Moderation of MDC - What do you think? - Page 6

[springbride]

I have thought all day about how to chime in on this.  I am not one of the old timers by any means, I've been around since a much wiser woman pointed me here when I was pregnant with my daughter in 09.

I had some parenting opinions and ideas, but at the same time MDC certainly shaped a lot of my opinions, parenting styles and choices.  

I have gleaned much from these boards and am thrilled that MDC is here.  

That said, I have been frustrated lately with some threads that are out there.  I have noticed (particularly in the toddler section a few weeks ago) members starting threads seemingly to mock other conversations in other threads.  

Perhaps the level of moderation could relate to how long someone has been a member, how much they have contributed, and how respectful they tend to be?  Or maybe that's making this harder than it needs to be...

Just my thoughts.  

 

[MittensKittens]

Originally Posted by SuburbanHippie 

Would MDC consider having a debate area so this could happen?  Then the rest of the boards could remain rainbows and sunshine support like a lot of older members need.

This is actually a brilliant idea! I like it a lot. This way, we could all have the best of both worlds. 

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by cocoanib 

@lovingmommyhood

Differing opinions is not the issue, or my issue anyways.

It just seems that alot of mainstream ideas are now being pushed around the board. If you say something too crunchy, you may get bashed or questioned to death.

MDC used to be safer for crunchies and you did'nt have to hide or apologize for it, like on mainstream boards.

On this point (and others like it in this thread)...I think the problem is that there really is not only one way to support NFL. Or even one way to be supportive.

In a magazine, you can make that kind of decision: We only publish X articles. People will just not take to heart the ones they don't agree with. But in a community, you will not have One Editorial Voice. And even in a magazine there will be arguing about what stays on a lineup and what doesn't.

As an example, we have had a family bed, extended breastfeeding, babywearing, I'm pretty crunchy when it comes to eating naturally, have a farm share in an organic farm, support gentle discipline, and enjoy reading about things like homeschooling in order to inform my opinions. We don't circ, which is not controversial where I live. I support home birth in principle in the way that it is handled where I life - licensed, well-trained providers that responsibly risk people out. I've done unmedicated vaginal births.

But having lost a child, a lot of the things I read in the birth forums make me cringe. I support parents' right to make decisions, but I also think that there has been some effort to obscure information.

If you look back at my post history you will see that I don't voice those opinions often here, and I always try to do so respectfully. But the fact is that I am not crunchy if crunchy means "you never disagree with anyone who is doing something supposedly natural." (I would argue that seeking experienced support & wisdom in birth and working to save babies & mums as a group is more natural than rejecting that and going off on one's own; it certainly is the foundation of midwifery -- it may in fact be one of the foundations of human tribal behaviour -- but I know that's not the party line in the UC forum.)

The thing is - how do you decide who is "crunchy enough"? If we take it as a given that I support supporting one's body's natural abilities in a natural way, and fostering a good breastfeeding relationship and an attached family, why do I then have to turn off what my brain tells me about taking risks in labour? Believe it or not, it might be the SAME root concern -- healthy, non-damaged children -- that keeps me from using plastic in the microwave - I don't want to add to a small risk of cancer, so why is that view of acceptable risk suddenly not okay in the UC forum?

So...that's why I just found over the years that when threads were being moderated for content, I increasingly felt the message was "don't bring your real self here." As I said my bigger frustrations with the site right now are related to recent other changes, but if the heavy-handed moderation comes back I really am not sure I'll continue to participate. Which might be what the community wants - a much narrower band of members, I don't know.

[Arduinna]

You can't please all of the people all of the time, and sometimes you can't please some of the people any of the time. 

[Maedze]

I have never (I don't believe) posted on the UC forum.  Here's a statement of fact: birth is not about crunch cred.    And yet, in the UC forum, the most ridiculous, false, dangerously foolish misinformation was posted as support or 'fact', and babies suffered and died because of it.

And anyone who dared say, "Wait, no, that is not true" was subjected to nasty-minded moderation and insults from other members and mods.   

I have seen it stated on UC threads, "I don't care if I have a live baby as long as I UC/have a vaginal birth" and other forms of that statement.    This is horrifying.   People SHOULD be able to counteract such nonsense without fear of recrimination. 

