Moderation of MDC - What do you think? - Page 4

[Maedze]

I'm also smiling slightly at the posters who are all, "No!  I don't like how meeean people are now!"    I hate to tell you this, but the MEANEST stuff I ever saw was the private messages sent by moderators on power trips.   Blew anything I ever saw on MDC forums out of the water for sheer cold-hearted mean-spiritedness. 

[2lilsweetfoxes]

I like the minimal moderation.  I like being able to say something without getting a warning/ my (I thought) well thought out response deleted or having a thread shut down.  I can't tell you how many times I saw a thread I thought was interesting, flagged it to read later (such as after work), only to have it gone by the time I got back to it.  There are many times when I did not say what I wanted to because I knew it would be a train wreck.

That said, I have seen the pendulum swing both ways--and whenever it does, it goes to the extreme opposite of what it was before.  There is always the "why can't things just stay the same" crowd and there is the "this new way is better".  I think we are just in growing pains and an upset equilibrium.  It will take a while to find the happy medium and get used to the way things are. 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by sarlusan 

Wow, what's wrong with those statements?  I could make either one, and yet I still value and appreciate learning from others who have differing opinions.  Those statements are personal, not aggressive or rude in any way.  If people who could make those statements are not welcome here, then I'm a little confused about the purpose of these boards.  Is this a place ONLY for people who have EXACTLY the same views on childrearing and don't want to interact with anyone else at all?  Too bad, because I've gained a lot from visits here. 

Because there are ten billion other websites for people who want to spank and cry it out.   Why can't you take your spanking/CIO views to those boards and come to MDC for your other needs.  MDC wasn't created as a place for people to condone spanking and CIO.  I like that there is a lot more balance on here now, but there is a place you draw the line. 
 

[Twinklefae]

I really like the freedom that the new moderation style brings.  It feels like a breath of fresh air to freely discuss things like this - like we are equals and like we matter.  Threads like the TWWS thread would not have been possible a couple of years ago and it's a shame.  And as other posters have mentioned, when the boards were heavily moderated, people were just as cruel, they were simply much more PA about it.

As for this being the only place on the internet to discuss NFL/AP, that's simply not true.  It's just used to be the only place where you couldn't argue with someone you felt was making unsafe decisions.  It's nice that that has changed.

[_ktg_]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

I'm a huge fan of a discussion board being supportive of NFL/AP issues.  I don't think anyone wants to see Mothering embrace a more generic format.   However, in the name of 'edginess', MDC in the last few years has gone from 'alternative, crunchy, non-mainstream in a thoughtful, intelligent manner' to supporting whatever insane, off-the-reservation idea is being floated as some sort of fringe, anti-mainstream trend.  

As a proponent of natural birth, of homebirth, of midwives, of 'trusting my body', I have watched in horror as the UC forum provided essentially a line of cheerleaders for people making horriffic decisions, that in multiple cases resulted in the serious birth injury or death of their newborns, and I have watched particularly nasty-minded moderation toward anyone who dared interject a line of common sense into the forum, no matter how kindly and gently phrased, and I have watched MDC quickly cover up its misdeeds by locking or deleting all together threads about the harm those horrible decisions caused.

I can only hope that lighter moderation will protect infants and mothers from suffering in ways that should never have happened.  

Bolding is mine and I totally agree with this!

 

[sarlusan]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Because there are ten billion other websites for people who want to spank and cry it out.   Why can't you take your spanking/CIO views to those boards and come to MDC for your other needs.  MDC wasn't created as a place for people to condone spanking and CIO.  I like that there is a lot more balance on here now, but there is a place you draw the line. 
 

I didn't say I spanked my children, I just said I could make the statement, "I was spanked and I turned out okay."  (Though I guess you'll have to take my word for it).  It was the tone of the statement that I was surprised someone would take offense at.  All I'm saying is, people are at varying stages of learning about AP philosophies.  "Take your views someplace else" isn't going to help the children that you might think would be helped if people who have questions about spanking and crying it out... yet aren't completely 100% where you are at yet... aren't welcome to come learn more.

[amydidit]

Originally Posted by Twinklefae 

I really like the freedom that the new moderation style brings.  It feels like a breath of fresh air to freely discuss things like this - like we are equals and like we matter.  Threads like the TWWS thread would not have been possible a couple of years ago and it's a shame.  And as other posters have mentioned, when the boards were heavily moderated, people were just as cruel, they were simply much more PA about it.

As for this being the only place on the internet to discuss NFL/AP, that's simply not true.  It's just used to be the only place where you couldn't argue with someone you felt was making unsafe decisions.  It's nice that that has changed.

Yes yes a gazillion times YES to the bolded! There were so many times I would post a thread or response in all seriousness looking for advice, or an "I've been there, you're not a terrible person" kind of support only to be made to feel like I was a complete failure because I wasn't AP enough or living NFL enough, or something... but it was always "GENTLE" advice. PA gentle. Just like backhanded compliments. Sure didn't feel a bit gentle, I can tell ya.

[Storm Bride]

I haven't voted yet, because I'm poised between liking the minimal moderation and "other".

There's a bit of a tone here right now that I'm not 100% crazy about. But, I suspect that this:

"Snark and anger will die down after a few months, as people decompress from the ridiculous over-modding of the last 3 years. "

from SneakyPie will address most of it without any mod input.

I do think the previous level of moderation was over the top and very, very frustrating to deal with. Alerts could be, and were, issued for really, really trival things - posting in the wrong forum, quoting a post that referred to another thread, etc. It's kind of hard to stomach when you get one step closer to being banned, because you ask "what's our favourite vegetable?" in TAO, instead of Nutrition, yk?

