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What do you do that cancels our your NFL/AP/CRUNCHY/NON-Mainstream/MDCness? - Page 21

post #401 of 468

I'm not sure I agree with the supposition that the correctly attached mother is an attached doormat. You really don't have to give up on your individuality to encourage attachment, or do gentle discipline, or promote natural family living...OK, I might be wrong about the NFL stuff, since I don't actually try to be natural, but I don't see why owning chickens or a compost heap or a worm bin would force you to always give your children your dessert. 

 

I'm really happy, chaoticzenmom, that you aren't going to keep giving the kids your goodies, and that you're going to graduate school. It will be so good for your children to see you doing something for yourself, especially something that models life-long learning. I also wouldn't worry about the whole "favorite parent" thing.  

 

 

I think of the not-yelling as a strategy to achieve my goal, which is a child who can do the things he needs to do in childhood and who will grow into a self-sufficient adult. The reason to do all the AP stuff--the family bed, the hugs and kisses, and so on--is that it should help my kid be a nicer person, both in the short and the long run. But that isn't going to mean I never reprimand him or that I do everything for him. If you're the mom of a boy, you have to be especially conscious of what it's going to mean for his development as a person if you let him walk all over you. Is that not really attachment parenting? Well, tough noogies then. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post

hug2.gifnod.gif  I have an 11 year old.  I have loved him intensely from conception and put myself and my needs always below him and his.  I'm starting to see now, how little it's actually done for our relationship.  I've always done more for my children than I should, felt guilty about not doing enough, put myself last (with the exception of hiding out behind a locked door from time to time to gain some composure.)  I find now that my kids expect little things from me that are disrespectful and I've always really enforced that (like giving them my dessert or gathering up their dirty dishes and laundry while they play video games) I think it's great to know your limits and do what you can, but take care of yourself as well as you take care of your children.  It's really hard to balance that and I think it's great for you to acknowledge that you're doing it for you because you need it.  

 

I'm really starting to take care of my own needs lately and it's very nice.  I'm going to grad school (starts tonight!) just because I want to and it's just for me:)  You know, I'm not even my kids favorite parent???  After all I've done for them.LOL 


 

 

post #402 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post

I'm not sure I agree with the supposition that the correctly attached mother is an attached doormat. You really don't have to give up on your individuality to encourage attachment, or do gentle discipline, or promote natural family living...OK, I might be wrong about the NFL stuff, since I don't actually try to be natural, but I don't see why owning chickens or a compost heap or a worm bin would force you to always give your children your dessert. 

 

I'm really happy, chaoticzenmom, that you aren't going to keep giving the kids your goodies, and that you're going to graduate school. It will be so good for your children to see you doing something for yourself, especially something that models life-long learning. I also wouldn't worry about the whole "favorite parent" thing.  

 

 

I think of the not-yelling as a strategy to achieve my goal, which is a child who can do the things he needs to do in childhood and who will grow into a self-sufficient adult. The reason to do all the AP stuff--the family bed, the hugs and kisses, and so on--is that it should help my kid be a nicer person, both in the short and the long run. But that isn't going to mean I never reprimand him or that I do everything for him. If you're the mom of a boy, you have to be especially conscious of what it's going to mean for his development as a person if you let him walk all over you. Is that not really attachment parenting? Well, tough noogies then. 

 

 


 

 



Funny, I just came back to clarify.  I don't think that a/p or crunchy is the same as being a martyr, but it can be very easy to let the lines get blurry.  Stopping what you're doing to read a book to a toddler, finding effective ways to comminicate with your children, co-sleeping if it works for everyone...those things are great.  But in my case (and it seems that in many people's cases) we've taken it to a level above where it really works for us (as the person) and in that case, it doesn't work for the children either.  I meant my post as an applaud to knowing and respecting your own boundaries without guilt.  AP=great.  Martyr, not so much.  Maybe not everyone yet knows what that means, but when your children hit pre-teens, it may be more obvious.  I have great, respectful children, but when it comes to thier relationship with me, I can see that I should have enforced some of my own boundaries. It's nothing drastic or irreparable.