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

I have never (I don't believe) posted on the UC forum.  Here's a statement of fact: birth is not about crunch cred.    And yet, in the UC forum, the most ridiculous, false, dangerously foolish misinformation was posted as support or 'fact', and babies suffered and died because of it.

And anyone who dared say, "Wait, no, that is not true" was subjected to nasty-minded moderation and insults from other members and mods.   

I have seen it stated on UC threads, "I don't care if I have a live baby as long as I UC/have a vaginal birth" and other forms of that statement.    This is horrifying.   People SHOULD be able to counteract such nonsense without fear of recrimination. 

((bbm))
 

  That makes me ill. 

[BroodyWoodsgal]

I shudder at the fact that this even needs to be said:

UC mamas do not need some smartbutt, holier than thou, busy bodies coming through and telling them that their birthing choice is dangerous. Who do you women think you are? Angels from heaven who are going to impart some crucial information that somehow never occurred to the mother in question? The whole entire human population outside of MDC and a few teeny tiny corners of the internet/world are  SCREAMING night and day at a UC mama that her choice is selfish, stupid, dangerous and disgusting. Which is why she comes here, to talk about her choice, feel good about her choice and mingle in a relaxing way with other mamas who feel the same way. Not so that you busy bodies can needle your way into her sanctuary and spew your self righteous crap.

"Horrible advice on the UC board has led to a baby dying" - really? Was it your baby? Oh, no, it wasn't?? Then walk on, rubber necker, it's none of you business. I how many times has advice more in line with the mainstream led to horrible complication or newborn death "Yeah, girl, the doctors totally know what they are doing, let them induce you, you are so done being pregnant, give that baby his eviction notice! HAHAHA" - how many times? "Oh, girl, just take the pitocin" "I had cytotec and I was just fine" - MANY more times, "common wisdom" and mainstream thinking has led to complication and death so don't you dare think that just because UC women ---in their striving for gentle, responsible birth on their own terms--- are a huge minority, it gives you the right to talk to them like they are monkeys who never considered that their choice to forgo assistance could, in the end, just like in the hospital, lead to severe complication or death.

Statistically speaking, UC is not more dangerous than HB and statistically speaking, HB is SAFER than birth in the hospital. So keep your ignorant, bossy opinions to yourself. If a UC mama wants to feel stupid and judged she'll go to Thanksgiving dinner, or the grocery store or a doctors office or the playground or taco bell or wherever else in the world there are people with mouths. If she wants to discuss UC in an environment that is supportive of her choice, she'll come to MDC and you will shut your mouth about it because it's not your business or your place to comment negatively.

I will never understand what motivates some of you...how freaking special you must feel, that you honestly believe that in going to the UC board and "reminding those idiots that they are selfish and putting their babies in dangers way" you are helping anyone. The only thing it's doing is helping YOU to feel self satisfied.

Anyway, glad that is off my chest. Sorry for the anger, but I get reaaaaallllly sick and tired of people who feel like they have to stick their noses in on SPIN OFF FORUMS that they don't agree with.

My vote is for a happy medium. The MEGA MODDING from before made me feel such intense rage that I had to take frequent breaks from posting....but the open snarkiness is hard for some people (not me) to manage and I want those darling women to feel safe here, too. So, yeah. I'm "Other"..."Happy medium" and ESPECIALLY for modding "against" this influx of mainstreamness that is plaguing these boards.

I come to these boards because I think all parents should strive for gentle, wise and conscious methods of parenting/being/disciplining. Also because I am a crazy chicken lady who doesn't shave and doesn't have TV and really tries to be mindful about the health of all aspects of our fmaily life. I like hanging around likeminded sorts. I am the "weird lady" on other sites. People on other sites don't relate to me and they call me names and say snarky things about me. I have very deeply held beliefs about parenting and life that sometimes ACTUALLY frighten people on mainstream boards   but which have been kindly accepted and held widely relatable by women on this site. I can't go anywhere else, it makes my eyes bleed to read the words of mothers who CIO, mutilate genitalia "just cause" and feed their kids junk food because they feel like they need more "me time" in the evenings. I'm a parent who thinks about everything as much as I can...I'm trying to give my kids a gentle life, just like I gave them a gentle birth. I'm a high strung, type-A lady who sometimes finds it really difficult not to repeat the unkind, rigid ways in which she was parented and it helps me to come here and get support and wisdom from other ladies. The only reason I can give GD instead of the yelling and spaking that I got as a kid, is because I can stay focused on my parenting goals by staying synched in with mamas here and in my IRL natural parenting group.

