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Moderation of MDC - What do you think? - Page 12  

Poll Results: Moderation of MDC - What do you think?

 
  • 56% (416)
    I think the current minimal moderation is great. It allows members the freedom to express their opinions without fear of their thread being shut down or a warning issued. Discussions of all types should be permitted and the community should be allowed to respond with their opinions unrestricted. I feel there are some situations where heavy moderation may be necessary but these are very few (explain).
  • 27% (204)
    I do not like the minimal moderation and feel that it is leading to problems. To help protect the integrity of the forums and make the community a comfortable place to post we need the moderators to return to their previous moderation approach. They should oversee discussions more and remove things that are mean, snarky, sarcastic, and harassing. They should remove threads and posts that are against Mothering's parenting philosophies. Members who refuse to post appropriately should be moderated and those who persist in such behavior should be warned consistently and, if necessary, their membership removed.
  • 15% (114)
    Other (explain what sort of moderation you think should be in place)
734 Total Votes  
post #221 of 612

This! When this is no more a "like-minded place," to me its purpose ceases to exist. We can disagree on a lot, but the basis of nfl and ap need to be present.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzer Beater View Post


 

People came here to learn and be supported about AP practices... it should stay that way. I think it's okay to have a mission statement, and I think it's okay to uphold it.

post #222 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaskyla View Post


 

 

I'm one of those "older" members, although I'm more of a reader than a poster most of the time. The extreme moderation was awful. I know of several people who stopped coming here because they were tired of being treated like children. I once got a warning, and had my thread deleted, because I started a thread directing people to a post created by a newbie in another thread. The other thread was barely viewed, the new poster was in a desperate situation and I figured I'd try to get some more people to see her post. It was more than a bit frustrating. I actually stopped coming here for about a year after that.

 

 


Present company included on that one! (I remember you btw, Deva, and lots of others on this thread.  :) )  I was actually kicked off for a little while after being targeted for stupid things--for example, once my signature was a few words too long.  Another time I referenced someone else's thread.  Okay.....and...? All this coincidentally when I began to speak out over the addition of advertizements. Eventually my membership was restored, but the damage had been done.  I stayed away until I became pregnant with my daughter, and even then kept mostly within my DDC.  I'm just now again starting to toe the waters here again.

 

Mothering.commune lost a lot of what made it Mothering.commune when the ads came, and with them the more extreme moderation.  Many great members were targeted for speaking out about the ads, deemed trouble makers.  And I'm no conspiracy theorist, aside from myself, I know of at least 4 other members who were either booted or just up and left because of too much behind-the-scenes moderation.  Back then you'd have gotten your figurative butt whooped (or at least spanked) for starting or contributing in this thread.  And heavens forbid you publicly told other members that you were getting warnings or PMs from mods, or even worse, inquired about a banned member.  Anyone else remember that?  Smh...

 

Having said that, GOOD, FAIR moderation is necessary on a large board such as this, but I agree with those suggestions that seem to be just, such as public notifications and keeping threads open, or at least viewable.
 

 

post #223 of 612

I voted for 'more moderation' but I actually find the categories problematic. This statement in the poll:

 

Quote:
They should oversee discussions more and remove things that are mean, snarky, sarcastic, and harassing. They should remove threads and posts that are against Mothering's parenting philosophies. Members who refuse to post appropriately should be moderated and those who persist in such behavior should be warned consistently and, if necessary, their membership removed.

 

is really 3 statements.

 

There are 4 questions here as I see it:

 

1) How does everyone feel about modding on tone? (Snark, sarcasm, etc.)

 

2) How does everyone feel about modding on philosophical issues? (Parenting philosophy, etc.)

 

3) How does everyone feel about modding on isms? (Racism, homophobia, etc.)

 

4) How does everyone feel about modding on membership? (Banning, etc.)

