Mothering Supports Racist Homophobic diatribe - Page 3

[fullofgrace]

Hi everyone,

In order to open this important conversation up to the entire community (rather than just those with 50 posts/60 days), I've moved this thread to Questions & Suggestions.

ETA - I left a permanent clickable redirect in TAO so it will still be visible and accessible from there, as well.

[calldeville]

I appreciate Peggy's response, but I'm still confused here, especially with all of the other comments. Am I alone? Does Mothering actually have policies or positions about such issues as liberal vs. conservative or gay vs. straight? I'm not sure why they would.

[Laurski]

I just wanted to chime in with another call for a formal apology placed in a static place on the main forum page, not placed in a thread that will slowly get buried by new threads.

I genuinely don't understand what's going on at Mothering.  Granted, I'm relatively new, but how are the recent controversial Facebook threads (with accompanying disgusting comments) and now this Pat Robertson nonsense being allowed to "slip through"?  Why is there no due diligence done with regard to advertisers?  (Seriously, it took me exactly 2 seconds and 1 google search to confirm the Operation Blessing/Pat Robertson connection, all done while nursing my 9.5 month old.  If I can do such a quick due diligence check, why can't the Mothering ad staff?)

It seems as though Mothering needs to do 2 things ASAP before it risks completely alienating many of its members:

1. Do some serious soul-searching regarding just what audience it is trying to court.  Posting threads that seem geared to invite racist, classist, and homophobic sentiments, allowing homophobic comments to remain up on your Facebook page for an unconscionably long amount of time, and now ("inadvertently") partnering up, even briefly, with an organization affiliated with Pat Robertson suggests that Mothering is positioning itself in such a way that implies a tacit agreement with, if not an explicit supporting of, such hateful extremist invective.

2. Hire people who actually know how advertising and social media work.  I don't understand how these snafus continue to happen.  There have been issues with what was publicly visible on Facebook and hateful comments have been allowed to stay up on the Facebook site (which suggests Mothering endorses these views).  I feel like I may be missing some Facebook issues, but since I'm not on Facebook, I'm not sure.  Additionally, it's my understanding, based on reading old threads, that there has been at least one other major advertising dust-up (TOS/Pearls), which I would have thought would have lead Mothering to do a bit more due diligence when accepting advertisers.  Does Mothering now at least have an opt-out clause in their advertising contracts that allows it to pull ads that don't line up with Mothering's philosophies?

I'm just really disappointed in the way things have been going over here.  I originally joined Mothering for the DDC, and found it to be a wonderful resource during my pregnancy.  Now I'm really uncomfortable with much of what seems to be flying under the official Mothering flag, and I'm just not sure I can stay.

[Ornery]

Their position is that hate language is not tolerated here:  "We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, sizeism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled."

Whether or not that is actually enforced seems to depend on who is posting it.  If Mothering or a mod posts it, we're supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt (white privilege thread, anyone?).  However, if a member points out the homophobia and racism (huge amounts of comments about homophobic and racist comments on the FB thread), the comment gets removed (case in point, this thread was removed for a time while they scrambled to backpedal regarding the original ad).  Funny how that works.....

[~savah~]

Originally Posted by calldeville 

I appreciate Peggy's response, but I'm still confused here, especially with all of the other comments. Am I alone? Does Mothering actually have policies or positions about such issues as liberal vs. conservative or gay vs. straight? I'm not sure why they would.

You're not sure why Mothering would have a policy against bigotry?

[calldeville]

Originally Posted by ~savah~ 

You're not sure why Mothering would have a policy against bigotry?

I think you need to read my words a little more slowly. I'm not sure why Mothering.com would express support and give publicity to an organization that openly discriminates. I think as the above messages show, this Web site is populated by regular visitors of all races, creeds, ethnicities, and orientation.

[joensally]

I would appreciate knowing who the author was of the Study: Whites Believe They Are Victims of Racism More Often than Blacks OP.  Edit for clarification: I don't mean their name, I mean their role, authority and reporting/approval requirements.

Just this thread, in addition to the Pat Robertson thread, smell rotten.