The only reason I was able to convince my sister not to circ her son, is because the advice I got here helped me to come at her in the right way....I saved my nephews foreskin....and I couldn't have done it without the BTDT advice of women here. That's amazing. It's just one kid...but that kid will grow into a man with a healthier sex life and sons that HE chooses to leave intact. That's how we change the world, people!! I was so frustrated and tired when I came here for that advice, what if I had been talked to about "It's your sisters choice, don't try to force her, don't judge her, you have to respect her" - would I have been thrown off of my quest to save my nephew from circumcision? I don't know. It can be really hard to AP, it takes so much freaking THOUGHT and I tend to be an over thinker anyway so I get stressed about things and I really beat myself up if I'm not "perfect". You mamas here help me so much to just let go and relax.

That being said, I was a memeber of this site a very very long time ago, long before I had babies, when I was just a young woman trying to come to terms with being a female in these times, but I left because the moderation was so brutal and the mods so completely out of line that I couldn't hack it. When I was pregnant with my first, I knew I had to come back and I did. I got a new name, new outlook and really made a lot of friends here, even some that I had known from when I was initially here. But the sense of community has changed. I see really weird, mainstream things here. A lot of my friends are gone, I don't see them anymore around here. I don't recognize as many faces.

I'm sorry, this is not a place for mainstream mamas to come and voice opinions. You DON'T deserve equal air time and kid gloves if your mantra is "I got spanked and I'm alright" or "CIO mamas deserve respect, too"  "mamas who cir (even though they know it's completely unecessary) deserve respect too) - sorry, no they don't....CIO is child abuse, circ is sexual abuse and genital mutilation. Do people who punch their kids in the face deserve respect for that parenting choice?? Where do we draw the line about which parenting choices we want to hear about? Discussing parenting choices is fine....a woman here posting about her frustration at a family member who uses CIO being snapped at on her own damn thread by someone whose input is "I used CIO and it was fine and you have to respect CIO mamas because we all have a right to parent the way we see fit" - is total and complete BS. At MDC, we draw the line at    -----AP FAMILY VALUES-----

If you are coming here to learn about circ, GD, etc because you realize a choice you made once upon a time about that was wrong, that's amazing, you should be welcomed with open arms and shown love and given the support and knowledge to heal from the trauma against you and you children....but if you have come to this site because you think "babywearing is sooo cuuute! I'm totally crunchy!!"....but you also think circ is awesome and that spanking is acceptable....you need to keep that crap to yourself. There are a thousand places on the internet to go hang out and get support for CIO.....and in all of those thousands of places, I can expect that my views that CIO is abusive will be mocked, shot down and dismissed as "not being respectful of a parenting choice" - the expectation at MDC should NOT be that "ALL PARENTING CHOICES ARE ACCEPTABLE" - because the point of this place is the celebration of "GENTLE, LOVING, CONSCIOUS PARENTING IN THE AP/NFL STYLE" - period.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma 

I'm sorry, this is not a place for mainstream mamas to come and voice opinions. You DON'T deserve equal air time and kid gloves if your mantra is "I got spanked and I'm alright" or "CIO mamas deserve respect, too"  "mamas who cir (even though they know it's completely unecessary) deserve respect too) - sorry, no they don't....CIO is child abuse, circ is sexual abuse and genital mutilation. Do people who punch their kids in the face deserve respect for that parenting choice?? Where do we draw the line about which parenting choices we want to hear about? Discussing parenting choices is fine....a woman here posting about her frustration at a family member who uses CIO being snapped at on her own damn thread by someone whose input is "I used CIO and it was fine and you have to respect CIO mamas because we all have a right to parent the way we see fit" - is total and complete BS. At MDC, we draw the line at    -----AP FAMILY VALUES-----

So....let me get this straight... babies who DIE to UC mothers are none of our business because they're not our babies but babies who are circ'd are your business because that's abuse. 

 Death is fine as long as they didn't have their genitals mutilated...