 

My answers:

 

1) Personally, I would prefer minimal moderation on tone. I've seen stuff in the past that really made me shake my head, e.g., moderation for incredibly mild sarcasm, or for inside jokes within a DDC group (which is what drove my DS' DDC off-board.) I think that some gentle snark is fine, and we can draw a line between snark and harassment. I also think it's fine to have frank discussions about sex, etc. especially in TAO.

 

2) I want heavy moderation on this. I consider myself actually fairly middle of the road as a parent (we do plenty of things that are less popular here, e.g., I WOH, my kid watches tv and goes to public school, we vax fully and on schedule, generally consider Western medicine first, etc.) That has never made me feel uncomfortable here, but then, I don't go to the SAH, no-tv, unschooling, no vax, and health & healing forums and expect to have my views supported.

 

On the other hand, I do like having places here that are reasonably safe for me to discuss things surrounding, for example, nursing my nearly 5 year old, cosleeping, considering birth practices that are outside the norm for someone in my health situation, using family cloth, gentler discipline methods, and so on.

 

I expect that's the same for other members who have other things that are important to them, and I think it's important to have places where someone can post a sensitive question without fear that they are going to get blatantly unsupportive responses. Gentle questioning from others who are otherwise philosophically similar is fine, in my view, but not total smackdowns. I've seen posts here from people who are making choices that I would never in a million years make, but I don't consider it my place to comment on those. We are clearly coming at the question from wildly different perspectives and I support their right to make make their own choices.

 

Of course, everyone needs to remember that these boards are public, so it is never fully safe, but there aren't that many places out there to get feedback from others who share one's values on certain practices, and I think it's important to protect the space for that as much as possible within a large, public forum.

 

3) I want very heavy moderation on all the isms. Racism, homophobia, sexism, and so on are toxic to a community, and I want those issues moderated quickly, aggressively, and, most importantly, PUBLICLY so that everyone can see what is unacceptable. I really dislike how threads just disappear when there are issues like this. I think public displays of 'This is totally unacceptable in this community,' are better overall. I find the secrecy on this issue really off-putting.

 

4) I want mixed moderation on this issue. I totally understand that it's simpler to have a numerical threshold here, and we're all human and this is a tough issue, but I'd like to see this issue approached from less of a checkbox perspective, and more of a, 'what does this person bring to our community?' perspective. Having said that, it's a little annoying to see so many posters with post counts in the single digits posting weird stuff. I would like much stronger membership moderation on newer members to at least try to screen out people who are just here to cause trouble, stir the pot, sell something, etc. And perhaps some sort of statement when people join to the effect of, hey, welcome to MDC, this is what we are about. Please spend some time reading the forums before you start posting. (For all I know something like this already exists, I don't know. It's a long time ago for me now, and I lurked for a long time before I joined.)

 

Also, I don't think the moderation is what's changing the character of MDC. It's much more complicated than that, IMHO, and has to do with some of the tactics being tried to make this place support itself, integration with Facebook, etc. And it's completely natural for a community to change over the years. Nothing gold can stay, and all that. But I would like MDC to hang onto at least some of its core, if only so that more parents can learn about practices that, in my opinion, are best for children and families.

post #224 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post




Society has a reason to be involved when people make poor choices that result in preventable injury and death.

 

You sound like the kind of person who supports seatbelt laws.

 

If the baby who dies is your sisters baby..or your good friends baby, etc....yeah, then it's "your business"...but a woman on the internet who you don't know from a hole in the wall? No, that's not your business. Just like if I see my sister giving her son soda and cookies for lunch and watch him get more and more obese while she keeps him in a diet of total crap I have a responsibility to say "The eating habits you are instilling in your child will result in an early death for him" - but it's none of my business if the woman in the check out line next to me is buying her obese child a can of coke and a twizzler because I don't know why that kid is obese. I can guess, but I'm not there every day. I'm not close enough to the situation. I want to scream, hurl, puke at the sight of an overweight baby eating more crap...but it's not my business.

