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Poll Results: Moderation of MDC - What do you think?

 
  • 56% (416)
    I think the current minimal moderation is great. It allows members the freedom to express their opinions without fear of their thread being shut down or a warning issued. Discussions of all types should be permitted and the community should be allowed to respond with their opinions unrestricted. I feel there are some situations where heavy moderation may be necessary but these are very few (explain).
  • 27% (204)
    I do not like the minimal moderation and feel that it is leading to problems. To help protect the integrity of the forums and make the community a comfortable place to post we need the moderators to return to their previous moderation approach. They should oversee discussions more and remove things that are mean, snarky, sarcastic, and harassing. They should remove threads and posts that are against Mothering's parenting philosophies. Members who refuse to post appropriately should be moderated and those who persist in such behavior should be warned consistently and, if necessary, their membership removed.
  • 15% (114)
    Other (explain what sort of moderation you think should be in place)
734 Total Votes  
post #361 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post

I had to go away for a few days b/c the negativity was wearing me down.  I am on another board (not a parenting one) and apparently they had a very similar drama a few months ago, and the way they handled it was by posting a thread in their version of TAO that said this:

 

-We (the mods) are human volunteers.  We are not "The Man."

-Our #1 rule is to be nice to each other.  Unkindness will be modded away.

-Trolling happens.  We'll mod it away.

 

They let this thread go on for about a 100 pages and then they closed it.

 

I voted that there needs to be a balance between the old over-moderation and the current free-for-all.  I think the #1 rule of any UA should be "Be kind."  The #2 rule should be "Own your $hit.  Discussion of a topic that upsets you should probably be avoided."

 

[Finally, I don't have any technical problems with the board at all.  I like it and it is quick for me.  I also don't see any ads so I can't comment there.]




I think discussing topics that upset you is one of the best ways to work through those things, come to new conclusions, perhaps come to consensus. Passion and movement for positive change often comes from a place of upset/hurt and avoiding those topics could stunt that positive change.

 

I agree, but only if you are ready to deal with it from a place of honesty and openness and willingness.  That is a rare place that requires a lot of courage.

 

post #362 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkvosu View Post

Like I mentioned up thread quite aways, I'm a newbie, so maybe I would feel differently if I had been around here a long while. But, having said that, I honestly feel like the mods, administrators or whoever runs this place should just do what they feel is right in regards to moderation, the UA, and whatever else governs the board. Clearly, trying to have a discussion with the 1000's of users on this site isn't exactly efficient or really even helpful (at least so far as I can tell). Sure, there are plenty of reasonable members who just want to post and get/give helpful information, but that tends to get lost in all the drama. Basically, you (the mods) are going to piss people off no matter what you do. I see a lot of complaining, or maybe even threatening, that if you do xyz then, GASP, the old timers will leave this site. I guess to that I say, so be it. Not that I want people to leave, but if they are really that unhappy then they should. It's not the mods/admins job to coddle and appease everyone who doesn't like the new way of doing things. 

 

Dh and I run a service based business with hundreds of members (not 1000's like MDC, I can't even imagine the headaches!). We learned, after years of trial and error, that we'll never please everyone all the time. We have had to settle with pleasing some of them some of the time! We have occasionally had to raise our prices (in order to make ends meet at the business AND feed ourselves, not out of greed) and we are continuously tweeking things as we learn. You know what, just about everytime we change anything, the vocal minority starts ranting and raving about how we've sold out and this will be the death uf our business. Well, seven years later, we're stronger than ever.

 

I suspect that this won't be a popular post, so flame me if you will, but I stand by it.  

 

I guess I should add that I like the uber-crunchy vibe here.  I also like the civility that is, for most part, commonplace here.  I would be sad if that if that changed, But, life goes on.


I think you make excellent points.  Some people will always find something to complain about.  Some people will always be Cassandras.  The nice thing about MDC is, no one can force you to post here!

 

post #363 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

I think MDC needs to add to their UA that you won't be able to discuss/debate anything that has been posted/printed previously if you disagree with the side the Mothering promoted.