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood 

So....let me get this straight... babies who DIE to UC mothers are none of our business because they're not our babies but babies who are circ'd are your business because that's abuse. 

 Death is fine as long as they didn't have their genitals mutilated...

No no, you've got it all wrong:

Judging a CIO or Circ'ing mama on a mainstream board is going to get you in trouble, because you're on a mainstream forum.

Expecting support for UC on a mainstream forum is going to get you flamed because you're on a mainstream forum.

Just as:

Judging a UC mama on MDC SHOULD get you in trouble, because you're on an ----> ALTERNATIVE, CRUNCHY, AP, TOTALLY NON-MAINSTREAM FORUM <----- 

Expecting support in any form for CIO, Circ'ing, etc on MDC SHOULD get you flamed because you're on an ----> ALTERNATIVE, CRUNCHY, AP, TOTALLY NON-MAINSTREAM FORUM <----- 

Does that make more sense? Because it should. Would you walk into a building with a sign on it that said "TONIGHT: Meeting for women who want to UC and be supported in that decision" - and sit down in the circle of chairs and look the women in the eye and tell them that their choices were disgusting to you, selfish and dangerous? No, you wouldn't. So why walk into a forum marked just the same and do that?? Ohhhh, that's right, because on the interwebs we can act however we want to, say incredibly insensitive things like "You are putting your baby at risk for dying and you don't care" - to a pregnant woman and then "click" log off and walk away feeling all good about ourselves for "setting someone straight".

If you don't like UC, fine, there are plenty of other forums here to spend time in. If you can't help but to go and rubber neck and shake your head and a send bad energy to these women....babycenter is that way ---> kthx

[mamakay]

Statistically speaking, UC is not more dangerous than HB

We should probably start a spinoff thread, but where are you getting your stats from?

Remember, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. :)

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by MoonWillow 

I think that our current UA probably already encompasses what we need in order to find a happy medium. A lot of what has been happening could be actionable under the "respect" and "comfortable atmosphere" parts of the UA.

Yup.

Originally Posted by tinybutterfly 

Putting on our big girl panties doesn't always mean just sucking it up and taking the hit. Maybe sometimes putting on our big girl panties means acting like a big girl and learning to communicate in a manner that is respectful and courteous.

Amen.

"I was spanked and I'm OK."  Nope, sorry. It wasn't 'OK' when you were hit. Hitting your child is not OK, full stop.  All things are relative, and a spanking simply is not the equivalent of a beating. But it is not OK. It is not right. It is not acceptable to hit your child. 

Sorry, I don't remember who brought this up, but Mama, I get that you aren't advocating violence, and I'm not attacking you.  But it's kind of circular: our thoughts are reflected in our words and our words shape our thoughts.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by mamakay 

We should probably start a spinoff thread, but where are you getting your stats from?

Remember, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. :)

Wondering about this, too.  But I guess I don't belong in the UC forum since I've had c-sections, so if that's where the proof exists, that explains why I didn't realize this statistic. 

[Tjej]

When I first came here I didn't necessarily like the degree of moderation - it felt a bit tight.  However, it did make for intelligent discussion and a positive atmosphere.  It totally cut down on drama.  Lately the lack of moderation has made this board less welcoming and more crazy.  If I want to shoot my mouth off there are plenty of other boards I can go to and do that.  I think MDC is a better place with a much more positive representation of natural family living when it is well moderated.

Tjej

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma 

...

I'm sorry, this is not a place for mainstream mamas to come and voice opinions. You DON'T deserve equal air time and kid gloves if your mantra is "I got spanked and I'm alright" or "CIO mamas deserve respect, too"  "mamas who cir (even though they know it's completely unecessary) deserve respect too) - sorry, no they don't....CIO is child abuse, circ is sexual abuse and genital mutilation. Do people who punch their kids in the face deserve respect for that parenting choice?? Where do we draw the line about which parenting choices we want to hear about? Discussing parenting choices is fine....a woman here posting about her frustration at a family member who uses CIO being snapped at on her own damn thread by someone whose input is "I used CIO and it was fine and you have to respect CIO mamas because we all have a right to parent the way we see fit" - is total and complete BS. At MDC, we draw the line at    -----AP FAMILY VALUES-----