 

You wanna save the world? There are much better places to start than chastising and shaking your finger at women who choose to take their births into their own hands. The list of ways that people are killing children  - quickly AND slowly - is very long. But the point isn't even if you should have the right to step in and harass women who want to birth unassisted...the point is whether or not it's appropriate for you to come into a forum marked ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO WISH TO VOICE SUPPORT FOR UC and start pointing your finger of judgement around.

 

Don't tell me what my attitude is, I never said a thing about "a mothers experience is more important than the outcome of the birth" - who do you think you are, putting those kinds of words into my mouth. I merely stated that a mother who is told "Look, see this here, this is a forum where you can come and be open about your plans to UC without judgement" - should be able to do just that. You want to judge those kinds of women...find another way....the UC forum is supposed to be a safe place for them to be open about their UC views/plans/dreams.

 


Wow.   Yes, I am a person that supports seatbelt laws.  The fact that you clearly intended that to be an insult is making me laugh.  Or, at least it would, if I weren't so absolutely appalled at your callous and self-absorbed words in regards to babies who have suffered and died because of UC.  

Yes, you're absolutely right, I don't believe that your super-duper special experience trumps a baby's right (as I said, I have never posted in the UC forum, or did you just miss that?) to not be put at risk.   I have read the UC forum and seen such horrifying displays of ignorance about basic bodily functions and neglect that I've gasped out loud.    What's making me want to cry is that you aren't even pretending this is anything about your selfish needs to do what you want....suffering and dying babies are just, well, a side effect.  As long as you get your perfect UC birth.  Holy crow.  

 

 

 

post #225 of 612

I can't believe how many people don't use an adblocker. Other than the reviews on the side, I haven't seen an ad on here. I know they exist because of all the complaints but it's much less cluttered in my world.

post #226 of 612

Oh, as far as Avery'smama being rude, well, yes, she was, but I've been around the block a few times and can handle a little rudeness.  It doesn't phase me.  Plus, she's so obviously off the reservation that she could probably tell me to go to do something anatomically impossible to myself and I wouldn't do much more than blink and ask for a diagram.     As someone who doesn't need heavy-handed moderation, I'm perfectly comfortable looking past the rudeness, to the actual content of her words, which is far, far more disturbing than her rude language. 

post #227 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

I can't believe how many people don't use an adblocker. Other than the reviews on the side, I haven't seen an ad on here. I know they exist because of all the complaints but it's much less cluttered in my world.



I'm curious, what kind of ad-blocker do you use?  I'm running chrome, and DH has some sort of ad-blocker on the computer, thus I never see ads or pop-ups anywhere else but here.  But these pages are so unbelievably slow my page runs nearly like it's on DSL.  Or even, *gasps in horror*  dial-up

post #228 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post




Can you link me to the thread you posted that to? I've searched all of your posts and cannot find a post that was removed. 

 



http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=15911742

post #229 of 612
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the link. That thread and your post was placed back in early October 2010 - almost nine months ago. Moderation changes we're discussing here were not in place at the time.

post #230 of 612

I don't mind the ads.  I thought the Oscar Meyer lunchmeat one in the vegetarian forum was hilarious, not in an entirely good way, but that got sorted out and MDC has to support itself some way.  Running this site isn't free.

 

The problem with moderation is that it should be based on value judgments.  Not blanket rules.  MDC tried to create blanket rules, which meant that people felt muddled.  "Taking issue."  What does that even mean?  Of course if someone launches into a personal attack filled with inappropriate language, that should be removed.  It serves no purpose and brings down the whole tone of the board.  When someone is refusing to take their limp, not-feeding infant with a fever of 106 to the hospital because they're afraid of antibiotics, the correct answer should be "how f-ing stupid are you?"  Not allowing any dissent whatsoever was extremely aggravating, because sometimes there ARE stupid people doing stupid things who should be called out.

 

It made it really impossible to hang out here or offer real advice to people who needed it most.