 

post #403 of 468

 

Quote:

But in my case (and it seems that in many people's cases) we've taken it to a level above where it really works for us (as the person) and in that case, it doesn't work for the children either.  I meant my post as an applaud to knowing and respecting your own boundaries without guilt.  

 

 

Really well said.

post #404 of 468

I remember a story my old teacher said at Tibetan Buddhist center i used to go to many years ago.

I man was chanting prayers actions to Green Tara (Tibetan deity)  the courtyard and Green Tara was hoovering above. Two monks were observing. One monk went to the man and  told him "You are doing it wrong, this is how you chant. You are using the wrong words ". The man did what the monk said. The Green Tara disappeared . So the other monk went to the man and said " Please, forgive us, ignorant monks. Do your prayers the way you were doing before"
The man start chanting in his old wrong  way and the Greet Tara appeared .
post #405 of 468


I was *really* not trying to say that every attached mother is a doormat.  I hope I didn't imply that.  However, *for me* I need boundaries a lot further out than some people or *I* feel like a martyr.  But I've got a lot of toxic stuff in my head other people don't.  

 

I feel judged here because I feel judged in pretty much all of society.  I was very badly socialized by my family.  I don't know how to feel "ok" because I was told from birth that I was evil/bad/everything was my fault.  This is something that was observed by outside people.  It was a really extreme case of child abuse.  My father started raping me when I was a toddler.  It got worse.

 

I'm really tired of people acting like I am an evil person because my kids sometimes have to cry themselves to sleep because I am walking a thin line.  Anyone who wants to rant at me about how I am abusing my kids can kiss my lily white ass.  You obviously don't know what actual abuse is.  I'm not a perfect parent, but I am not abusive.  And it's really hard to hear the constant, "Well I guess if we are really open minded we can tolerate formula feeding.  But not CIO.  Anyone who does CIO is harming their children!!"  No.  I would harm my children if I forced myself to touch them when I am having body memories of being raped and I want to lash out and hurt anything that comes near me.  

 

Just... ugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post

I'm not sure I agree with the supposition that the correctly attached mother is an attached doormat. You really don't have to give up on your individuality to encourage attachment, or do gentle discipline, or promote natural family living...OK, I might be wrong about the NFL stuff, since I don't actually try to be natural, but I don't see why owning chickens or a compost heap or a worm bin would force you to always give your children your dessert. 

 

I'm really happy, chaoticzenmom, that you aren't going to keep giving the kids your goodies, and that you're going to graduate school. It will be so good for your children to see you doing something for yourself, especially something that models life-long learning. I also wouldn't worry about the whole "favorite parent" thing.  

 

 

I think of the not-yelling as a strategy to achieve my goal, which is a child who can do the things he needs to do in childhood and who will grow into a self-sufficient adult. The reason to do all the AP stuff--the family bed, the hugs and kisses, and so on--is that it should help my kid be a nicer person, both in the short and the long run. But that isn't going to mean I never reprimand him or that I do everything for him. If you're the mom of a boy, you have to be especially conscious of what it's going to mean for his development as a person if you let him walk all over you. Is that not really attachment parenting? Well, tough noogies then. 

 

 


 

 



 

post #406 of 468

We swim in a chlorinated pool, every day year round, even though I go out of my way to buy and fill the house with non chemical alternatives.

 

Though we don't keep soda, chips, HFCS stuff in the house, when we are out of the house we eat what's offered and LOVE it. I actively seek out  ice cream shops.

 

My kid at 2 can unlock my smartphone load a game or call her grammy. She's that well versed in technology.

 

We have no tv but damn if we don't get our money's worth from netflix streaming, to the point where my DD is confused when she watches real tv that you can't just watch Yo Gabba Gabba again and again.

 

That and much much more!  I really do strive to do my best for my kids, while keeping my own personal sanity. Sanity = banana splits and marathons of mindless shows after a nice swim in the pool, sometimes. Y'know?

