What do you do that cancels our your NFL/AP/CRUNCHY/NON-Mainstream/MDCness? - Page 17

[Drummer's Wife]

The whole "why are you here!?!?" or "there are tons of other places on the web for your mainstream kind" comments are super annoying.  Do you run MDC?  Everyone is welcome here, short of pervs, spambots, blatant child abusers, and the like.  If MDC is not as *crunch* *crunch* as you prefer it to be, why don't you, yourself, go find a new Internet home?  Surely there are plenty of to the extreme NFL/AP places to hang out on the World Wide Web. 

That's not nice, I know, but you see, it goes both ways.  MDC can't be all encompassing and welcoming to a variety of people - some who aren't even parents - if members all have to meet some pre-defined mold or approval to be accepted here.  Short of the infamous Kween Krunch (that was entertaining and infuriating at the same time), no one is the perfect natural family living persona, so as long as we all hold similar ideals and all want to be here, who the heck cares?

[Drummer's Wife]

I should have read the last page before posting, b/c you said it all better than I did.  Seriously, we can all co-exist here regardless of if we SAH, work, have 10 babies or none, use toilet paper or $hit outside.  Tolerance, people, and once you open your mind a bit, you might just learn something new. 
 

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl 

You are really into in-group out-group mentality aren't you?  Here is the deal:  I get to define if I belong here.  I do it by deciding if I feel comfy here, not by listing my choices and comparing them to some, apparently pre-existing AP checklist from on high.  You don't get a vote on who hangs out at MDC, nor should you be striving for such a disturbing selectionism IMO. 

I don't see how MDC is straying from their ideals by welcoming all people who need community from a great group of peeps.  As has been stated over and over in this discussion, people come clueless about what AP is, they stay for the community, and they LEARN.  Saying you only want people here with some sort of pre-existing crunch pedigree is anathema to the whole point of this community. Plus it shows a suprising lack of tolerance and patience with things outside of your little box.
 

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

MDC can't be all encompassing and welcoming to a variety of people - some who aren't even parents - if members all have to meet some pre-defined mold or approval to be accepted here.  Short of the infamous Kween Krunch (that was entertaining and infuriating at the same time), no one is the perfect natural family living persona, so as long as we all hold similar ideals and all want to be here, who the heck cares?

I totally agree.  As I mentioned in my previous post, I have learned a lot here at MDC.  I came here with certain ideals and/or hunches about how I wanted to parent and I didn't really have any role models IRL.  Much of what I learned about AP, I learned here.  I didn't come to MDC with any practical skills on the subject.  Just a set of ideals with the desire to put them to use the best way that I could. 

One of the specific things that I appreciate about MDC is that I have found a community where working moms are welcome.  It is not so much an issue now since DD is older, but there was a time where I felt that I could fail at this AP parenting thing simply because I worked.  Rather, lots of MDC parents gave me great advice and I appreciate that MDC is inclusive in that respect.  My day-to-day reality would prevent me from what some parents consider THE IDEAL.  But I don't care, MDC has helped me a be a better parent...to step back and reconsider prior positions. 
 

[alittlesandy]

Yeah, I've had it with "Take your not-so-pure AP-ish approach to a more mainstream forum." I can't get good advice in those forums! Mothering is wonderful. I am deeply in love with the community here, including the people who UC and never let a speck of plastic in their house. God bless people who are that committed! I am floored by how extreme some people are, in a good way! I ADMIRE YOU!!! I AM JEALOUS OF YOU!!!

However, I have never, in all my life, EVER fit in. I don't fit in completely here, and I certainly don't fit in at the more mainstream forums.

I need a safe place to talk about how to pump and bottle feed at 4 weeks when I HAVE to go back to work at 5 weeks, instead of being shut down with a single comment, "Mama, you should never offer a bottle before six weeks." I can't get help with this in a mainstream forum.

I want advice about wraps AND strollers. Cosleeping AND cribs.

I don't long for the "old days" of Mothering, because I am deeply relieved to know there are others like me. EVERYONE in my local mom's group had a homebirth, shunned bottles, still cosleeps, and don't own cribs or strollers. I think, WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? WHAT WENT WRONG???

Thank god these boards have not remained "pure to the ideals of AP/NFL" because otherwise I would be LOST...