Goodness MD I hope that you are saying that tongue in cheek.  I can't tell.  Because that sort of McCarthyism would not be cool at all.  And a bit ironic in light of the magazine's demise.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

When it's Trolls trying to wreck havoc just because they want to take advantage of a tense discussion atmosphere about other issues - yes, I will stop their threads. We're not going to have discussions for their dramatic purposes under their pretenses.


But not all the threads that have been deleted have been for this purpose.  Was Holly Bear's Mom a troll?  Was Ornery a troll? No, I don't think so...HBM had been a member here for like ten years.  Plus she was banned without a warning from what I understand. As were other members that I had come to enjoy and respect as part of this community.  Whose voices I will miss.

 

I know that this discussion is now back to talking about moderation but I simply cannot get past my shock and disgust of the above.  I am really thinking that this community is no longer for me. gloomy.gif

 

For the record I think I try very hard to keep a respectful tone in all the discussions in which I participate here...but I still feel free to disagree and be controversial where needed. As I should.  I think having/allowing both show a basic amount of respect for all the people who post here.  And frankly I am more interested in showing individual people respect than I am about showing mothering-the-organization respect.

 

Mothering apparently has that equation backwards.  I am not cool with that.

 

ETA:  I have requested that mothering cancel my membership so I will not be back.  I will miss many of you, but I really don't feel I can be affiliated with this organization any longer.

 

Stacy

 


Edited by Chamomile Girl - 6/18/11 at 8:32am
post #364 of 612

I voted "Other."

 

I did not like how restrictive the old UA and points system became. It was far too detailed and punitive and didn't leave a lot of room for interpretation and as a moderator that was often frustrating, although I did my best to find my way within that system.

 

That said, I am not impressed with how things are unfolding now. In a community of this size moderators need to have the ability to step in when things get out of hand. I found working with the UA was easier before the automated alert system came into effect because it was much easier to use my own judgement in a questionable situation and there was far less backlash from members.

 

As for the TWWS site, I have read over there and I take much of what they say with a large grain of salt. Some of the concerns are valid but there is a small but vocal group who are simply out to cause trouble. I have seen many instances where they conveniently delete parts of a story or PM exchange so that they look calm and reasonable and MDC staff look controlling and ridiculous. I do not respect that kind of behaviour. Discussing the issues at hand is one thing but deceit and seeking and causing drama for its own sake is something I don't have patience with from junior high aged kids, let alone other adults. I would hope that when things calm down a bit we can have some important and necessary conversations about topics of concern here but I don't see that happening right now with all the tension flying around.

 

Nothing will make everyone happy. I have been an active member here since 1998 and there have always been ups and downs and people who cry that they sky is falling every time a significant change is made. I hope that we can find a workable middle way between the old system and what we are trying now.

post #365 of 612


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerynna View Post

I'm a little confused.  I only have a few posts, and at first, I could post without any problem.  I made a post in the Welcome forum, the Gentle Discipline forum and the Family Safety forum.  Then later, when I tried to reply to a thread in the Gentle Discipline forum, I got a message saying something like, "Because you are new, your posts are being held for review".  I didn't receive anything like that message when I posted replies before ...? 

 

Is it the practice here to review every post made by new members before they show up on the board, and maybe my first few posts somehow got in under the radar?



My post above seems to have gotten lost in the thread.  Can someone clarify the policy on moderating new members posts, please?  

post #366 of 612
I really want to thank people who have taken part in this discusion. I think it's been eye opening. I truly appreciate the fact that even in anger, many people have expressed themselves strongly but respectfully. I hope this will help to move MDC towards something good that will benefit us all.
post #367 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerynna View Post


 



My post above seems to have gotten lost in the thread.  Can someone clarify the policy on moderating new members posts, please?  


You might want to try pming the moderator of GD which is heartmama maybe they are moderating posts from new members in there since some people have said there have be pro hitting posts? Not sure. The mod will know though. 

 

 

 

post #368 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerynna View Post


 



My post above seems to have gotten lost in the thread.  Can someone clarify the policy on moderating new members posts, please?  