 

Racist, homophobic, bigoted remarks need to be removed immediately.  Especially from Facebook, which is free advertising for your site.  You need to think of it that way.  It is not an extension of your site, it is advertising for your site.  There can't be anything up there that reflects poorly on your site.  And why on earth would you try to start a discussion about whether the black man is keeping the white man down as an advertisement for a website about taking care of children?  That entire incident was so incredibly mind boggling in its utter ignorance about the internet, your readership, and how to maintain a facebook page.

 

You can't just allow this site to be a free for all.  It's too big, and there are too many deeply ignorant people.  At the same time, expecting people to feel helpless as they watch a bad situation go down or drag on for years and years isn't going to work either.

post #231 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

I can't believe how many people don't use an adblocker. Other than the reviews on the side, I haven't seen an ad on here. I know they exist because of all the complaints but it's much less cluttered in my world.



Word! We always use an ad-block. The internet as a whole is ridiculous without one!

post #232 of 612

I voted for more moderation.  One of the many things I loved about MDC was the lack of cursing/graphic stuff.  Now, at times, with my friends and my husband, I curse like a sailor.  But in a public forum, I don't want to use or read a bunch of crass language.  Especially not on a site that a go to primarily in my mode as a parent.  More and more I am seeing more aggressive, vulgar language.

 

For example, there is this thread, that has been in single parenting for a few days.  It looks as if a mod even posted.  A new member posted a genuine question and was bashed, really without any evidence beyond her very low post count, for being a "troll."  The language in this is just gross to me.  

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317712/should-i-have-sex-with-my-ex-advice-please/40

 

I just flagged it.  I hope that the thread is removed or heavily edited.  

 

Is vulgar discussion of sexuality now OK on MDC unless someone objects?

 

Thank you.

post #233 of 612

I voted "other".

 

I didn't like the heavy moderation in the past. I left MDC for a month after newly joining when I was a new mama, because one of my posts had been removed and I issued a warning over what I believe was a misunderstanding of what I was trying to say. I felt invaded and offended, mainly because what I was being accused of wasn't accurate (ie my post had been misunderstood and I given no chance to explain what I meant and/or edit it before it was removed). I wondered whether I wasn't joining a dictator-like community where "they" were controlling and heavily censoring everything we said. To go back to this way of moderating would keep many, many people away and if the goal is to attract new users well, then the heavy censorship has to be gone for good.

 

However, there are limits. It goes without saying that things like recommending spanking are not tolerated here. Furthermore, I think we should still and always exclude recommendations of harsh sleep training methods (CIO). Formula feeding and cesareans are two grey areas, but I think there should be some limits. The focus should stay on natural birth and breastfeeding and doing everything to promote these. However as we all know, some of us end up with c sections and formula feeding despite every intention and effort to the contrary. As it has been and is now, we should be able to discuss these things, however I feel there should be limits. For example, posts recommending and praising elective (non-medically necessary) cesareans and formula feeding by choice (when BFing would have worked) as well as circumcision, do not really fit into the Mothering Ethos is you ask me. If we allow this, it's only one step away from opening a formula feeding forum and before you know it half of the mamas at MDC have no interest in Natural Family Living. That's just the direction it will go if there are no limits whatsoever.

 

I would be really sad and probably leave after some time if Mothering became just like every other parenting forum out there. What would be the point of coming here then? The entire rest of the world and internet, it seems, are there to support parents who choose to have a cesarean, formula feed, sleep train, and circumcise. We don't need more of that. Isn't Mothering about offering support and encouragement to those of us who are doing things differently?

 

I really hope MDC doesn't sell out and decide to let any and every comment go unchecked in the future. I can say with certainty if the moderating becomes even less, that it will only be a matter of time before MDC has little to do with Natural Family Living.

post #234 of 612

I just have to add, there seems to be a lot of free-wheeling anti-MDC stuff being posted.  There needs to be room, in this q and a, for people to express objections for others to see and discuss.  That is good.  But all this MDC anger spilling into other threads?  I don't want to read that either.  A few people are creating an atmosphere that is very disharmonious for the rest of us.  If this grows, that is something that would keep me away from MDC.  Who wants to read about a bunch of in=fighting.  