[Adaline'sMama]

The thing I keep coming back to that I just can't understand is why so many people think that just because some of us have opinions about things that others consider too crunchy is in any way us looking down on them for not feeling the same way. It seems like a lot of people are getting their panties in a wad because people have beliefs that MDC's missions statement promotes.
For example:

I love to wear my baby, but I have a stroller and see no reason for people not to use a stroller.
I really think natural child birth is the way to go, but I understand that there are a lot things that get in the way and reasons not to do that. While I do think that intervention has a domino effect that can lead to an unwanted c-section, I also understand that there are a lot of other causes and reasons for sections.
I co sleep, but I have no problem with people having cribs.
I am strongly against circ, but I think whats done is done and there is no reason to make anyone feel bad for it.
I would love it if everyone could breastfeed, but I know its not possible. I wish the education about breastfeeding was better, and more supportive. Ive known a lot of women who have stopped after a few days because their doctor recommended it. I know some of the best education comes from the hospital lactation consultants.
I dont like baby food. I think its gross, and since we arent out a lot, we dont use it. I dont think twice when I see someone feeding their kid from a jar.
I use cloth diapers full time. I love them. I think they are cute. Ive saved a ton of money, but I dont have any judgment about using sposies. Ive used them before, and I will again.


If I put all of this in my signature, Id be a "brand whore" (yep, just cant move past that. It was sooo presumptuous) even though these are my belifes. I never knew what AP was before I found this website. I just planned on doing these things because its what I felt was right and because I was (and still am) poor and it saves money.



I have big problems with abuse, neglect, huge safety issues, corporations, classism, racism, sizeism, sexism, homophobia, environmental destruction, and excessive capitalism. I try to keep my negative comments towards people about these issues to a minimum because most of them dont really relate to parenting, and this is a parenting website. I have other outlets for being upset about the state of the world as a whole.

Everyone has to do what is right for them and their family, hopefully with respect for the outside world while they are doing it.

[jezebelle]

I want to respond to a lot of this, but too much to do quotes...

• For everyone that says something like, "I don't understand why people think natural mamas look down on less-natural mamas," you are either not one of the ones doing it, or you are doing it a lot, possibly passive aggressively.  I won't decide that for you, but most of you fit into column A.  We just all tend to remember the fields of clover a lot less vividly than the one sticker in our foot.
• I agree that discussion and/or disagreement is healthy, but that it should only come from people who can actually contribute to the conversation.  This applies to everyone on every subject.  Meaning, if you support UC, you should be allowed to respectfully disagree on those boards.  If you support gentle discipline, you should be allowed to discuss different approaches on those boards.  And in threads like this one--and the "you know you're crunchy if" one--people who come in just to criticize the thread should probably think twice and just turn around.  If you don't think the thread belongs, take it up with a moderator.  If you can contribute to the thread, in a healthy, respectful way, GREAT!  But if you come in saying something like, "This thread is crap, what's wrong with you people?  This ain't TheNest!" or "Way to be an exclusive cult, mamas!" then you fit into column B above.
• As people have said in other threads, threads like this one are going to happen.  There is going to be some turmoil as everyone adjusts to the new UA, and as the UA evolves, as the poll shows me it might not be quite done cooking yet.  That's fine.  But perhaps complaints about the very nature of the board belong in the Questions and Suggestions forum or a moderator's inbox, with references made back to these threads, instead of interjected just to disturb the flow of an otherwise peaceful and fun thread.

[riverscout]

*

Edited by riverscout - 6/21/11 at 10:34am

[petey44]

I'm posting this here, but really it's a thought that's been running through my mind ever since the huge trolls thread, and through several others running alongside this thread...

I get the whole backlash against being made to feel not crunchy enough or too crunchy.  When DD grew out of her little baby bucket carseat, the research I did on MDC made me feel like I NEEDED to buy some super expensive Britax (the one with the cow cover).  And because we are a 2 car family (we-gasp-both work outside the home and both contribute to the daycare pick ups and drop offs) we would actually need to buy TWO of these carseats.  I honestly cried at one point because I got the impression that I was a bad mom for not being able to afford this carseat for my child.