 

 

 

post #407 of 468

I don't want to post a hug smilie to respond to this, because it feels really inadequate, and also inappropriate--if we were having this conversation in person, I would only hug you with your permission. I'm sad about how much bad stuff you to wade through to be the mom you want to be. It sounds painful.

 

Everyone takes away a different piece of these ideas about warm, loving parenting and adopts it as the one that's going to make their children come out happy.  They then make it their personal mission to make all other parents do this one, key, important thing. I don't think there's one single practice that's the key to raising children with love.  I don't think it makes sense for every family to do family bed, and children might sometimes cry when their parent needs a time out for herself. I know I put myself in time out when I need it.

 

We used to have these discussions on MDC years ago about baby wearing, as another example. Some moms just can't physically do it. There were moms who were sooooo in love with baby wearing that they hassled their peers about using strollers. Hey, at least they weren't pushing cod liver oil, like my MIL. Oh wait, yeah, I think there were a few people who did that, too....

 

Sometimes attached moms use strollers, and sometimes kids in attached families cry, and sometimes, well, a lot of the time when you're a mom, you have to say no. Other families might have only rainbows and unicorns and everything perfect, but most of us have to make do with the imperfect lives we have. I figure I'll find out how well this worked when my kid is an adult. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post
I was *really* not trying to say that every attached mother is a doormat.  I hope I didn't imply that.  However, *for me* I need boundaries a lot further out than some people or *I* feel like a martyr.  But I've got a lot of toxic stuff in my head other people don't.  

 

I feel judged here because I feel judged in pretty much all of society.  I was very badly socialized by my family.  I don't know how to feel "ok" because I was told from birth that I was evil/bad/everything was my fault.  This is something that was observed by outside people.  It was a really extreme case of child abuse.  My father started raping me when I was a toddler.  It got worse.

 

I'm really tired of people acting like I am an evil person because my kids sometimes have to cry themselves to sleep because I am walking a thin line.  Anyone who wants to rant at me about how I am abusing my kids can kiss my lily white ass.  You obviously don't know what actual abuse is.  I'm not a perfect parent, but I am not abusive.  And it's really hard to hear the constant, "Well I guess if we are really open minded we can tolerate formula feeding.  But not CIO.  Anyone who does CIO is harming their children!!"  No.  I would harm my children if I forced myself to touch them when I am having body memories of being raped and I want to lash out and hurt anything that comes near me.  

 

Just... ugh.



 

post #408 of 468

Great for you for going back to school! Great for deciding to be your own person! Kids need love, for sure, but love and a lack of boundaries are not the same thing. Love comes with respect, and both need to be mutual. Don't feel guilty! Take care of yourself well, it teaches your children to take care of you, to respect you, and to take care of themselves. Remember, part of loving your children is presenting them with a strong role model of a well-adjusted and self-respecting person! Love them without guilt! Children can feel your guilt and sadness, if you are feeling it, and they will take it as a reflection on their own behavior. On the other hand, they will feel your happiness and confidence, and internalize that as well.

 

I'm with you, be happy! Your kids will be better for it!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post




hug2.gifnod.gif  I have an 11 year old.  I have loved him intensely from conception and put myself and my needs always below him and his.  I'm starting to see now, how little it's actually done for our relationship.  I've always done more for my children than I should, felt guilty about not doing enough, put myself last (with the exception of hiding out behind a locked door from time to time to gain some composure.)  I find now that my kids expect little things from me that are disrespectful and I've always really enforced that (like giving them my dessert or gathering up their dirty dishes and laundry while they play video games) I think it's great to know your limits and do what you can, but take care of yourself as well as you take care of your children.  It's really hard to balance that and I think it's great for you to acknowledge that you're doing it for you because you need it.  

