The Vibe of MDC right now - Page 4

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by Subhuti 

SSh, with respect, here are my thoughts.  I don't really understand what people are waiting for.  In many threads it was explained that it was an error based on the relationship w/Huddler and had to do with a computer algorythm that assigned the ad/post.  It sounds like the error was not picked up, so it was also human oversight.  

Yes, if it's racist or homophobic -- gross.  But do you really think that MDC supports that?  And wasn't the thread or ad (I didn't see it myself) removed?

I'm not seeing what the big deal is.  I made a big mistake at work yesterday.  I'm not beating myself up for it.  I said it was my fault, unintentional as it was, and apologized.  I'm human.  And so are the people that run this place for us.

Many of us have asked for an apology to be posted that is not buried in a locked thread. There has been no response this request. Every time someone asks, they are told that that it has been responded to, but it hasn't. Some people who have pointed this out have had their accounts suspended and/or banned. How this has been handled in the aftermath is just as disappointing and harmful as the fact that it happened in the first place.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by Subhuti 

SSh, with respect, here are my thoughts.  I don't really understand what people are waiting for.  In many threads it was explained that it was an error based on the relationship w/Huddler and had to do with a computer algorythm that assigned the ad/post.  It sounds like the error was not picked up, so it was also human oversight.  

Yes, if it's racist or homophobic -- gross.  But do you really think that MDC supports that?  And wasn't the thread or ad (I didn't see it myself) removed?

I'm not seeing what the big deal is.  I made a big mistake at work yesterday.  I'm not beating myself up for it.  I said it was my fault, unintentional as it was, and apologized.  I'm human.  And so are the people that run this place for us.

It was the poster mothering that started the racist thread.  The focus was a study about how white people believe that they lose when other races advance... that it's a zero sum game. Because of the way google works this thread invited people to post racist comments and gave a place for racist discourse on this site. It was very offensive. You ask if I think MDC supports this. Well they haven't come out with a public apology denying their support of racism or the homophobic discourse of facebook. Deleting threads and then acting as if nothing happened isn't taking responsibility. There was only one thread and advertising relationship that was the responsibility of an outside company. 

If this site wasn't one I had an emotional investment in I would have already left and probably notified MDCs advertisers that they were financially supporting a site that invited racist and homophobic discourse. I've boycotted companies and their advertisers for similar stances. As someone else said it is a big deal. It's a big moral, ethical, and political issue.

(edited for more accurate info on the offending thread)

Edited by ssh - 6/23/11 at 9:37pm

[haleyelianasmom]

My recent encounters  have been pretty horrible here and it is keeping me away.  People either ignore posts or jump in with name-calling and absolutely no support at all.  I would like to think that people can behave like humans to one another in the absence of intense moderation, but this is not proving itself to be true here in my recent experience.

[MsFortune]

Originally Posted by Snapdragon 
"now there are a whole lot of people on MDC who have different views"

 

I feel sad that you think this is a bad thing.  
 

[mamaofthree]

something i have noticed is when people are on line they write/act in ways they would more than likely NOT act IRL. they name call, post hurtful comments, and get pretty nasty. something they might not ever do to your face. it makes me sad. i thought the moderation was a bit over the top there for awhile. i got dinged on some pretty weird stuff. i don't want that back. BUT i miss the over all feel of the sight having more caring members. not people just coming to start some stuff or say nasty things. having been here since 2002, i have weather alot here. i have learned so so much and become a much better parent. 

i haven't been here for a few months, dealing with a new baby and all, but the threads i have popped into.... good lord. one that is being promoted at the top is about "how crunchy are you..." and seemed like it was suppose to be funny, like "you're a redneck if.." and it is like a blood bath. it isn't fun at all like the promo for it says. it got mean and hurtful right off. 

but whatever. if this is what mothering wants, then who am i to say boo about it? 

[Subhuti]

Originally Posted by ssh 

It was the poster mothering that started the racist thread.  The focus was a study about how white people believe that they lose when other races advance... that it's a zero sum game. Because of the way google works this thread invited people to post racist comments and gave a place for racist discourse on this site. It was very offensive. You ask if I think MDC supports this. Well they haven't come out with a public apology denying their support of racism or the homophobic discourse of facebook. Deleting threads and then acting as if nothing happened isn't taking responsibility. There was only one thread and advertising relationship that was the responsibility of an outside company. 