However- and maybe it's because I've grown as a parent, or maybe it's just a natural result from reading more and more on MDC, but I've come to realize that we (MDC posters) are not experts, or even people who have our own lives together.  And, quite honestly, a lot of people who I have come to recognize from multiple posts, aren't people who I would take any advice from in real life.  Does that make sense?  That I can read something that a poster writes, find them quite intelligent- someone whose opinions I should hold in high regard- but then I read more and more of what that poster writes, and then something comes out that is just way opposite of what I find intelligent or whatever.  And then it just hits you: why on Earth am I listening to this woman's opinions on working mothers (fill in the blank with your own topic) when she has admitted that she kicks her dog 10 times a day and eats moldy hot dogs (just as an entirely fictional example).

I know I'm not getting my point across clearly- I guess I'm just trying to say that before you take offense to anything someone says about your own decisions/choices/life, please stop and remember that chances are this person has their own crazy baggage that prevents them from really being in a position to judge you.  Put on your filter, take what you want to hear, what sounds reasonable to you, and dismiss the rest as just opinions from people whose opinions don't matter to you.  Sorry for the awkward phrasing.  

And, back to the original topic, I think the "what makes you crunchy?" and "what makes you un-crunchy?" threads should be combined.  Because honestly, there is no one in this world that is all one or all the other.  For me:

- hospital birth, with epidural attended by a CNM. 

- breastfed to 2.5 years

- pumped twice a day at work to provide bottled milk to daycare, other than that, strictly boob

- work 10 months a year outside the home (in a public school, no less)

- that means DD attends daycare 10 months a year

- fully vaxed, slightly delayed schedule

- vegetarian, mostly organic

- started out cloth diapering, switched to disposables around 1 year

- lots of natural "Waldorf-style" toys

- lots of the other kinds of toys too

- always coslept, although what that looks like now is DD hangs out in my bed for stories and cuddles, then flops down in the little bed pushed up to the big bed when she's ready to sleep- and after the dust settles from our upcoming move, we're going to try to get her in her own room, at least part time

- wore her in slings and the Ergo a TON, until she didn't want to anymore

- oh and as for as the "green" factor I am actually pretty big into all of that, but I've just naturally been like that since I was a little girl, so I don't really give it much thought

I'm sure there's more, but this has already turned into my longest post ever

[McGucks]

I always loved the phrase "save the drama for yo' mama."  Just saying.

I am curious if anyone knows the origins of the phrase "own it," in reference to one's feelings.  I am over thirty by a lot, and have never known anyone my age who uses the phrase...seems to be popular among the under-thirty or so crowd.  Is it from a t.v. show or movie or something?

This thread is, by turns, funny and sad, and I really should be doing laundry instead of reading it.

[jezebelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverscout 

The title of this thread should now be changed to "beating a dead horse" 

This is a perfect example of a completely unnecessary, off-topic, unconstructive post. Thank you for posting it directly below my post for clear illustration of my point.  

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

The thing I keep coming back to that I just can't understand is why so many people think that just because some of us have opinions about things that others consider too crunchy is in any way us looking down on them for not feeling the same way. It seems like a lot of people are getting their panties in a wad because people have beliefs that MDC's missions statement promotes.
 

Yes, this. All of your post, really. But especially this.

 

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

I want to respond to a lot of this, but too much to do quotes...

• For everyone that says something like, "I don't understand why people think natural mamas look down on less-natural mamas," you are either not one of the ones doing it, or you are doing it a lot, possibly passive aggressively.  I won't decide that for you, but most of you fit into column A.  We just all tend to remember the fields of clover a lot less vividly than the one sticker in our foot.

I was thinking about this yesterday. Very few (maybe?) people feel judged if a random person around them mentions that their baby sleeps in a crib. But if someone mentions that their baby sleeps in bed with them, there is almost this automatic perceived judgement. Maybe they were genuinely judged by someone previously. But the assumption that I am judging you (not you specifically. General "you") because I co-sleep just perpetuates the myth that all AP'er/crunchy people are judgemental. Because if you assume that every crunchy person is judging you, then you turn it into a fact in your head, whether it's true or not.

I don't care if you co-sleep or not. I care if you cio (not that I would argue with someone irl about it). But where your baby sleeps doesn't matter to me. I'm sure the same is true with a lot of co-sleepers.