It was probably defensio. It's an automatic part of the system that occasionally just labels new members as spammers. sigh. I'll go check out what's gong on there.
post #369 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerynna View Post


 



My post above seems to have gotten lost in the thread.  Can someone clarify the policy on moderating new members posts, please?  


Should be fixed now. Sorry about that!
post #370 of 612

Thank you! 

post #371 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerynna View Post


 



My post above seems to have gotten lost in the thread.  Can someone clarify the policy on moderating new members posts, please?  


Never mind-- QotM fixed it. orngbiggrin.gif
post #372 of 612

That's because I was cleaning up the thread, new "low moderation" be damned.  I did not know that Cynthia had used the thread as an example as what not to say, so that's where the confusion came in.  I deleted the offensive comments and side-conversation and then everyone clicked on it and saw a thread that wasn't all that badredface.gif.  I really don't know what the intention is for that thread and I hope it gets cleaned back up and not used as an example for very long. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanyalynn View Post




 

When I read the thread earlier this morning, it was much shorter and it now looks like posts were missing.  Now the thread is almost twice as long (and not just with this afternoon's posts). 



 

post #373 of 612

you know, now that i think about it, moderation is a great idea for this db if for no other reason than keeping threads on topic.  it's almost impossible to make sense of this one, for example. 

 

also, i have been reading about the pat robertson thing, and i absolutely, whole-heartedly agree that mdc does owe everyone who participates as a member a formal apology.  i am glad to see that the process for approving the advertising posts has changed, but honestly: i don't know what you expected to happen otherwise.  i'm pretty insulted.  i understand how the problem occurred, but i do think mdc needs to own it, and make a public statement disavowing this awful group. 

i'm not leaving mdc just yet, but that incident, the bannings, and those polls designed to stir up controversy don't sit well with me.  i'm not interested in debate and shouting, and i initially enjoyed mdc because i found it to be a great and supportive environment.  i've learned alot from the mamas here, including the ones who have voluntarily left and those who have been banned.  i think mdc needs to fix this.  and soon.

post #374 of 612

the old moderation did sometimes get excessive, but i would take it over what's going on now in a heartbeat. i don't come to MDC because i want to be criticized for my birthing or parenting choices, i came here for comradery with like-minded people. if i wanted to hear how dangerous homebirth is or how formula is just as good ask breastmilk, i'd go talk about it to any number of people i know irl or join a more mainstream board. i don't go do those things on regular basis because i'd rather enjoy the company of those who can at least see where i am coming from, even if we don't totally agree. but now all those people i chose not to bother with are coming here, and it's kind of lame.

 

It's not that I always agree with the posters here, far from it, but I had the decency to avoid the boards and threads that talked about stuff that I didn't agree with. Now we have  "discussion" threads started by people with an axe to grind that are really thinly vailed attempts to scare or rally against a topic. how is that okay? if I went on mainstream boards and blasted people for scheduling c/s or inducing labor because their OB told them their baby would be too big, how would that go over? why is the reverse okay here? 

 

I realize that I am often in the fringe on many topics and I spend enough time arguing with people with whom it is unavoidable. It was avoidable here, and that was pretty nice. greensad.gif

post #375 of 612

I've been a member here for a while and here's my opinion.  In the beginning, when I came here I came to MDC to ask questions and learn about things that were not mainstream and to have my questions answered respectfully and intelligently.  Sometimes, I got slapped on the wrist for questioning too much and I really didn't like that part of it.  I def. feel that it was way overmoderated in the past.  I am an adult and I can stand up for what I believe is right, I can defend my position on various hot topics and feel that is a necessary part of the learning process. I think the current moderation is OK.  I don't like all the new posters, maybe trolls, just trying to irk someone or ruffle our feathers.  I believe in what MDC stands for, AP and natural mothering. I do think that our beliefs and stances should be able to stand up to defense, if not then we ought to question ourselves and look deeper for the truth.  For me, though I've been coming to MDC less and less lately and it's not the moderation.  It's the over-commercialization of the site, that fact that it takes forever to load pages, the miles of advertisements, and the cluttered pagefronts.  I really really miss the magazine as well.  I wanted to give two new mamas a subscription this year for their showers and wasn't able to.  The magazine was so much better than the internet.  You could hold it in your lap with a nursing baby in the half-dark and learn (that's what I did).  I wasn't able to get online much when my dd was a baby, right when I needed to learn more.  If the magazine was ever brought back, I do wish it had more about older kids too, something that was starting to bother me, every issue seemed to the baby issue.  MDC is about empowering mothers to be their best and to parent in a natural, loving way.  How is commercializing "Mothering" a part of that?  It's so iroinic here where so many MDC members seek to limit their exposure to commercialization and advertising. 

