What do you do that cancels our your NFL/AP/CRUNCHY/NON-Mainstream/MDCness? - Page 5

[APToddlerMama]

I think we can support all mothers while still encouraging AP/NFL choices.  There are plenty of mainstream boards that will support and encourage mothers to make mainstream choices.  Why can't MDC continue to be a board that supports and encourages AP/NFL?   I circ'd my son, but also know I won't ever do it again...also thanks solely to MDC.  The more mainstream MDC becomes, the less likely new members are going to come on here and be influenced to consider AP/NFL.  MDC has greatly influenced my parenting choices, for the better, and also supported choices I had already made.  Like I said before, I've gotten plenty of spankings here and I know other people have too, and maybe that is why people find this topic so touchy, but I really do think MDC has changed and I don't see as many harsh comments like "your baby is going to turn purple if you formula feed".  I think that is fantastic and a welcome change, but I don't think being inclusive and supportive means MDC should abandon its roots as a place where members collectively believe in AP/NFL and encourage those practices.  A lot of people are refusing to put on their big girl undies an accept that nobody is going to pat them on the back here for having an epidural or formula feeding.  So what?  You know that doesn't make you a bad mom, and if it makes you feel like one, go to one of the 10000 other boards that will tell you an epi is the best thing you'll ever do. 
 

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood 

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you don't allow people like me in, or the old naive me, than what good are we really doing? Can't we support all mothers? Do you (the collective) really think that if you come here asking for advice and someone says "Just switch to formula" you're going to have no choice but to do so?

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

Originally Posted by mommy212 

to add to my earlier list:

I drive a hummer with leather seats and I love it

i have used time outs, and I have gotten up from trying to put little man to sleep to let him cry and get tired for 5-10 minutes while I collect myself

we own a lot of battery operated toys (which I hate but if I threw them out he would have very few toys) 

This is not an anti ap thing but we also eat lots of soy milk and other soy products!

Why? How can you love spending that much money on gas? 10 miles a gallon for what? What do you do that requires you to drive a vehicle that gets such low gas mileage and is polluting the environment that much?

That is a perfect example of the kind of spankings that have people all hysterical on these boards about MDC not being inclusive.  This thread was meant to be a light hearted "we're not all perfect" place to share, not a place to get criticized. 

[Dar]

I don't recall seeing a thread saying formula feeding was child abuse. I guess people can say whatever they want, but I find it hard to belueve that someone would say that here and get a lot of support for it.

I do recall a thread about facebook in which the OP was defriending someone whose statuses were all complaints about stuff, and I think she mentioned the person complaining about how hard CIO was... but I didn't read it as unfriending her because she was too mainstream, but because she complained a lot. I actually hid someone's statuses on my facebook because most of her statuses were complaints about how tough homeschooling her kids was, and I just got tired of reading all that whining. It wasn' about homeschooling - I homeschool - it was about the whining...

[Adaline'sMama]

I guess I just dont understand why someone would feel the need to brag about how much they are using up natural resources for no particular reason other than they "love" it.

And to be fair, this thread was started in direct response of the "you might NOT be a mainstream parent if....," where things that people were saying over there were being criticized, even though it was stated over and over again that the thread was started for fun.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

And to be fair, this thread was started in direct response of the "you might NOT be a mainstream parent if....," where things that people were saying over there were being criticized, even though it was stated over and over again that the thread was started for fun.

I agree...and I don't think people should have gotten so hysterical over "you might not be a mainstream parent if...your kids don't understand why their friends can't come over until 3pm".  I will never ever in a billion years homeschool, but it doesn't offend me that someone says homeschooling isn't mainstream.  It isn't.  And if that person thinks they're better than me, (which I didn't sense at all from that post), I don't care.  I am having a really hard time understanding why so many other people care and take everything as such an attack on them if they don't do the same thing. 

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

AH HA!  So you claim that the other thread was started for fun, and I do as well.  But because its the opposite, and not inline with the crunchier way of thinking, its really just mocking?  Double standard?  (please understand I am only saying this in a "healthy debate" sort of way)

And maybe that other poster loves her hummer the same way someone else would love thier corvette.  Some car enthusiasts could care less about gas prices and carbon emmissions.  just sayin. 

[DirtyHippyMama]

I have not been too much more than a lurker here, but I have found some great support in the DDCs and GD forum.  GD is the most difficult aspect of AP for me, but I firmly believe in it, and I am thankful that the GD forum is here for me to be able to read or ask a question about something that I'm finding especially challenging.  Same thing for homeschooling -- I don't have a lot of local support for that.  There was only one response I remember feeling taken aback and ashamed/wrist-slapped because of.  I tend to stay out of heated debates, even if it's about something I am passionate about. 