Who actually has decision-making and editorial control at this point?

Cynthia, how did the Study thread stand up better in your (collective MDC staff) eyes than the Robertson thread?

We absolutely agree that this ad was an atrocious one. We pulled is as soon as we became aware of what it was. It was not posted by Mothering staff but by an ad sales rep using the Mothering username, which is customarily used for the placement of Giveaways, Contests, Deals, and for featuring threads.

[Laurski]

Originally Posted by Ornery 

Their position is that hate language is not tolerated here:  "We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, sizeism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled."

Whether or not that is actually enforced seems to depend on who is posting it.  If Mothering or a mod posts it, we're supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt (white privilege thread, anyone?).  However, if a member points out the homophobia and racism (huge amounts of comments about homophobic and racist comments on the FB thread), the comment gets removed (case in point, this thread was removed for a time while they scrambled to backpedal regarding the original ad).  Funny how that works.....

Hmmm....

So Mothering, through its UN posts, and through its affiliation with Operation Blessing, has violated its own UA.

Can Mothering be banned?

It is a mystery...
 

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by joensally 

I would appreciate knowing who the author was of the Study: Whites Believe They Are Victims of Racism More Often than Blacks OP.  Edit for clarification: I don't mean their name, I mean their role, authority and reporting/approval requirements.

Just this thread, in addition to the Pat Robertson thread, smell rotten.

Who actually has decision-making and editorial control at this point?

Cynthia, how did the Study thread stand up better in your (collective MDC staff) eyes than the Robertson thread?

I just answered this question on the other thread.   This one is fully mine.  Cynthia asked me if I thought that the study would be too much for a QOTD, and I said while it might be heated, it might be a really good conversation.  In my ideal little head space, and visions of previous conversations on MDC I thought that it might turn into a good conversation on race relations and what racism was.

Clearly, I was full on, flat out wrong. For that, I apologize.

We have had some pretty intense race discussions started off of things similar to that study.  They turned into some great conversations.  

ETA - I removed that thread.  Clearly, I was incorrect, and removed the thread accordingly.

[Skinjob]

Peggy,

Instead of continuing to lay blame on this new affiliate who posted the "advertorial" post (which in and of itself is pretty low to include on the forum), Mothering should just outright apologize. You screwed up. It decimated your online community. Passing the buck isn't going to cut it. It's bad enough you shut down publication of the print magazine without notifying the subscribers. Refusing to take responsibility for this ugly mess isn't going to earn you any new fans. You owe it to your members to publicly apologize.

[InMediasRes]

Add me to the "disgusted" group. I can't believe this was even allowed to happen, and nothing less than a formal apology would earn my respect back for Mothering and MDC. 

[milletpuff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher 

Do you think my apology in my post was insufficient? What is lacking that you feel needs to be said better? Serious question, not sarcastic at all.  If our FB team feels it is needed on FB then I'm fine with them publishing it to FB and I will pass that suggestion on to them. 

I'd like to just reiterate that I do not think an in-thread apology (that was later followed by the dismissive and minimizing comment, "Stuff happens,") is enough to make me feel like my family is welcome here. I am not the only one who has requested a formal apology, and at this point, two full days later, it's just embarassing and insulting. I feel like the hurt, frustration, surprise and anger that I felt, along with the others that have posted in these threads, were not taken seriously.

[Ornery]

Is an apology going to be made to the full community by Peggy?  Or is this thread it?

[HappyHappyMommy]

Originally Posted by paphia 

A formal apology would state that the admin team recognizes there was a lack of protocol when accepting sponsored article advertisements, and that new measures are in place to make sure all advertisements are reviewed before being placed.  It would state that Pat Robertson's organization using Mothering to promote it's cause was unacceptable and it would clearly state that Mothering does not support or wish to associate with any organizations who promote hate.  Then it would say that everyone involved wants to formally apologize to the community members who were hurt by the offensive nature of the organization.

Originally Posted by karne 
 This was really disgusting.  I hope that you run a banner headline across the site apologizing for this.  It really should have been done already.