post #376 of 612

I have been on these boards for a while, and my biggest issue isn't really with the moderation. It is with the board culture. There is constantly dangerous advice being bandied about here. I originally came here because I was researching something, and noticed something dangerous was being advised and couldn't live with myself if I didn't mention it.

 

Since then, I have held back a lot of times when something is not the best idea ever, but not really that dangerous. But, I am sorry. If someone posts something that makes me think that they or their children are in real danger, I'm going to say something. If someone posts something that is just plain wrong and is leading people to make decisions about health or safety based on wrong information, I am going to say something. If someone is putting their ideals about NFL above the reality of their situation - and it is causing their family real harm, I am going to say something.

 

Likewise, if someone is struggling with a situation where their ideals are being challenged and they need validation that doing right by their children isn't going to cost them their crunch cred, I'm going to say something. Or if someone wants assurances that even if they don't check off every AP/NFL item off "the list" that their children can still be happy, health, and well adjusted - I'll post to support them.

 

People have a lot of pent up frustrations with the board culture right now. That board culture, which in many ways trickles down from the Admins and Mods, has permitted the board to seemingly be taken over by zealots. Not all the subforums, for sure. But I think the activism and single focus subforms breed zealotry and are the root cause of a lot of the unhappiness for everyone. I think creating these "Support" subforums, like I'm Not Vaccinating, or Unassisted Childbirth is a really IMO stupid and dangerous idea. UC should be discussed in the regular homebirth subforum. It should not be a support only subforum. People considering UC should be exposed to the ideas and concerns of non-UCers and vice versa. Same thing with vaccinations. Why should non-vax have a special area of the board where their ideas and evidence aren't supposed to be challenged? People are making life and death decisions about the health and safety of their families. If something needs challenging, it needs challenging. We should be able to have respectful discussions that including pointing out that people are taking huge, and probably unnecessary risks.

 

 

post #377 of 612

As a quiet member of both communities, here since 2007 and TWWS since 2010... I can say that a lot of people have it wrong about there. I am not a snarker or a mean spirited person. I have things I feel passionate about, but in general I am here and there to build relationships on not focus on the things we disagree about. However, I really feel that TWWS is getting thrown under the bus here. I think that if you just are (or in the last month) visiting TWWS for the first time you aren't getting a clear view of what that place is really like, especially if you only visit the MDC related forum. People are angry about things and since they are still getting their voices stifled here they are venting and expressing themselves their. Very normal and healthy thing to do IMO.

 

A lot of members, like HBM, are getting their feelings and concerns dismissed because they are perceived as  being a Troll and "trying to wreck havoc" when if fact it is the other way. I mean you can check the date when a member joined both places and a lot the new members are joining TWWS because of how they are being treated here. Not the other way around. I am only speaking up on this now because I feel bad for members being band for being "trolls" when in fact they got banned then joined TWWS. And as  another member said in another post. You can be a member there and still be invested in the well being on MDC. I am.

 

I voted for less moderation. I am a naturally minded mom and very open to other views on things, but feel like the "our way or the highway" thing really caused a lot of problems. Debate is healthy, it only makes me stronger in my own convictions or more educated on the other side of things. And I will own up when I get things wrong.