I am a huge fan of Dr. Sears' saying: "Do what works for your family."

I think this thread is great.  It is a way for those of us that feel slightly out of place/less than perfect here to feel more encouraged that we are "normal."  My crunchiness has evolved over the years, maybe in part thanks to MDC.  So, on that note:

- I have MAJOR issues with Alfie Kohn.  I simply don't think following him to a tee is realistic, and I have purposely distanced myself from that guilt-trip.

- I yell and cuss.

- We eat a LOT of fast food, when we can afford it (and sometimes when we can't).

- We go through a lot of ibuprofen around here.  I use it to treat teething, among other things, and DH and I go through a 500ct bottle about every 3 months.

- We also use plenty of other conventional medications (sometimes after trying alternative treatments, sometimes as a first choice, depending on the ailment).

- I am absolutely not opposed to the use of Artificial Baby Containers, as long as the baby is happy with it.  I have been...errr...blessed...with high-need babies and if I can get 5 minutes out of the Jump-a-roo, I am thankful.

- I use the TV as a babysitter sometimes.

- I use paper towels for greasy/oily messes, raw meat juice messes, and sometimes just "regular" messes.  And we use toilet paper.

- We use disposable pull-ups because toddler poop is disgusting and makes the whole diaper load harder to get clean.

- I use bleach for mildew (and "stripping" diapers), and caustic blue stuff in our toilets.

- We have 2 vehicles, both of which get about 14-17mpg.

- I "gave up" on breastfeeding before 1 year with my first 3 children.  I regret it, but am learning not to feel guilty about it anymore.

- I had 3 hospital births (babies # 2, 3, & 4).

I could go on, but I won't -- I think I have gone on long enough!    Thanks for this thread; it feels like I have a giant weight off my shoulders!

Edited by DirtyHippyMama - 6/14/11 at 10:48am

[~Ryleigh's Mommy~]

Originally Posted by motherhendoula 

Ooooh - i like this thread! 

I use chemicals to clean - including Tide and Oxy Clean on my cloth diapers

I only CD part time

i do not know what a paraben is - nor why i should avoid it.

i have my 25lb  10 month old son in a Front facing car seat and i have no plans to change it.

I often use a stroller

we watch TV all day, every day.  (this is the one thing i am working on changing!) 

we do not eat organic produce - although i do make all my own baby food.

whenever Oreos are on sale - i buy them.

I used to smoke - when my oldest two were little i smoked - in the house, in the car, i smoked.  Of course, i didnt know what AP was back then!

Whoa whoa whoa.

That has NOTHING to do with being AP or natural.

It is highly illegal and life threatening to your child.

I'm just gonna stop right there.

[insidevoice]

I replied to this, then bumped the button on the surge strip.  Probably that was for the best. 

Synopsis!

I try not to buy into the One Right Way parenting approach.  Different things will work for all of us.  I know I discipline and praise more than many folks here.  It works for my kids and my family.  It meets the needs my kids have- in that it's as much AP as any other option.  Discussing why we shouldn't hit our little brother over the head with the toy just doesn't work here.  My kid looks at me as though he's won and wanders off grinning only to do the Same Darn Thing 15 seconds later.  Telling him to sit down right where he is for a time out- and then (gasp!)  making him hand the toy he was trying to steal and use as a weapon over to his victim?  That works.  It works really well for him.  I will not be made to feel guilty about how I handle those moments or made out to be painted as a monster by someone who thinks my world should all be sunshine, unicorns, and rainbows.  If you have kids your approach works with- great, they are not my kids, and my kids have different needs.  My trying to parent the the way someone else thinks is right and not giving them boundaries and consequences is no different than my trying to parent them through hitting, screaming, and yelling would be.  None of it would be good for my children.  I would not be meeting their needs, and that would be as un-AP  as anything could be. 

The gist here is that this debate is over who does the best for their kids.  Who is the most loving, most caring, Bestest Parent Ever!!!  We are pretty blessed to live in a society where we can take the time and energy to care about what we think is best.  We are blessed to be able to debate whether the food we are feeding our kids is organic enough or healthy enough.  Around the world as we discuss the horror of Nutella as a food source, kids starve. In other parts of the world, as we discuss what it is to use Gentle Discipline, young children are conscripted to the armies around the world, and young girls are being forced to have sex before they even hit puberty.  

Chances are, if you are thinking about what is best for your child, and if you actively consider their well being throughout their lives, your kids will be just fine- even if they occasionally eat a twinkie or if you lose it and yell once in a while.  The TV won't kill them off- even if you use it to buy yourself time for a much deserved shower.  Yes, we can all find something we have done wrong or something to feel guilty about, but it really seems like energy that could better be spent on our families well-being rather than feeding the bottomless pit of Mommy-Guilt. 