Originally Posted by starling&diesel 

Ghastly.  Positively ghastly.  I'm with milletpuff.  A formal apology posted outside the confines of this thread would be a more appropriate statement by Mothering, in a platform that would be seen be more than the few who have looked at this thread.  And I'm also with velochic, in that it's beginning to be a pretty slimy environment around here.  I miss my Mothering. 

Originally Posted by milletpuff 
A formal apology would be *acknowledging* that homophobia, racism, and all the things that the UA specifically prohibit ARE here, that there are plenty of members here and fans on facebook who are very opposed to queer families, or who have some seriosuly unchecked racist beliefs. And that Mothering is actively taking as stand AGAINST that. I feel like you are trying to stay neutral but "neutrality" is part of the problem in this instance.

Originally Posted by Viriditas 

I would also like to say that I feel an official, visible apology is in order, along the lines of what pp's have suggested.  I'm glad that Mothering has admitted and corrected this mistake, but the whole community needs to know where Mothering stands on this.

 

Originally Posted by Laurski 

I just wanted to chime in with another call for a formal apology placed in a static place on the main forum page, not placed in a thread that will slowly get buried by new threads.

Originally Posted by Skinjob 

Peggy,

Instead of continuing to lay blame on this new affiliate who posted the "advertorial" post (which in and of itself is pretty low to include on the forum), Mothering should just outright apologize. You screwed up. It decimated your online community. Passing the buck isn't going to cut it. ... Refusing to take responsibility for this ugly mess isn't going to earn you any new fans. You owe it to your members to publicly apologize.

Originally Posted by InMediasRes 

Add me to the "disgusted" group. I can't believe this was even allowed to happen, and nothing less than a formal apology would earn my respect back for Mothering and MDC. 

Originally Posted by milletpuff 

Quote:

I'd like to just reiterate that I do not think an in-thread apology (that was later followed by the dismissive and minimizing comment, "Stuff happens,") is enough to make me feel like my family is welcome here. I am not the only one who has requested a formal apology, and at this point, two full days later, it's just embarassing and insulting. I feel like the hurt, frustration, surprise and anger that I felt, along with the others that have posted in these threads, were not taken seriously.

I agree with all of the posters quoted above and add my voice to those requesting a formal apology, with a banner headline, in a static place on the main forum page *acknowledging* that homophobia, racism, and all the things that the UA specifically prohibit ARE here and that Mothering is actively taking as stand AGAINST that.

Originally Posted by milletpuff 

Would you be willing to issue a formal written apology, posted both here and on the Facebook page?

Originally Posted by Ornery 

Peggy, will there be a formal apology outside of this thread?  The entire community was exposed to this and should be apologized to.

Originally Posted by Ornery 

Is an apology going to be made to the full community by Peggy?  Or is this thread it?

Please answer this question.

Originally Posted by milletpuff 

This is not the first time on this site that I, as a queer woman, have felt unsafe and devalued as a part of this community. So yes, I do feel like a formal statement that doesn't just disappear as a thread falls down the page in a forum, that truly acknowledges how divisive and hurtful these kinds of mistakes are, and how queer families are welcomed and supported would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by TheGirls 

Chiming in as another queer woman who has been made increasingly uncomfortable by this organization.

I'd like to add my voice as another queer woman who feels that this is the not the first time that I have felt uncomfortable, unsafe, unimportant, and unvalued as part of this community. I wish Mothering was more vocal that queer families are welcome and supported and more active in addressing homophobia.

Originally Posted by Snowflake777 

For what it's worth, I absolutely loathe sponsored threads. They blur the boundaries between real users and advertisers. Yuck yuck yuck!

I agree with completely with the statement above.

I hope the the Mothering admins will do some soul-searching and reverse a lot of the recent changes, recommit themselves to supporting natural family living, and committ themselves to actively combatting bigotry and hate.

[princesstutu]

I would love a reply to my questions, Peggy. 