 

I'm really starting to take care of my own needs lately and it's very nice.  I'm going to grad school (starts tonight!) just because I want to and it's just for me:)  You know, I'm not even my kids favorite parent???  After all I've done for them.LOL 

 

I want to add that I don't think that AP is the same as martyrdom at all.  My experience with overdoing it doesn't mean anything towards anyone else's way of doing it.  AP is great, martyrdom isn't.  I do a lot right, so I'm not bashing myself either when I say that I'd redo this one part of my parenting.

 



 

post #409 of 468



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMom View Post

 

 

We have no tv but damn if we don't get our money's worth from netflix streaming, to the point where my DD is confused when she watches real tv that you can't just watch Yo Gabba Gabba again and again.

 

 

 

 


lol.gif I could have written that.  We don't have tv but DD has several wholesome cartoons she watches on Netflix.  I swore before I had her that my kids wouldn't watch ANY TV, including DVDs, but that ideal kind of went out the window when I actually became a mom bag.gif 
 

 

post #410 of 468

Ooh what do you watch on netflix?  Since we don't have the advertisements i never know what are good shows to have DD watch. Right now we just do Sesame Street and Yo Gabba Gabba.

post #411 of 468
Rightkindofme OMG, I'm so sorry for all you've been through. hug.gif :cry
post #412 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMom View Post

Ooh what do you watch on netflix?  Since we don't have the advertisements i never know what are good shows to have DD watch. Right now we just do Sesame Street and Yo Gabba Gabba.


My DD is currently addicted to Word World and Sid the Science Kid. Both really cute and cleaver. Another TV-less Netflix addict here!
post #413 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMom View Post

Ooh what do you watch on netflix?  Since we don't have the advertisements i never know what are good shows to have DD watch. Right now we just do Sesame Street and Yo Gabba Gabba.



My daughter loves She-Ra. bag.gif

post #414 of 468

Okay, so I can't REALLY reply since I'm not a mama yet. However, I just wanted to comment on the "degrees of crunchiness." It's not like it's all or nothing. For instance, if I'm in the small percentage of women who legitimately needs a c-section, I'll still carry on with the rest of my AP plans (exclusive and then extended nursing, co-sleeping, CDing, etc). Same if I'm in the small percentage of women who legitimately can't nurse...if I exhaust all options, I'll do donor milk and fill in the gaps with organic formula. If you can't do one aspect, it's not like you're suddenly mainstream and beyond redemption or anything ROTFLMAO.gif

 

Okay, so to lighten this up, here is my deepest, darkest secret...

 

I wish I was brave enough for a hospital birth with an epidural. I'll homebirth unless I truly need a c-section, but DANG it sounds nice to go in and have no pain and have the nurses take care of you. I'm terrified of needles and terrified of hospitals and I am truly looking forward to my homebirths, but I don't think that homebirthing is brave, I think hospital birthing is and sometimes I wish I was that brave.

 

Oh, and I am obsessed with TV. Love it. I already have planned to put my birth tub in front of the flat screen so that during my hypothetical future labor, I can watch TV between contractions. I plan to spend the first several weeks after my birth on the couch, napping/nursing/watching TV. 

post #415 of 468


What scares you about nurses?  It would worth your time to just tour the local hospital L&D unit and talk to people. If god forbid you need a transfer, you will be familiar with the surrounding. familiarity reduces anxiety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post

Okay, so I can't REALLY reply since I'm not a mama yet. However, I just wanted to comment on the "degrees of crunchiness." It's not like it's all or nothing. For instance, if I'm in the small percentage of women who legitimately needs a c-section, I'll still carry on with the rest of my AP plans (exclusive and then extended nursing, co-sleeping, CDing, etc). Same if I'm in the small percentage of women who legitimately can't nurse...if I exhaust all options, I'll do donor milk and fill in the gaps with organic formula. If you can't do one aspect, it's not like you're suddenly mainstream and beyond redemption or anything ROTFLMAO.gif

 

Okay, so to lighten this up, here is my deepest, darkest secret...