[Dr.Worm]

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood 

 I've not been in tears but have been upset by people jumping down my throat for not conforming to the perfect AP standard. It ticks me off how a person can just hide behind "Well, there are other mainstream boards if you want to have views like that" instead of actually considering somebody else's parenting choices as valid, for them.

Whatever happened to live and let live? Barring any actual child abuse (And no, that does not include formula feeding no matter how you slice it.) I don't see why all the extreme judgement and holier-than-thou even has to come into play. 

Why not bring more "mainstream" people in from other boards so they can be exposed to new ideas instead of kicking them to the curb for not quite making that mark. 
 

Yeah...MDC is a wonderful place to go to for support and education but unfortunately yes, it can be a very judgmental place also.  I feel sad that I have to worry that if I send friends here they will get upset by what they see and that won't help them learn about AP at all.

[purplerose]

I yell, send kids to their rooms, one was grounded for 3 months when she was 15 for sneaking a boy over when we weren't home (and not making attitude adjustments afterwards so she dragged out her restriction way longer than it needed to be), I smoke, and cuss, I do homebirth but in a very non-peaceful manner once I hit transition, my third baby would ONLY sleep on the floor, not any type of bed, so to keep her safe I emptied our closet and she slept on the closet floor. I talk dirty, I don't recycle whatsoever, one of my daughters plays sports, we watch lots of tv, and if I had a label it would be something like hippy hick. I am a hick but am called a hippy by lots of people in my area for my ap-type choices. I couldn't stand to be totally ap/nfl but there's no way I could be totally mainstream, either, because there are safety/health issues involved there(like carseats and feeding and things like that). I like a nice middleground, there, and imo that's how it should be. I have friends who are totally ap/nfl and friends who are totally mainstream, and as long as no one is abusing or neglecting their children I don't care. The thing with the forward facing carseat really worries me as that's actually a big deal, not just a choice between a sling vs a stroller, but an actual safety issue!

[Dr.Worm]

I feel like a misfit alot...I dont quite fit in here or mainstream boards cause I have crunchy AND mainstream traits.

Crunchy Traits

Breastfeeding

Co-sleeping

Gentle Discipline

Natural cleaners

Mainstream Traits

Circing

Vaccinating

Fast Food

tv

public school

[Dr.Worm]

By the way, Charlie's Angel...this is a great thread!! And I have to point out, that I often do on these boards, that even Dr. Sears says in his books that AP is not a checklist of do's and dont's..its about doing what's best for your family.  He must get frustrated and sad about how mothers treat each other like they are terrible for not quite following all the AP rules.

[Dr.Worm]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

Okay... this may end up being long... because there are  lot of thoughts tumbling around in my head on this.

MDC wants a bigger internet prescence... well... if they want that so badly that they threw out their magazine and are now launching ALL efforts into web prescence, such as facebook, twitter, etc...

Then sorry, yes ALL AP/NFL is not going to be able to bring enough traffic to the site... you will get some more mainstream... you will get a good number of middle roaders, like myself, and others who were brave enough to post here.

If Mothering wants to continue making money and to thrive... and now that they are only a web prescence... I think they are going to have to be a bit more welcoming.  I'm not saying to advocate CIO or hitting, whatever...

BUT!  As someone else mentioned... to not condone c-section talk or formula feeding... well, it's going to ostracize a lot of Mom's... and a lot of potential members that could offer A LOT to other discussions here.  We are all just trying to do the best we can as Moms.

I have seen the comments on how formula feeding is akin to child abuse.  Let me tell you how awesome those comments are to someone like myself (and I know I'm not alone)... who is very pro-breastfeeding, and BF my DD as long as I could (until my milk dried up when I got pregnant)... but faced some very scary events... I got pre-eclampsia, almost died, had to have an emergency c-section, my baby almost died and could not breath on his own for weeks.... so he could not be put to the breast for weeks.  I pumped round the clock... nothing like setting your alarm every 2.5 hours to pump through the night while your small babe was in an isolette at the NICU...

I did this until he was 3 months old... until something had to give.  I'm a single Mom, with not the most supportive parents.  I could not sustain getting up every 2 hours to feed and then pump my baby... I HAD to sleep.  I also have fibromyalgia which was in a horrible flare up due to PTSD from the pre-e wonderfulness, and NO sleep, the stress of NICU, etc...

