mainstream AAP is recommending rear facing until age two.

post #235 of 468

DH and I are older parents of an almost five-year-old.  We always had a sneaking suspicion that we were somewhat crunchy because of certain pre-child lifestyle choices.  It really wasn't a list-making effort to come to that conclusion, we just had certain ideas about life, consumption and the environment that tipped the scale to the crunchier side.  It wasn't until I came to MDC, however, that I realized that a lot of people defined or viewed themselves as crunchy parents by certain practices that they employed.  No one laugh at me please, but for stuff like homeschooling, etc., my only exposure to those concepts was through what I had learned about certain religious groups.  I had no idea that breastfeeding was considered crunchy, I just thought that it made sense from both a physical and emotional standpoint.  Same for stuff like CIO and spanking, I recoil from the thought of putting them into practice but I don't think one needs to be all crunchy-like to understand that position.

 

Over the years that I've been at MDC, I've occassionally seen lists ranging from 'how crunchy are you' to rather sizable signatures containing a laundry list of crunchy attributes.  These things never really bothered me, but what did bother me was the idea that maybe people focused so much on how crunchy they were that they were setting themselves up for disappointment and failure.  Does that make sense?  Speaking for myself, parenting has been more goal-driven than anything else.  I've been entrusted with this human being, I don't know what the heck I'm doing sometimes, I try to do things which are compatable with my values (values that I had long before DD), and that there are certain times and circumstances where I must be more flexible. 

 

That being said (and I initially came here to post my less crunchy features...LOL), I love Cheetos and DD loves Cheetos.  As much as I like to toot about vegetarianism, healthy eating, etc., I gotta have my Cheetos.  I wear suits to work.  DD buys trashy toys out of gumball machines.  My clients are corporations (yikes!).  I will allow antibiotics for DD because I feel I have weighed the pros and cons sufficiently.  There is more but if you saw me walking down the street, you would not peg me as crunchy.  I feel like I have a crunchy heart, though.  I'm just not a checklist person.  I've learned a lot here, however, and I have always found that good common sense usually prevails here at MDC.  Most often, the good common sense has a crunchy/natural element to it.

 

 

post #236 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post

 

 

This thread is about being uncrunchy. What you're talking about is unsafe. Even the mainstream AAP is recommending rear facing until age two.


 

Yep. Internal decapitation. Not even debatable. 

post #237 of 468



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jezebelle View Post


You seem to think that we are coming together because we are somehow against natural mothering.  This is not the case.  The point of this thread was not to bitch, it was to embrace our faults. 

 

 

 


I have to admit, I still don't get why you would consider them "faults." It is not a "fault" that my kid is in public school, or that I use a stroller, or that I use sposies sometimes just because I feel like it. Who says it's a fault? Not anyone who's opinion matters to me.

 

There are some things that just are going to be judged on MDC. That spanking and other physical punishments are wrong, cio (not to be confused with crying in arms) is wrong, circ'ing is wrong. Breast is best. Respect your kids as human beings- that sort of thing. But those things are part of the core values of Mothering mag and MDC. Everything else...some people do, some people don't.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ View Post


 

 

I have come to a cross roads in my MDC journey that I just dont care if I did it wrong anymore.  If I dont fall into the "AP/NFL" category, so be it.  But I still value what I can get from some of these boards, and damnit, I am not going to just disappear because someone thinks I should because I dont belong here.  I DO BELONG HERE.  Just because I dont have my own garden or work full time and my kids are in daycare does NOT mean I dont have something to offer in this community.  Ever try keeping your milk supply up when you have to pump 10hours a day and you already have supply issues?  It sucks.  But I used this community to find ways to do that and BFed my son for almost a year.  IT WAS HELL.  But I took away with me some tools that I could share with other mamas here having the same issues. 

 


nod.gif

 

btw, I have mad respect for any woman who does major pumping to give their baby breastmilk. For any length of time. I seriously don't know if I could have done it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viriditas View Post

This is exactly what I mean.  This thread isn't about making us feel good about ourselves even though we aren't "perfect."  It's about criticizing "crunchy" decisions we don't agree with (decisions that people come to Mothering to safely discuss, moreover).  The more people who come on here saying, "UC is always dangerous," or "Unschooling is lazy," or "Unconditional parenting is neglectful," the less people will feel like this is a safe and accepting place to discuss their non-mainstream decisions.

 

Seems like it. There were a couple of posts back a ways that sort of implied "eewwwww! Some people don't use toilet paper? ick" (I only paid attention because it proves a point, not because it made me feel "less than" because I use cloth tp sometimes). I don't even think it's gross in any way (though I only use it for pee).

post #238 of 468

After having a break from this thread, I want to clarify some of the things I have said.

 

I am vehemently against spanking.  I would never allow my son to cry it out, and if the circumcision decision had fallen to me, I would have avoided it, as I will if given the opportunity in the future.  And finally, I am appalled at the idea of an infant in a forward facing carseat.

 

What I meant when I said that no one was breaking the user agreement was that A) no one is breaking the new user agreement, B) saying "I spank" or "my sons are circumcised" is not recommending that anyone else do it, therefore is not advocating, and C) there is no mention of carseats in any UA that I am aware of.  That does not mean that I approve of the content, only that I am willing to look the other way, as no rules are being broken, so far as I can tell.  The fact that a moderator made an appearance and the thread remains open seems to support my theory.

 

I personally feel (as someone who has never seen a past incarnation of this post) that it probably wouldn't deteriorate into a crunch-bashing session if those that don't approve would let the rest of us get it out of our systems in a humorous, lighthearted way and then return to our regularly scheduled natural programming.  Saying that we are wrong for wanting to vent or open up is what creates a "versus" feeling, to me at least.  :shrug:

 

 

Edited to Add:  I don't consider these things faults.  Many on MDC do.

 

And I would bet that those that reacted negatively to the toilet paper thing didn't realize that people might use an alternative to toilet paper.  They probably thought these people were...uh...riding dirty, so to speak.

post #239 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post



 

I agree.  Snark belongs there.  It is celebrated there, and judging the monolithic judgmental prototypical MDC mom is the preferred pastime, so why not confine that sort of behavior to that site?  Why not run a thread like this on TWWS?  What is the point of putting it here?

 


What is TWWs?  And if it is at all what I am thinking it is why in the world would an MDCer be on both?
 

 

post #240 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by dauphinette View Post




What is TWWs?  And if it is at all what I am thinking it is why in the world would an MDCer be on both?
 

 

there was a 35 page thread basically about why it is possible for people to enjoy 2 separate boards on the interwebz.
 

 

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