If you are coming here to learn about circ, GD, etc because you realize a choice you made once upon a time about that was wrong, that's amazing, you should be welcomed with open arms and shown love and given the support and knowledge to heal from the trauma against you and you children....but if you have come to this site because you think "babywearing is sooo cuuute! I'm totally crunchy!!"....but you also think circ is awesome and that spanking is acceptable....you need to keep that crap to yourself. There are a thousand places on the internet to go hang out and get support for CIO.....and in all of those thousands of places, I can expect that my views that CIO is abusive will be mocked, shot down and dismissed as "not being respectful of a parenting choice" - the expectation at MDC should NOT be that "ALL PARENTING CHOICES ARE ACCEPTABLE" - because the point of this place is the celebration of "GENTLE, LOVING, CONSCIOUS PARENTING IN THE AP/NFL STYLE" - period.

This is an impressive rant but it doesn't address my core point at all which is:

Why do you get to decide I'm "mainstream" because I bring up risk in UCing conversations? Does being "crunchy mean I have to agree with everyone on the forum at all times?

And again I point out that I don't go in there and harass women who are making that choice.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

If you look back at my post history you will see that I don't voice those opinions often here, and I always try to do so respectfully. But the fact is that I am not crunchy if crunchy means "you never disagree with anyone who is doing something supposedly natural." (I would argue that seeking experienced support & wisdom in birth and working to save babies & mums as a group is more natural than rejecting that and going off on one's own; it certainly is the foundation of midwifery -- it may in fact be one of the foundations of human tribal behaviour -- but I know that's not the party line in the UC forum.)

The thing is - how do you decide who is "crunchy enough"? If we take it as a given that I support supporting one's body's natural abilities in a natural way, and fostering a good breastfeeding relationship and an attached family, why do I then have to turn off what my brain tells me about taking risks in labour? Believe it or not, it might be the SAME root concern -- healthy, non-damaged children -- that keeps me from using plastic in the microwave - I don't want to add to a small risk of cancer, so why is that view of acceptable risk suddenly not okay in the UC forum?

I'd like to respectfully respond to this. I think what gets on the nerves of UCers when anti-UCers come to the UC forum with their "don't UC, it's dangerous" message is precisely what I bolded and italicized: the idea that some stranger, who really has no idea why someone has decided to UC, feels that they need to SAVE the mothers from their own unwise decision, which is incredibly patronizing in itself. Also, I think it's equally patronizing and naive to just think that you can tell someone who has already most likely done a lot of soul searching and preparation for UC that their decision is wrong and expect them to take your opinion into account, especially if you don't have any prior relationship with them and/or say it in an unkind way. As several others have pointed out, there are many, many, many voices saying that UC is dangerous and unwise, and it's really impossible not to be exposed to that opinion. That just makes the patronizing "I'm here to enlighten you that your decision is wrong, because I'm afraid you didn't hear it already and it's my responsibility to save your baby" attitude so much more insulting.

In response to the second bolded part, of course, that makes perfect sense - when it comes to your own choices. When it comes to the choices of others, I feel that it's not anyone else's business whether you feed your kid microwaved food, let them drink nothing but soda, teach them to hunt, let them learn how to drive, let them ride on horseback, let them watch 10 hours of TV a day and never exercise, heck, all kinds of things that increase the chance of an early death. I may not think they are wise or good parents, but that's not my business unless outright abuse is involved. Even if UCing does have a slightly higher rate of death than other HB (which we don't know, btw, because no reliable statistics have been compiled), what makes babies more important than older children that are allowed by their parents to do dangerous things that carry an increased risk of death? I do not ask this to be callous but out of curiosity. I do not believe UCers are UCing out of selfishness or uncaringness but out of the genuine belief that UC is the best, healthiest choice for them and their baby. The best and healthiest choice is not always determined, for everybody, by the relative risk of death, if that risk is felt to be small enough.  
 

Originally Posted by Maedze 

I have seen it stated on UC threads, "I don't care if I have a live baby as long as I UC/have a vaginal birth" and other forms of that statement.    This is horrifying.   People SHOULD be able to counteract such nonsense without fear of recrimination. 