When I mentioned I just could not keep up with this pumping schedule anymore and felt I had to switch to formula to keep my sanity... did I get encouragment?  Uh no... I got "talk to the LC, do this and this and this..."  I DID all of that... I mean really... advocating for a Mom not to sleep at all... I had reached a point where I was unable to fully take care of myself and my 2 kids because I was so sleep deprived.  I was seriously losing my mind.

It just can't be so extreme.  If someone has made a non-AP/NFL decision that is right for THEIR family... they shouldn't get flamed.  The fact that the person is on Mothering at all, I think speaks volumes that they obviously CARE about being a Mom and trying to do the best they can.

But the constant judging and holier than thou... and the extreme BS of equating certain choices to child abuse is NOT helpful... and MDC will one day cease to exist because there are just too many peopele with too many different circumstances to be all perfect all the time.

If MDC hasn't noticed... activity has CRASHED here.  It used to be hard to keep up with the few boards I frequent... now I'm BORED because there has been no new content in days.  It's sad.

Also... most of us "middle" types aren't comfortable on a full out mainstream board... For myself this is the case.  I've tried a few out...  MDC has always felt more like home to me... it just sadly has also felt to scornful at times too.

Being the largest mothering board on the internet... I think there can be a middle ground found that advocates AP/NFL... but also realizes we are all HUMAN and need support in all our mothering journeys.  If MDC wants to regain activity and not wither and die off... I really think they have no choice but to consider this.

/end soap box rant.

*hugs*  Thank you Gina for starting this thread... I think it will end up being very eye-opening.

I also agree with another PP... AP isn't being all crunchy/extreme... it's Listening and doing what is BEST for your babe.  I had to FF my son in order to be a more loving and responsive Mom.  That doesn't make me non-AP.  I do my best with the cards I have.

Excellent post

[Dr.Worm]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

If you go you have to tell me where!  LOL  I have yet to find a place I fit too.   Love you Gina!   *hugs*

Yeah me too
 

[sosurreal09]

Maybe you need to re look at my wording where I said Circing a child DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT AP. I can not get into a circ argument. Mutilating anyone's genitals is not OK in my book for ANY reason. I understand and empathize with someone who did that un-informed b/c I know they were trying to do "what was best (what they were told was best)" but anyone who is informed and is still por-circ makes me sick. There is no circ debate! None! No medical organization in the world recommends circ and all those "studies" done that show how much cleaner/healthier whatever a circ'ed penis is were all wrong or exaggerated and yes the AAP recognized that and says RIC is not worth it for "medical benefits". Even they say it's only for religious or social benefits now. End of discussion!
 

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

And there is an interesting point....  I really feel this is a personal decision to the person.  This is such a flame war discussion... and so many strong opinions on BOTH sides.

Just because a person reads ALL the research presented on BOTH sides and comes to a different decision than you... does not make them a child abuser or a non-AP, or even a bad parent. 

*shrugs*  Just my not so humble opinion on that whole can of worms....

You can debate a LOT of things but IMO when a child is hurt (and you can't tell me cutting off a part of your genitals would not hurt) then it is no longer debatable even if they possibly maybe someday could have some sort of infection.

[Dr.Worm]

Sorry I keep posting so much...another thing I do wrong lol....but what if we started a Finding Your Tribe thread for Middle-Roaders???

[Vermillion]

Ok, I'll play I'm usually a super perfect mom but pregnancy has made me a little lazy!!! Over the last few weeks of dealing with being tired and nauseous, I've totally let my son go to town on the xbox or the sims 3 so I can lay around and watch trash TV... Mob Wives, anyone?

As for food related stuff... well, let's just say that I have some cravings and my son has said to me a few times "I love you being pregnant! We get to eat all kinds of junk!"

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by Dr.Worm 

Sorry I keep posting so much...another thing I do wrong lol....but what if we started a Finding Your Tribe thread for Middle-Roaders???

I don't think anyone would say you post "so much"...you are a sneaky lady as I said before, you fly in and out real quick!

[jezebelle]

I don't understand why people are upset about this thread.

I see it much the same way I would see a thread about "cheating" on a weight loss board.

People on weight loss boards often post about the chocolate bar they ate that ruined their calorie count, and they get empathy because everyone makes mistakes and they are still trying.

That's how I see this thread.  As a sort of, "sure, we all aren't perfect, and here is how I am not perfect, but at least we are trying to be more natural, so we are still okay, now let's all have a group hug" type of thread.

If we didn't support AP/NFL, we would just leave MDC.

No one here is advocating anything against the TOS (at least that I have seen), so if you don't like the thread, how about you just stop reading it and let the rest of us get some things off our chests.  It makes us feel better about ourselves and our efforts to be crunchy, and that in turn allows us to be better parents and not give up AP/NFL because we see it as just too hard to be perfect.