If you've got a beef with MDC, post it in q and a or PM a mod.  Otherwise, please keep it out of the other threads.

 

 The people calling the OP in the single parenting thread "a troll" seem much more like trolls to me.  They stir up trouble for really no good obvious reason.

post #235 of 612

The idea that what is currently going on is "minimal moderation" is silly.  It is much better that the previous "thought police" moderation that occurred, but it is definitely not minimal moderation.  I would prefer going towards even less moderation than what is currently in place.

post #236 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post


You sound like the kind of person who supports seatbelt laws.

 


When people set themselves up to become human projectiles that may injure me or my family, it's my business.

 

post #237 of 612


i didn't vote for more moderation, because i have very mixed feelings.  however, i really like the way ~pi has broken down the core issues below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~pi View Post

 

 

 

 

 

There are 4 questions here as I see it:

 

1) How does everyone feel about modding on tone? (Snark, sarcasm, etc.)

 

2) How does everyone feel about modding on philosophical issues? (Parenting philosophy, etc.)

 

3) How does everyone feel about modding on isms? (Racism, homophobia, etc.)

 

4) How does everyone feel about modding on membership? (Banning, etc.)

 


i like this, but my responses are different. 

 

i think that language and tone and snark, etc.  are things that have been overly moderated in the past.  sometimes it IS actually helpful to have discussions and back-and-forth, and that wasn't allowed before.  i personally have no issues with cursing, etc.  but i guess since that's not how everyone feels, perhaps posters should try to agree to curb the cursing, as it isn't really fair to people to whom it is uncomfortable. 

 

i do think people who post racist, homophobic, etc. things ought to get a warning and then get booted.  it's not ok to be a racist on mdc.  some stuff just should not be tolerated.  period. 

 

i think that posters and members can self regulate.  people can explain why stuff isn't appropriate for this forum, etc.  however, i do notice that even so, it detracts from the thread to have tangents all over the place while people are battling that out with sideways dramas.. and the original questions don't get answered and the threads get derailed into personally disagreements.  maybe provide a vent it out forum for this kind of thing to take place?  a derailed thread forum?  maybe instead of more moderation just giving people a space to take it outside, ya know?

 

in my opinion, though, what's going so wrong with mdc now has little to do with the moderation.  i almost left and didn't come back because of the leading questions and the polls that were posted by mothering.com that were really designed to stir up conflict.  the ones about so called welfare mothers and the 'is gender neutral parenting bad' kinds of things.  i sincerely do NOT appreciate that kind of bs here, and feel like those kinds of questions, especially since they are started by mothering, do NOT promote AP or natural family living or anything other than infighting.  Please, no matter what else happens, please please stop doing that. 

 

 

 

post #238 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy View Post


Present company included on that one! (I remember you btw, Deva, and lots of others on this thread.  :) )  I was actually kicked off for a little while after being targeted for stupid things--for example, once my signature was a few words too long.  Another time I referenced someone else's thread.  Okay.....and...? All this coincidentally when I began to speak out over the addition of advertizements. Eventually my membership was restored, but the damage had been done.  I stayed away until I became pregnant with my daughter, and even then kept mostly within my DDC.  I'm just now again starting to toe the waters here again.

 

Mothering.commune lost a lot of what made it Mothering.commune when the ads came, and with them the more extreme moderation.  Many great members were targeted for speaking out about the ads, deemed trouble makers.  And I'm no conspiracy theorist, aside from myself, I know of at least 4 other members who were either booted or just up and left because of too much behind-the-scenes moderation.  Back then you'd have gotten your figurative butt whooped (or at least spanked) for starting or contributing in this thread.  And heavens forbid you publicly told other members that you were getting warnings or PMs from mods, or even worse, inquired about a banned member.  Anyone else remember that?  Smh...