• I agree that discussion and/or disagreement is healthy, but that it should only come from people who can actually contribute to the conversation.  This applies to everyone on every subject.  Meaning, if you support UC, you should be allowed to respectfully disagree on those boards.  If you support gentle discipline, you should be allowed to discuss different approaches on those boards.  And in threads like this one--and the "you know you're crunchy if" one--people who come in just to criticize the thread should probably think twice and just turn around.  If you don't think the thread belongs, take it up with a moderator.  If you can contribute to the thread, in a healthy, respectful way, GREAT!  But if you come in saying something like, "This thread is crap, what's wrong with you people?  This ain't TheNest!" or "Way to be an exclusive cult, mamas!" then you fit into column B above.

I'm not going to think twice and turn around because if MDC is going to allow people to say they spank, or cio (thus normalizing those things) or forward face their babies (which isn't in the UA at all, but is incredibly unsafe), then I am going to speak out and say that NO those things are not ok, and they are not (or should not be) "normal" on MDC. GD is my passion. Spanking is socially acceptable irl. I'm not going to sit idly by and let it slowly become normalized on MDC.

[jezebelle]

Originally Posted by DevaMajka 

I was thinking about this yesterday. Very few (maybe?) people feel judged if a random person around them mentions that their baby sleeps in a crib. But if someone mentions that their baby sleeps in bed with them, there is almost this automatic perceived judgement. Maybe they were genuinely judged by someone previously. But the assumption that I am judging you (not you specifically. General "you") because I co-sleep just perpetuates the myth that all AP'er/crunchy people are judgemental. Because if you assume that every crunchy person is judging you, then you turn it into a fact in your head, whether it's true or not.

I don't care if you co-sleep or not. I care if you cio (not that I would argue with someone irl about it). But where your baby sleeps doesn't matter to me. I'm sure the same is true with a lot of co-sleepers.

I'm not going to think twice and turn around because if MDC is going to allow people to say they spank, or cio (thus normalizing those things) or forward face their babies (which isn't in the UA at all, but is incredibly unsafe), then I am going to speak out and say that NO those things are not ok, and they are not (or should not be) "normal" on MDC. GD is my passion. Spanking is socially acceptable irl. I'm not going to sit idly by and let it slowly become normalized on MDC.

I agree about perceived judgments.  Honestly, I think we all "judge" each other's choices--it is a vital part of parenting decisions.  I observe someone yelling at their kid, and I judge that to be wrong for me and my son.  I observe someone cloth-diapering, and judge that as awesome, and assimilate it.  I think saying any choice is better than any other choice is not just judging--it's shaming.  And that's what I have a problem with.

I agree with you on spanking and CIO, too.  Decisions like that are my only exceptions to the above bolded rule.  If you are harming your child, I will not only judge you, I will act on those judgments, by trying to stop you.

And I agree that CIO and spanking, etc, shouldn't be normalized--anywhere.  And the carseat thing isn't normalized--it's illegal.  But I feel that the place to contest things like that being on the boards is in threads like the poll thread.  Telling the spanking mama and the carseat mama, etc, that they are bad bad mamas in this thread isn't going to do anything but derail this thread.
 

[riverscout]

*

Edited by riverscout - 6/21/11 at 10:39am

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

I agree about perceived judgments.  Honestly, I think we all "judge" each other's choices--it is a vital part of parenting decisions.  I observe someone yelling at their kid, and I judge that to be wrong for me and my son.  I observe someone cloth-diapering, and judge that as awesome, and assimilate it.  I think saying any choice is better than any other choice is not just judging--it's shaming.  And that's what I have a problem with.

I agree with you on spanking and CIO, too.  Decisions like that are my only exceptions to the above bolded rule.  If you are harming your child, I will not only judge you, I will act on those judgments, by trying to stop you.

And I agree that CIO and spanking, etc, shouldn't be normalized--anywhere.  And the carseat thing isn't normalized--it's illegal.  But I feel that the place to contest things like that being on the boards is in threads like the poll thread.  Telling the spanking mama and the carseat mama, etc, that they are bad bad mamas in this thread isn't going to do anything but derail this thread.