If this site wasn't one I had an emotional investment in I would have already left and probably notified MDCs advertisers that they were financially supporting a site that invited racist and homophobic discourse. I've boycotted companies and their advertisers for similar stances. As someone else said it is a big deal. It's a big moral, ethical, and political issue.

(edited for more accurate info on the offending thread)

I saw an apology from MDC and an explanation.  I think it was on the moderation poll thread.  The admin said it was a computer error.  That felt more than adequate to me, and homophobia in particular is deeply offensive to me because it hits extremely close to home.

I guess I just trust that the admin/mods here are like us -- good intentions and good non-prejudiced values.  

If the acknowledgement wasn't adequate for you and others, and no more is forthcoming -- I guess it's on you now.  You have a choice.  Dissent is typically, in communities like this, expressed through departure.  Or, you could accept the imperfection and stay.

I personally hope people stay, but that's just me.  I think there is still lots of good here.  And all the voices have something to offer.

[Snapdragon]

Originally Posted by MsFortune 

I feel sad that you think this is a bad thing.  
 

I don't! that is not what I was saying. I was just saying that I did not feel that MDC was as supportive and friendly of a place as I had found it to be in the past. I am not saying that I want people to only all have the exact same views. I was just saying that IMO the way it had changed had made it feel less welcoming to me. that's all. I am not going to make a statement saying that I think everyone should agree with my personal belifes or they are wrong! Just that MDC used to feel like a more supportive and friendlier place to me than it does now. Now I feel like there are more people verbally attacking and arguing with eachother. Arguing has its place to a point but it also can be extreme, to the point where sometimes people can come here for helpful advice and support and instead just get people picking them apart and arguing and being unkind. That is what I meant by that.

[haleyelianasmom]

After my most recent encounter, I find MDC to be just plain mean.  perhaps its the annonymity of being able to say whatever you want to people without seeing that they are actually a real person who gets hurt by nasty comments.  Or maybe it just has been over-run by trolls and people who are very self-righteous.  Whatever the case, I am beyond done with MDC.  When I had asked for simple advice on my daughter's nursing and weight issues, they mostly went ignored.  And when I asked for personal advice on dealing with someone frustrating in my life, I had some horribly mean things said to mean and I was scrutinized right down to what groceries I buy, what car I have, where I live, what I studied in school, whether I use day care, etc.  It's sickening and I spent an entire day trying to defend myself and it just made me sick because the rude remarks just kept coming no matter how much I attempted to bring the thread back on topic and explain things better.  I ended my day feeling nauseous witha headache and a day wasted on the cruelty people think they can spew annonymously.  I'm beyond done.  This is disgusting.

[KABB]

I came to this board because of the well known openess of the crunchy/natural living styles of parenting. When I first joined I didn't post much because it felt too cliquey and I felt I really didn't fit in because I wasn't die hard natural living person. As you can see I am a more active poster now and have discovered many people of varying "crunchiness" in my DDC, which is where I post most of the time. Apparently I have missed a lot of the drama, thankfully, and just view MDC as a board with like-minded mothers. Like Lydiah said above, I take what I want and leave the rest. 

[Hoopin' Mama]

OP -

Can you please answer this - wouldn't you rather have a mother come here and say "I spanked, please help me handle these situations in the future" then not search for options and continue to spank?

Because I would think helping would be the gracious thing to do. Or do you want this site to only be for people who have already attained some level of parenting perfection in your opinion?

When I first came here I got my fair share of condescending smug replies. I'm glad I waded through all that BS and received some good advice from some level-headed women. Because not having local friends with babies and coming from an abusive, completely non-NFL, non-AP family, I sure as hell needed it. I"m glad I didn't leave at the first snarky reply I got and just go listen to my Mom who believed newborns need to be left to cry because it's good for them.  

I actually think in some ways MDC was a little meaner back when I joined because people not comepletey on the crunchy spectrum were treated pretty roughly by some people. There was a woman in Family Bed forum who left a long time ago who was downright brutal. 