Whoa, whoa. I have been lurking and participating on the UC forums since I joined and I have NEVER heard such a statement, or variation of such, from anybody. Even as a non-UCer I find that an incredibly insulting accusation. Of course, if it's literally true it's appalling, but if it is I missed it. I'd like to see such a thread if you don't mind pointing it out to me.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

And again I point out that I don't go in there and harass women who are making that choice.

And that's all anybody there wants! Thank you! But it seems others find it their duty to do so. The "you" in my response to your previous post was the generic "you", not referring to you particularly.
 

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by ursusarctos 

And that's all anybody there wants! Thank you! But it seems others find it their duty to do so. The "you" in my response to your previous post was the generic "you", not referring to you particularly.
 

Okay, but I have participated in discussions around risk on the general birth board that were deleted or edited to the point of incoherence. I have seen threads about tragic outcomes deleted. The consistent message has been if you don't support the very outer limits of birth, go elsewhere. THAT was the impact on ME of the moderation previously.

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

Wondering about this, too.  But I guess I don't belong in the UC forum since I've had c-sections, so if that's where the proof exists, that explains why I didn't realize this statistic. 

Do you see your tone here, mama? Like I'm really saying that "you don't belong, keep out, stay away, shame on you, you c-section haver!!" - none of those words ever came out of my mouth and, in fact, some of my favorite UC stories of all time have been from mamas who had births end in c/s for WHATEVER reason and who decided in subsequent births that they wanted to UC. I never said that "if you've had a c/s you don't belong in the UC forum" I said....and let me add some spaces so you can see it clearly:

~~~If your intention, upon entering the forum clearly marked "A supportive place for mama who want to UC to come and talk", is to in any way NOT be ".,..supportive...", particularly if your intention is to openly ridicule the womens choices there, you are not welcome, shouldn't be there and a mod should show you the door.~~~

You can go to the UC forum to read and discuss no matter what your background. If you've had no births, ten elective sections, homebirths, whatever...the ONLY criteria in the UC forum, is that you somehow suppress your (apparently unquenchable) thirst for telling other women how to birth and check the attitude and judgement at the door. Period.

As for stats about UC/Homebirth/Hospital safety....I got sick of posting links and charts and studies about that stuff to people like you somewhere around summer of 2008, so excuse me for politely declining your invitation to debate the safety of UC. That's not what we're talking about.

What we're talking about is a Mothers Board on the internet, branded as "crunchy and alternative", with a forum specifically marked as being there SOLELY toSUPPORT women in their decision to UC, in which (on any day of the week) you can go and witness some self righteous fiddlestick of a woman pointing her finger and saying some of the very most bonechilling, judgemental things I've ever seen on this site to women posting in the correct forum with little to no mod intervention. <----- all the while, people just going about their business are being "alerted" and "warned" about comeplete BS 'infractions" of the TOU.

You can think whatever you want about UC, I'm not trying to "win you over" on the merits and safety, I'm telling you if you don't like it, keep your opinions to yourself. There is no need for you to comment on the UC board about UC if your comment is a negative one. Questions, lurking, positive comments...all welcome. Negativity, not so much.

[stik]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma 

I shudder at the fact that this even needs to be said:

UC mamas do not need some smartbutt, holier than thou, busy bodies coming through and telling them that their birthing choice is dangerous. Who do you women think you are? Angels from heaven who are going to impart some crucial information that somehow never occurred to the mother in question? The whole entire human population outside of MDC and a few teeny tiny corners of the internet/world are  SCREAMING night and day at a UC mama that her choice is selfish, stupid, dangerous and disgusting. Which is why she comes here, to talk about her choice, feel good about her choice and mingle in a relaxing way with other mamas who feel the same way. Not so that you busy bodies can needle your way into her sanctuary and spew your self righteous crap.

"Horrible advice on the UC board has led to a baby dying" - really? Was it your baby? Oh, no, it wasn't?? Then walk on, rubber necker, it's none of you business. I how many times has advice more in line with the mainstream led to horrible complication or newborn death "Yeah, girl, the doctors totally know what they are doing, let them induce you, you are so done being pregnant, give that baby his eviction notice! HAHAHA" - how many times? "Oh, girl, just take the pitocin" "I had cytotec and I was just fine" - MANY more times, "common wisdom" and mainstream thinking has led to complication and death so don't you dare think that just because UC women ---in their striving for gentle, responsible birth on their own terms--- are a huge minority, it gives you the right to talk to them like they are monkeys who never considered that their choice to forgo assistance could, in the end, just like in the hospital, lead to severe complication or death.