But saying that all judgment is shaming and then saying that spanking and CIO shouldnt be normalized is contradicting yourself. Obviously, you judge as something that is "wrong" for more than just you and your son it if you think it shouldnt be normalized, so arent you essentially shaming people for CIO. IDK about you, but I judge the educated. If you are educated about alternatives to CIO, and you arent in a really desperate situation and you choose to just let your kid scream, I dont see why I wouldnt judge yoou. Most adults dont let their lovers fall asleep crying, why would they let their child? To me that shows a lack of compassion. If the mama thinks that is just what you are "supposed to do" or she has tried everything else she can think of and she is a the end of her rope, thats one thing.

I just dont think all judging is shaming. My girlfriend told me that had sex with her ex while her husband was out of town. They are monogamous, and she wasnt going to tell him. She isnt in love with her ex, she just wanted to get laid while her DH was gone. I judge her. She is in a great relationship and is lying and cheating and breaking a promise she made to her husband. Not to mention the 3 kids she is putting in the middle of that situation should he find out. Judge away, sometimes people make stupid, stupid decisions that are totally selfish and have no regard for their kids.

Sorry this is in the quote box.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by petey44 

I'm posting this here, but really it's a thought that's been running through my mind ever since the huge trolls thread, and through several others running alongside this thread...

I get the whole backlash against being made to feel not crunchy enough or too crunchy.  When DD grew out of her little baby bucket carseat, the research I did on MDC made me feel like I NEEDED to buy some super expensive Britax (the one with the cow cover).  And because we are a 2 car family (we-gasp-both work outside the home and both contribute to the daycare pick ups and drop offs) we would actually need to buy TWO of these carseats.  I honestly cried at one point because I got the impression that I was a bad mom for not being able to afford this carseat for my child.

However- and maybe it's because I've grown as a parent, or maybe it's just a natural result from reading more and more on MDC, but I've come to realize that we (MDC posters) are not experts, or even people who have our own lives together.  And, quite honestly, a lot of people who I have come to recognize from multiple posts, aren't people who I would take any advice from in real life.  Does that make sense?  That I can read something that a poster writes, find them quite intelligent- someone whose opinions I should hold in high regard- but then I read more and more of what that poster writes, and then something comes out that is just way opposite of what I find intelligent or whatever.  And then it just hits you: why on Earth am I listening to this woman's opinions on working mothers (fill in the blank with your own topic) when she has admitted that she kicks her dog 10 times a day and eats moldy hot dogs (just as an entirely fictional example).

I know I'm not getting my point across clearly- I guess I'm just trying to say that before you take offense to anything someone says about your own decisions/choices/life, please stop and remember that chances are this person has their own crazy baggage that prevents them from really being in a position to judge you.  Put on your filter, take what you want to hear, what sounds reasonable to you, and dismiss the rest as just opinions from people whose opinions don't matter to you.  Sorry for the awkward phrasing.  

You're making total sense to me.  In the beginning, I felt like a horrible mother over certain things (not being able to afford the expensive car seat, not being able to afford wooden toys or playsilks, not wanting to homeschool, and stuff like that).  But then I just had to say, this is not the hill I'm going to die on.  Everyone has their "hill" and areas of sensitivity.  I can't take on everyone's hill, I'd go crazy.  I am passionate about breastfeeding.  That is my hill.  Classism/elitism is my area of extreme sensitivity.  So a lot of what I post comes through those filters.

[jezebelle]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

I agree about perceived judgments.  Honestly, I think we all "judge" each other's choices--it is a vital part of parenting decisions.  I observe someone yelling at their kid, and I judge that to be wrong for me and my son.  I observe someone cloth-diapering, and judge that as awesome, and assimilate it.  I think saying any choice is better than any other choice is not just judging--it's shaming.  And that's what I have a problem with.

I agree with you on spanking and CIO, too.  Decisions like that are my only exceptions to the above bolded rule.  If you are harming your child, I will not only judge you, I will act on those judgments, by trying to stop you.

And I agree that CIO and spanking, etc, shouldn't be normalized--anywhere.  And the carseat thing isn't normalized--it's illegal.  But I feel that the place to contest things like that being on the boards is in threads like the poll thread.  Telling the spanking mama and the carseat mama, etc, that they are bad bad mamas in this thread isn't going to do anything but derail this thread.