But there were more level-headed women here to balance that.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by haleyelianasmom 

After my most recent encounter, I find MDC to be just plain mean.  perhaps its the annonymity of being able to say whatever you want to people without seeing that they are actually a real person who gets hurt by nasty comments.  Or maybe it just has been over-run by trolls and people who are very self-righteous.  Whatever the case, I am beyond done with MDC.  When I had asked for simple advice on my daughter's nursing and weight issues, they mostly went ignored.  And when I asked for personal advice on dealing with someone frustrating in my life, I had some horribly mean things said to mean and I was scrutinized right down to what groceries I buy, what car I have, where I live, what I studied in school, whether I use day care, etc.  It's sickening and I spent an entire day trying to defend myself and it just made me sick because the rude remarks just kept coming no matter how much I attempted to bring the thread back on topic and explain things better.  I ended my day feeling nauseous witha headache and a day wasted on the cruelty people think they can spew annonymously.  I'm beyond done.  This is disgusting.

I read that thread and think you should own up to the part you played in that. But you deleted those posts.
 

[IsaFrench]

I read that thread too and think that people who post advice and then express anger that

...the OP is not necessarily doing all that they think she should be doing...

are really moving a step beyond giving advice

it's not because someone asks for advice that they have to apply any/all/every advice that is being offered

anyway the advice has been diverse, OP cannot do everything that has been suggested

OP might not choose to do exactly what has been suggested

OP might choose to "mix and match" what seems most fitting

none of us know the OP in real life, nor all the precise details of the circumstances

just the little that has been published, it is a partial picture to start with

and the decision to take whatever action still lies with OP,

not with the numerous people who gave advice

so I cannot see why the debate got so heated

[tillymonster]

I agree with the vibe being somewhat nasty as the OP has eloquently described. I am a very active member of the KellyMom.com forums and those are highly moderated. However, even if they were not, I wonder what would happen. KM is a pretty small site in comparison to Mothering.com. The ladies there are very respectful and always have an encouraging word. I'm included in this bunch!

One of the first posts I started here on MDC just a few months ago, if even that, is about attachment parenting. I received some horrible responses and some really good ones. Sadly, the horrible ones outweighed the good. I really hope something can be done about it, and if not, I'll still come to this forum but will discuss the real issues and topics with people that I can trust will support me in my parenting style.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by tillymonster 

I agree with the vibe being somewhat nasty as the OP has eloquently described. I am a very active member of the KellyMom.com forums and those are highly moderated. However, even if they were not, I wonder what would happen. KM is a pretty small site in comparison to Mothering.com. The ladies there are very respectful and always have an encouraging word. I'm included in this bunch!

One of the first posts I started here on MDC just a few months ago, if even that, is about attachment parenting. I received some horrible responses and some really good ones. Sadly, the horrible ones outweighed the good. I really hope something can be done about it, and if not, I'll still come to this forum but will discuss the real issues and topics with people that I can trust will support me in my parenting style.

KM is VERY heavily moderated.  Threads get shut down at the mere possibility of debate.  Chit chat seems to be discouraged.  It is a respectful site, but because of the heavy-handed moderation, it's not one that encourages friendships or intellectual conversation IMO.  It's more of a support board than a discussion one.

[pampered_mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhianna813 

I am not a major poster here at MDC, but I do check in daily and post in a few forums regularly. This is what I believe went down recently that has caused lower participation and a weird vibe.

• MDC changed their forum format and some people had major issues with it. The look, feel, features and computer issues too.

I'm late to the game, but that's because I haven't been here very much lately...can't actually remember the last time.  I only came on today to ask about math curriculum choices in the Learning at Home forum.  Then again...I never made it there and have no intention of heading there after I submit my post here.  It's not an issue of moderation for me and I agree with those who have said that the moderation issue is a distraction from the real reason why people have stopped coming.

I haven't had any problems with the new platform as far as bugs or computer issues and I can't say that the problem is the switch to Huddler or the ending of the magazine - though neither of them helped.  It's all part of the switch from "Mothering dot Commune" to "Mothering dot Community."  It began with the Google ads and went downhill from there.  I get it, running an enterprise like this (or a print magazine in this economy) is an expensive proposition.  I don't begrudge Mothering the need for sponsorship and ads, but it's the way in which MDC has gone about it now that is the problem.