 

Edited to add: That I started posting less on this board when my posts in the Pelvic Organ Prolapse Board started getting deleted or moderated because I decided that what was best for me was having surgery to correct it... that is not the view supported on that "support" thread.  And people wondering if surgery was an option for them don't get to read my positive experience with surgery. And nor do they get the vast knowledge I've learned from seeing two urogynocology specialists, a gynocologist and 2 physical therapist who support the pelvic floor. I now post at Hystersisters forum to get share experiences and learn more science based information about pelvic floor issues.

post #378 of 612
Mothering has a staff and other expenses, and the staff and other expenses have to be paid, so money has to be generated in one way or another. There is a way to financially contribute and not get ads, but without sources of income, there is no MDC. I don't see how they can do away with the ads and remain in business. I see them as an unpleasant necessity.
post #379 of 612

 

Quote:
But the fact was that if we say "namecalling" is not permitted then the application of it gets murky if it is not across the board. Name-calling is namecalling - right? So if namecalling is not allowed it's not allowed at all. Maybe our mistake was that we didn't define it further? Like "well, you can't namecall an actual person but you can a fictitious person." It gets really stupid and we thought we could just ask people to not post in that manner at all and address actions rather than use namecalling. I'm being facetious, of course, about whether we should have defined it better. Just explaining how it came to be and how it was probably applied as you say it was. And that is likely one of the most overboard and silly rules we ever had.

 

Thanks for this explanation, Cynthia.  Yes, by golly, overboard it was. 

 

I've been restraining myself from adding my "Hey, yeah, what she said!"  to the chorus of "Look at what the mods did to me more than a year ago!!"  BUT, I was alerted that my post had been deleted, on my birthday no less! irked.gif eyesroll.gif wink1.gif for using  the terms talking heads & working-schlubs.  Because those are hurtful terms, and come across as insulting and inflammatory (intentional or not).  Even though it was in general terms, not referring to specific persons.  Oy. Give me a big, FREAKING BREAK.  This particular Mod perhaps wasn't familiar with the terms?  I am still scratching my head as to how these are offensive?  One has to wonder if I'd mentioned the band with Tina Weymouth, Jerry Harrison, David Byrne and Chris Frantz, would I have been swatted on the nose again? 

 

Thank you for recognizing what a huge waste of time this kind of moderation was for both you the Mods and us the members.

 

OK, sorry, I'll leave it alone now.  orngbiggrin.gif

post #380 of 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiandmoi View Post

I have been on these boards for a while, and my biggest issue isn't really with the moderation. It is with the board culture. There is constantly dangerous advice being bandied about here. I originally came here because I was researching something, and noticed something dangerous was being advised and couldn't live with myself if I didn't mention it.

 

Since then, I have held back a lot of times when something is not the best idea ever, but not really that dangerous. But, I am sorry. If someone posts something that makes me think that they or their children are in real danger, I'm going to say something. If someone posts something that is just plain wrong and is leading people to make decisions about health or safety based on wrong information, I am going to say something. If someone is putting their ideals about NFL above the reality of their situation - and it is causing their family real harm, I am going to say something.

 

Likewise, if someone is struggling with a situation where their ideals are being challenged and they need validation that doing right by their children isn't going to cost them their crunch cred, I'm going to say something. Or if someone wants assurances that even if they don't check off every AP/NFL item off "the list" that their children can still be happy, health, and well adjusted - I'll post to support them.

 

People have a lot of pent up frustrations with the board culture right now. That board culture, which in many ways trickles down from the Admins and Mods, has permitted the board to seemingly be taken over by zealots. Not all the subforums, for sure. But I think the activism and single focus subforms breed zealotry and are the root cause of a lot of the unhappiness for everyone. I think creating these "Support" subforums, like I'm Not Vaccinating, or Unassisted Childbirth is a really IMO stupid and dangerous idea. UC should be discussed in the regular homebirth subforum. It should not be a support only subforum. People considering UC should be exposed to the ideas and concerns of non-UCers and vice versa. Same thing with vaccinations. Why should non-vax have a special area of the board where their ideas and evidence aren't supposed to be challenged? People are making life and death decisions about the health and safety of their families. If something needs challenging, it needs challenging. We should be able to have respectful discussions that including pointing out that people are taking huge, and probably unnecessary risks.

 

 




hm.. how nice of you to assume that i need your input to make my own decisions.

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