 

Having said that, GOOD, FAIR moderation is necessary on a large board such as this, but I agree with those suggestions that seem to be just, such as public notifications and keeping threads open, or at least viewable.
 

 

I can't support this post enough.  I totally agree.  MDC is driving away those who really were the cornerstone of the forums for years and years.  It is sad to see such wisdom lost because MDC is after advertisers rather than people... people I came to call "friend" if only through electronic media.  Some I even met... half way across the world.  This place is no longer a safe-haven for like-minded people.

 

I hated the over-moderation, but the lack of AP and NFL here has really turned me off.  I got in trouble for using the term "devil incarnate" in the over-moderation period... and my hands were slapped by a bible-thumping mod (as if that doesn't scream unfairness!)  Now people can call each other jackasses and nobody cares.  There has to be a happy-medium.

 

If it wasn't for a few people that are still here that I REALLY enjoy reading... and those people are getting fewer and fewer because your "dedicated" membership is done with the ridiculousness here at MDC... I would be gone, gone, gone, myself.  I was here BEFORE the new forum started up in November of 2001.  I joined the "new" MDC soon after my babymoon with my dd.  I am very, very upset and disgruntled with the way things have changed around here.  And I can't help but feel it's all about the almighty DOLLAR.  MDC has prostituted itself and it makes me very sad.  In a way I'm glad the magazine is gone because I would have canceled my !!12 YEAR!! subscription anyway.

 

 

post #239 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post

The problem with moderation is that it should be based on value judgments.  Not blanket rules.  MDC tried to create blanket rules, which meant that people felt muddled.

Yes, 100%. The no namecalling rule meant you couldn't call a fellow member a jerk, but you also couldn't call the guy you cut you off in traffic this morning a jerk either. I'm all for a more realistic, flexible mod style; but this is subjective and y'all need to be ok with that. If I ask you to edit out "jerkface", I don't want to spend hours in PMs back and forth explaining that yeah, jerkface is over the line.

Same with removing threads/posts. We do that for a couple of reasons (in my view, anyway):

1) Member privacy. We don't want to display to everybody that we're asking you to reign it back in. Considering how upset many people are about gentle reminders they recieved months or even years ago, I think that was the right move.
2) Clean-up time. It takes a long time to PM folks to edit their posts, etc. I have a full-time job and can't invest that time. If we leave up a trainwreck, sure-shootin' someone is going to complain when I ask them to edit out jerkface because we let it go on the locked thread.

For all the "spankings" members say that have received, I guarantee you that mods got it handed right back to 'em, and the poor Admins most of all. If there's nothing else we take away from this long thread, it's that moderating and keeping the community going is not that easy or cut&dry.

Again, IMNSHO, not representative of other mods, Mothering, etc.
post #240 of 612

I voted other

 

I believe that the level of moderation should lie somewhere in between what it currently is. The overly strict rules that used to prevail were at times ridiculous and I had a few warnings that were baseless imo. It seemed as if you couldn't express your opinion, even politely, because the mere fact that it was different from anothers would offend someone. But the looser rules, IMO, have contributed to a MDC that I don't even recognize anymore. Some threads seem to deteriorate into high school bickering contests that make my stomach turn. I'm actually suprised at the level of visciousness that has been permitted to go on and on until enough complaints are loged that the thread is closed.This seems to happen on boards where there is a distinct divide in parenting approaches (vaccines - AP ect). I think people in general are able and should be able to express thier opinions freely but respectfully.

I think there is a happy medium to be found with regards to the level of moderation on this board.

 

Some other mainstream boards are frankly disgusting and viscious and this is not only allowed but encouraged. The folks that seem to enjoy that type of debate can go there and leave MDC to remain a safe place where people can feel that they can express themselves without being made to feel like crap.

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