If it blinks, moves, distracts, or wraps around the forum in anyway - like for instance the Eggland's Best ad that loaded around the forum when I first logged on today - I won't be back.  Crystal Light...JcPenney...etc...etc.  If I want to read about those I'll read one of the big magazines or listen to the radio.  I subscribed to Mothering and visited here because they were different than that.  Mothering was the "other" with smaller advertisers and other niche type things.  It's why I shop at my small union-shop grocery store, keep my money in a credit union, and subscribe to Mother Jones.  The "commune" part of the former identity that speaks less about profit.  These are the sorts of places I'm willing to be a Supporting Member.  Heck - for awhile I was a Supporting Member here before the Huddler switch.  MDC as it exists today?  Not an organization I want to be a supporting member of.

IME...*this* is the issue.  It's why I don't post here anymore.  Maybe MDC is a victim of it's own success.  Perhaps the growth of the board meant it could never be sustainable.  MDC is changing and I suspect some of it will all shake out in the end, but I suspect this is just the beginning and I don't know as there's a place for me in that future.

[PuppyFluffer]

Yes, I feel this too!
 

Originally Posted by pampered_mom 
 

[jessjgh1]

For me it is more that I've been extremely busy and MDC was my more intimate/private place.  Now I feel resistant to it being so integrated and out there....  I don'.t want  to link up to Facebook here...  I feel like I have less control of how any posts are going to end up .... since they might show up on the MDC facebook page or newsletter.

I adjusted to Facebook and other forum styles, but I guess I still cling to the way the board used to be where it seemed like it's own little niche and network.

I still come on but not like I used to, but I was slowing down anyways.   

I don't like the ads and other minor things.... so just on top of being busy, the little things don't help to get me here more often.

I'm really sad the magazine is gone and others comment on that too  (IRL).  

Jessica

[Geminikidz]

Originally Posted by Snapdragon 

There sure is some weirdness going on here at MDC these days. How I see it- it was this AP "crunchy" board. Some people who don't agree with some of those types of things felt that this board was too rigid. And in general some people feel that some AP parents are too critical. So then people started expressing things that are not AP like for lack of better term. And felt liberated in doing so. But, now there are a whole lot of people on MDC who have different views on things than the original core theory of this forum. And now those things are infiltrating into the whole. But I think it feels unsettling. I understand why some people think people are too rigid. But this has moved beyond that.   I mean- since the whole recent upheavel I now regularly see threads with long discussions involving spanking (such as- I spanked but what should I have done- which to me ( I haven't read that thread just the title) is a very uncomfortable thing to read about. Or threads about locking a toddler in her room at night. Or threads by people acting violently to theri children in some way (at least in the way I perceive it) and personally it makes me sad! I miss the moderation that happened to keep those types of things out. I don't have some conclusive point here. I understand how some peop[le want this to be a more inclusive and less exclusive type of forum. I do plenty of non perfect or whatever things, but I ultimately strive to be as gentle and loving of a parent as I can be, that is all. I mess up and  make mistakes and test limits of where my comfort lies. But I am just a little sad about a certain sense of gentleness and respect for certain peaceful values that I used to find on MDC. Now I feel like people are so concerned with letting everyone have a free voice and their own opionions that there is not as strong of a place here to promote and discuss some of the original core values that brought htis forum together. There are so very many new posters- I have noticed- people with 1,2,3, or 4 posts- writing about things that are sometimes uncomfortable to me- as I mentionmed examples above. And- I don't know. There is somehow not such a coherent welcoming community on here right now as I used to find. I personally would like the old moderating system to return. I felt safer in that type of forum.

 

But, these are people trying to get help and opinions from other people. How else are they going to know what not to do. Some people just aren't as bright as others.

[A_Random_Phrase]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

The thing is, there are more members who disliked the heavy moderation than those who miss it.  We could take a poll, but I am positive this is true.  It's impossible to please everyone, and while the recent changes like format and advertising have not been well received by many, the newfound freedom of not getting in trouble for a difference of opinion has been a positive change, overall.  It just might take a little while to get the kinks out, so to speak, b/c we are all used to a different atmosphere. 

Amen! Exactly why I left many months ago with the intention of never returning. I have been shocked this time around to see posts worse than what I posted that a moderator has not deleted. Tonight, I found out why (reading this thread and another about the new moderation).

[Cynthia Mosher]

If you find a post inappropriate please report it by clicking the red flag at the bottom of the post. We'll take a look. I usually contact a member who has flagged a post that we felt was acceptable to explain why. So if you ever report a post and nothing is done feel free to PM me to ask about it.