But saying that all judgment is shaming and then saying that spanking and CIO shouldnt be normalized is contradicting yourself. Obviously, you judge as something that is "wrong" for more than just you and your son it if you think it shouldnt be normalized, so arent you essentially shaming people for CIO. IDK about you, but I judge the educated. If you are educated about alternatives to CIO, and you arent in a really desperate situation and you choose to just let your kid scream, I dont see why I wouldnt judge yoou. Most adults dont let their lovers fall asleep crying, why would they let their child? To me that shows a lack of compassion. If the mama thinks that is just what you are "supposed to do" or she has tried everything else she can think of and she is a the end of her rope, thats one thing.

I just dont think all judging is shaming. My girlfriend told me that had sex with her ex while her husband was out of town. They are monogamous, and she wasnt going to tell him. She isnt in love with her ex, she just wanted to get laid while her DH was gone. I judge her. She is in a great relationship and is lying and cheating and breaking a promise she made to her husband. Not to mention the 3 kids she is putting in the middle of that situation should he find out. Judge away, sometimes people make stupid, stupid decisions that are totally selfish and have no regard for their kids.

I agree with you.  I didn't say all judging is shaming.  I am saying that making decisions for yourself involves judging, and that is okay.  I would judge a friend for doing that, too.  I feel that it is almost always wrong to say that just because one parenting decision is right for you makes its counter wrong for everyone else (IE, cloth diapering is right for me, so disposables are wrong across the board)--this is turning your opinion into shaming someone else for their opinion.  And my only exception to that is decisions that hurt the child, which I feel are wrong on a moral level.  Does that make more sense?

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

I agree with you.  I didn't say all judging is shaming.  I am saying that making decisions for yourself involves judging, and that is okay.  I would judge a friend for doing that, too.  I feel that it is almost always wrong to say that just because one parenting decision is right for you makes its counter wrong for everyone else (IE, cloth diapering is right for me, so disposables are wrong across the board)--this is turning your opinion into shaming someone else for their opinion.  And my only exception to that is decisions that hurt the child, which I feel are wrong on a moral level.  Does that make more sense?

Yep. Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the first time.

[jezebelle]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

I agree with you.  I didn't say all judging is shaming.  I am saying that making decisions for yourself involves judging, and that is okay.  I would judge a friend for doing that, too.  I feel that it is almost always wrong to say that just because one parenting decision is right for you makes its counter wrong for everyone else (IE, cloth diapering is right for me, so disposables are wrong across the board)--this is turning your opinion into shaming someone else for their opinion.  And my only exception to that is decisions that hurt the child, which I feel are wrong on a moral level.  Does that make more sense?

Yep. Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the first time.

No worries. 

[limabean]

Originally Posted by mamaboss 

Oh, and I can't stand the word "crunchy" as an adjective.

Say what? Crunchy is an adjective. Do you mean just in relation to parenting or something? 

[marinak1977]

Back to the original topic, because now I feel the urge to share. - I'm going to combine both my crunchy and non crunchy attributes here because they all relate.

I had a natural birth at a birth center with midwives but if I had to go get a CS I would've accepted it because by then it would've likely been warranted.
I vaccinate - on a delayed schedule. I generally support modern medicine when used as directed. I do my research.
I work and DS goes to daycare (gasp!)
I eat out too much (although not fast food) because I'm often too tired to cook, and I eat meat a lot. But when we shop we choose to buy organic and local (I'm thankful for being able to afford it because of the point above)
I have gone through 200 000 kleenex tissues this year because of constant colds and considering buying their stock (just kidding), but we cloth diaper unless we're on a trip, I mostly replaced paper towels with cloth prefolds, and I am considering trying family cloth.
I cosleep because I'm lazy and I love it.
I worked really hard to breastfeed DS despite flat nipples, started with a nipple shield, kept trying without, went through periods of terrible pain, threw the shield away at one month in, and still going strong at 17 months. He never had any formula.
I did baby led solids because again, I'm lazy.
DS is intact.
DS has never been left to CIO. I will not spank and so far I haven't even had an urge to yell (it's still early though, we'll see how strong I am).
I spent too much money on baby carriers (I probably could have bought a stroller SUV with the money), I have only 1 crappy stroller and I always feel awkward using it so I never do. I love our wagon though and so do most of the kids in the neighborhood (sometimes it feels like a crowded subway when I'm out pulling it).