Statistically speaking, UC is not more dangerous than HB and statistically speaking, HB is SAFER than birth in the hospital. So keep your ignorant, bossy opinions to yourself. If a UC mama wants to feel stupid and judged she'll go to Thanksgiving dinner, or the grocery store or a doctors office or the playground or taco bell or wherever else in the world there are people with mouths. If she wants to discuss UC in an environment that is supportive of her choice, she'll come to MDC and you will shut your mouth about it because it's not your business or your place to comment negatively.

I will never understand what motivates some of you...how freaking special you must feel, that you honestly believe that in going to the UC board and "reminding those idiots that they are selfish and putting their babies in dangers way" you are helping anyone. The only thing it's doing is helping YOU to feel self satisfied.

Anyway, glad that is off my chest. Sorry for the anger, but I get reaaaaallllly sick and tired of people who feel like they have to stick their noses in on SPIN OFF FORUMS that they don't agree with.

Pardon me while I attempt the very difficult multi-quote:

If you don't like UC, fine, there are plenty of other forums here to spend time in. If you can't help but to go and rubber neck and shake your head and a send bad energy to these women....babycenter is that way ---> kthx

Some people try things for themselves despite a lack of a proven safety record in the aggregate.  Some people climb Mount Everest.  Some people UC.  Some people feel that their own unique situation makes a different course of action appropriate than what is generally considered safe for most.  I don't have an issue with that.  (Though I too, Averysmama, would love to see your stats - the most recent published stats on home birth show that it's significantly LESS safe than hospital birth, even for low-risk moms, but I didn't know safety stats on homebirth were available for most countries including the US, and I have never seen stats on UC safety anywhere).

I do have an issue with the UC forum over the past few months, despite it being a place that I generally avoid.  The pattern that I see that concerns me, particularly in the UC forum, though others are not immune, looks like this:

1. Someone asks a questions about a concern affecting her pregnancy.  Maybe she's worried about going overdue, or thinking the baby is breech at term.  Maybe she's concerns about a history of PPH or PIH.  Maybe she's Rh-.  A bunch of people show up to tell her it's fine, because UC is SAFE.  

2. Someone else shows up and disagrees.  

3. Posters from the first group jump all over the person who disagreed for failing to respect birth and violating the sanctity of the forum or whatever.  And then they suggest that, since she's so mainstream, she should go post on babycenter.  

Sometimes we get an extra-special step 4: a mom and/or baby are injured or die and the thread goes poof, creating the impression that everyone who has ever followed the recommendations on MDC has been perfectly and 100% OK, and our world returns to a happy little echo chamber, perhaps with an administrative warning issued to the person who disagreed in step 2.  

I would really like to see this pattern end.  

Sometimes people disagree.  Sometimes people assess risks differently.  If a forum is going to be honest, those voices have to be there.  If someone is going to argue against UC in aggregate, then I agree, the UC forum is not the place for them.  But if posters are respectfully expressing concerns about a particular situation in which a mother is looking for support or advice, they are bringing honest voices to the conversation, and I think they have to be heard.  

The suggestions that people who disagree should post on a more mainstream board are disrespectful and mean, and shouldn't have a place here IMO.  

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by ursusarctos 

I'd like to respectfully respond to this. I think what gets on the nerves of UCers when anti-UCers come to the UC forum with their "don't UC, it's dangerous" message is precisely what I bolded and italicized: the idea that some stranger, who really has no idea why someone has decided to UC, feels that they need to SAVE the mothers from their own unwise decision,

I want to respond to this. In all my years of lurking on the UC forum, I have very rarely seen anyone come on there with a blanket "You people shouldn't UC. Ever!" attitude.

What I have seen is people - midwives sometimes, folks with a lot of knowledge - responding to individual women, individual situations. I've seen these people say, "Hey, with the xyz condition you describe mama, and with your prior history, UC might not be the safest choice for you." Those are the kind of posts that have been yanked. That's the kinds of input that gets shot down by a volley of "Don't listen to the evil medical conspiracy! Trust your instincts, Mama!"

I don't think it's right.