[FtMPapa]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

I just answered this question on the other thread.   This one is fully mine.  Cynthia asked me if I thought that the study would be too much for a QOTD, and I said while it might be heated, it might be a really good conversation.  In my ideal little head space, and visions of previous conversations on MDC I thought that it might turn into a good conversation on race relations and what racism was.

Clearly, I was full on, flat out wrong. For that, I apologize.

We have had some pretty intense race discussions started off of things similar to that study.  They turned into some great conversations.  

ETA - I removed that thread.  Clearly, I was incorrect, and removed the thread accordingly.

Adina, it was more than you were flat out wrong.  The way that the topic was framed was wrong.  

It's clear that you misread the study - the studied showed that white people believe that working against racism means working against their own self-interest.  You, on behalf of Mothering, turned that into "How have white people been discriminated against?"  

Which shows that you didn't fully understand the article.

Your apology, such as it is, places the blame back on the MDC users, in effect, you're saying "clearly our users weren't up to having a great conversation."   You're saying you're sorry that you misjudged the topic, not that you're sorry that you created a forum for racism and perpetuated racist ideas by misrepresenting the study.

Your mistake is bigger than you admit, and your apology comes a day late and a dollar short.  

Peggy - we are still waiting for a reply to the question.
 

[Arduinna]

 

Originally Posted by calldeville 

I appreciate Peggy's response, but I'm still confused here, especially with all of the other comments. Am I alone? Does Mothering actually have policies or positions about such issues as liberal vs. conservative or gay vs. straight? I'm not sure why they would.

I'm confused too. 

I'm confused if the complaints are really that this charitable organization that according to their website has been around since 1978 and works with a bunch of US government groups like FEMA in providing food, water and health care to those in need is being rejected because Pat Robertson started it or if the problem is that there was line blurred between advertising and "staff" support a la the thread ( I never saw the thread myself).

So is this a political beef or a advertising masking as information beef?

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

I just answered this question on the other thread.   This one is fully mine.  Cynthia asked me if I thought that the study would be too much for a QOTD, and I said while it might be heated, it might be a really good conversation.  In my ideal little head space, and visions of previous conversations on MDC I thought that it might turn into a good conversation on race relations and what racism was.

Clearly, I was full on, flat out wrong. For that, I apologize.

We have had some pretty intense race discussions started off of things similar to that study.  They turned into some great conversations.  

ETA - I removed that thread.  Clearly, I was incorrect, and removed the thread accordingly.

Well when I saw it I just thought you all were trying to be provocative. I sorta saw it as a bait thread to get a hot topic going, especially considering how many I've seen so many thread on controversial topics go downhill in about 5 seconds,  so I totally ignored it. 

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by Arduinna 

I'm confused too. 

I'm confused if the complaints are really that this charitable organization that according to their website has been around since 1978 and works with a bunch of US government groups like FEMA in providing food, water and health care to those in need is being rejected because Pat Robertson started it or if the problem is that there was line blurred between advertising and "staff" support a la the thread ( I never saw the thread myself).

So is this a political beef or a advertising masking as information beef?

Personally, I have a beef with both. But my biggest issue is advertising for an organization that is associated with a bigot like Robertson. A person who is a racist, a religionist, a sexist, and a homophobe. A person that would love it if a good portion of the families of mothering members just disappeared off the face of the earth.

[Ornery]

Originally Posted by eclipse 

Originally Posted by Arduinna 

I'm confused too. 

I'm confused if the complaints are really that this charitable organization that according to their website has been around since 1978 and works with a bunch of US government groups like FEMA in providing food, water and health care to those in need is being rejected because Pat Robertson started it or if the problem is that there was line blurred between advertising and "staff" support a la the thread ( I never saw the thread myself).

So is this a political beef or a advertising masking as information beef?

Personally, I have a beef with both. But my biggest issue is advertising for an organization that is associated with a bigot like Robertson. A person who is a racist, a religionist, a sexist, and a homophobe. A person that would love it if a good portion of the families of mothering members just disappeared off the face of the earth.

Yep.

I thought I was pretty clear why Mothering shilling for a known racist, homophobic woman hater bothered me. 

ETA:  Stupid smilies didn't work.