 

I wish I was brave enough for a hospital birth with an epidural. I'll homebirth unless I truly need a c-section, but DANG it sounds nice to go in and have no pain and have the nurses take care of you. I'm terrified of needles and terrified of hospitals and I am truly looking forward to my homebirths, but I don't think that homebirthing is brave, I think hospital birthing is and sometimes I wish I was that brave.

 

Oh, and I am obsessed with TV. Love it. I already have planned to put my birth tub in front of the flat screen so that during my hypothetical future labor, I can watch TV between contractions. I plan to spend the first several weeks after my birth on the couch, napping/nursing/watching TV. 



 

post #416 of 468

Given that my first home birth ended up in a transfer (vaginal birth after epidural/pitocin) and my second home birth ended in a hemorrhage and I nearly died in my bed I think there is a high possibility I would opt for an elective c-section should I ever get pregnant again.  My first labor was 49 hours and my second was nine days and I almost died.  I think I've proven that I'm buff enough for this lifetime.  I have nothing else to prove to the crunchy police about my birth choices.  

 

It's very unlikely I will ever have another child though.  My husband decided that watching me nearly die was enough for him.  No more kids.

post #417 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarlady View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMom View Post

Ooh what do you watch on netflix?  Since we don't have the advertisements i never know what are good shows to have DD watch. Right now we just do Sesame Street and Yo Gabba Gabba.




My DD is currently addicted to Word World and Sid the Science Kid. Both really cute and cleaver. Another TV-less Netflix addict here!



Beware meerkat manor...it'll suck you in:)

 

post #418 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMom View Post

Ooh what do you watch on netflix?  Since we don't have the advertisements i never know what are good shows to have DD watch. Right now we just do Sesame Street and Yo Gabba Gabba.



 DD loves Kipper--it's about a British dog and his friends and is very low key, nothing violent at all.  She also likes Thomas the Train, LeapFrog videos, and Veggie Tales (this one has a Christian perspective).

post #419 of 468



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post





My daughter loves She-Ra. bag.gif



 Oh wow, this was my favorite back in the 80's  . . .

post #420 of 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post


I'm going to jump on a hand grenade here. I've never really been fully clear on CIO. What exactly qualifies? To be honest there are times I put my baby in the pack n play and let her cry herself to sleep. It's never taken longer than 15 minutes. I do this because I have extreme mental health issues. I do this because I am sadly aware deep in my gut that I would be violent if I tried to martyr myself again. I just can't provide 24 hour physical contact anymore.I feel enormous guilt about this but I know this is the only way I will actually be a non-violent parent. Yeah, I feel judged here. I feel like me making a choice that makes us all a little bit unhappy is better than a choice that could be permanently damaging.

 

So I've learned that I need to add a caveat (am I using the right word there?) to my "cio is bad" statement. I apologize if I've offended you or made you feel bad or defensive about this. When I think of CIO, to me it means sleep training in which the baby cries alone, all or most of the time period, with the intention of making them learn to fall asleep on their own. It doesn't seem like what you wrote fits my idea of CIO.

I do also think it's sad when people let their kids cry alone (when the kid obviously wants attention) because they (the parents) think it's funny, or they want their kid to be tougher, or they don't want to baby them. There are a lot of such videos on America's Funniest Videos, and they make me really sad. (Like the one where the toddler is afraid of her shadow, and keeps crying and reaching out and running to Mom, who is holding the video camera. Mom keeps moving away from her so she can keep videoing the hilarity of her dd's fear.)

To ME (I can't speak for anyone else, but I would assume that lots here would have similar thoughts) that is NOT the same as putting your kid down because you just.can't.take.it anymore. I have honestly walked away from my crying son because I couldn't come up with an ounce of empathy at the moment. I was all touched out, and I was just emotionally drained from his constant tantrums during that time period. I don't feel like that was cio. I do feel like it was a crappy moment in my parenting, but if I thought that the alternative would be "violence" towards him, I would feel ok about knowing myself well enough to spare him that.

 

rightkindofme, it's pretty clear that you know that you did the right thing in those situations. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about general situations that might have some similarities.

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