I'm also stuck between the fact that I like the things MDC stands for and supports, and the fact that I think groupthink is dangerous, and I don't think it matters all that much what the groupthink is about. MDC had become very, very narrow - someone upthread called it an "echo chamber" and I agree with that. Dissent and disagreement are important. OTOH, I also think respect and civility are important and it's not pleasant when those things go down the drain...of course, they frequently went down the drain, even with the old UA and super-strict moderation.

I don't know. I have a soft spot for MDC (as witnessed by my insanely high post count). This forum helped me a lot before and after I had ds2, and stopped me from going completely off the deep end, because NOBODY irl was listening to me at a really hard time in my life. People I've met irl through MDC have become good friends and have had a huge impact on my life. My local tribe were amazingly generous through the single worst event of my life But...I don't seem to be getting that much from the forums, anymore. I just can't tell if that has more to do with MDC or with me. Aside from ds2 (and I think we need professional assistance there), I'm pretty much good with where we're at as parents, and with where our family's at...so maybe now that I'm done with the pain of my reproductive life, I just don't need as much support. I don't know...

So, yeah - still haven't voted, but am still somewhere between "minimal moderation" and "other". Going back to the super strict would probably be what I need to finally stop posting, though - might be good for me. :)

[2lilsweetfoxes]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

I'm also smiling slightly at the posters who are all, "No!  I don't like how meeean people are now!"    I hate to tell you this, but the MEANEST stuff I ever saw was the private messages sent by moderators on power trips.   Blew anything I ever saw on MDC forums out of the water for sheer cold-hearted mean-spiritedness. 

This.  It got to the point that I felt that unless you toed the party line, you would get the "midnight knock on the door"...  I did not even like to discuss things with other members through PM because how do I know they were not going to "out" me for not being "perfect".  That unless you were buddy-buddy with the moderators and fell into lockstep, your voice would be shut down. 

I'm not for:  "hey, dipwad, you are bonkers for doing xyz" (using much more colorful language, of course) when it can be better expressed, "mama, have you considered the all the possible outcomes of xyz and are you prepared for them and what are you doing to minimize the chances of the more negative consequences?" or "mama, next time abc happens, instead of xyz, try nop or qrs".

But, when you can't even debate or bring up concerns because they are "unsupportive", "hostile", or "fostering debate", then healthy communication is lost.  (Hand over ears:  "la-la-la I can't hear you.  Mods--Mods--I don't like what that person said.  Give them a warning or ban them.)

[willowsmom]

Originally Posted by tinybutterfly 

I've been gone awhile.

And wow, just the little I have seen since coming on yesterday...it's a free-for-all out there.

I will go vote other.

I am one who would fall in the happy medium camp for amount of moderation needed.

Yes, we are all adults, but ya know, not all adults seem to be able to be respectful to others. That is a problem.

...

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if it's not okay to talk to a child in a hateful way why is it okay to talk to another adult in a hateful way? And then the adult is told to put on her big girl panties and get over it. I just don't get it. If we can be respectful towards our children, why can't we be respectful towards one another?

Off to vote other.

I could have written this post. I've also been gone awhile...and what I've come back to is not sustainable, IMO. A "happy medium" would be fantastic. We don't have to be micromanaged, but it also doesn't have to devolve into Lord of the Flies. 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by sarlusan 

I didn't say I spanked my children, I just said I could make the statement, "I was spanked and I turned out okay."  (Though I guess you'll have to take my word for it).  It was the tone of the statement that I was surprised someone would take offense at.  All I'm saying is, people are at varying stages of learning about AP philosophies.  "Take your views someplace else" isn't going to help the children that you might think would be helped if people who have questions about spanking and crying it out... yet aren't completely 100% where you are at yet... aren't welcome to come learn more.

Stating "I was spanked and I turned out okay" implies that people should go ahead and spank their kids because they'll turn out okay.  And people ARE welcome to learn more.  When I came here, I had circed my son.  Me posting a pro-circ thread wouldn't have taught me anything.  I realized immediately that suggesting circumcision on these boards was totally taboo and I wondered why.  So I read the threads.  And I understood.  It made complete sense to me and I will definitely not circ my next child if the baby is male.  I also read about UC at a time when it was totally taboo to say anything against UC.  So I read the threads.  And I thought it was crazy and dangerous in the vast majority of the cases.  I made up my own mind despite the fact that MDC had guidelines promoting what it wanted to promote. 

The fact that MDC has had some guidelines on what is and is not okay to promote, doesn't mean that those who don't agree with everything 100% aren't welcome.  I would say even at this point I probably agree with less than 50% of what is posted, but I still feel welcome here.  And I still get some fantastic advice here and learn some amazing things.  If MDC were to start condoning spanking and CIO, this website would be a completely different place really quickly.  It would look just like every other mainstream board on the planet and would not be a place to come and get support for the things a person wanted to learn more about or do. 

[mamakay]

I think this IS the happy medium. I remember when the boards were completely unmoderated, and that wasn't cool. But the extreme overmoderation era, where everyone was expected to only post 100% supportively, non-parenting discussions were shut down, etc, killed the board. Going back to that is certain death for MDC.

[sarlusan]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Stating "I was spanked and I turned out okay" implies that people should go ahead and spank their kids because they'll turn out okay.  And people ARE welcome to learn more.  When I came here, I had circed my son.  Me posting a pro-circ thread wouldn't have taught me anything.  I realized immediately that suggesting circumcision on these boards was totally taboo and I wondered why.  So I read the threads.  And I understood.  It made complete sense to me and I will definitely not circ my next child if the baby is male.  I also read about UC at a time when it was totally taboo to say anything against UC.  So I read the threads.  And I thought it was crazy and dangerous in the vast majority of the cases.  I made up my own mind despite the fact that MDC had guidelines promoting what it wanted to promote. 

The fact that MDC has had some guidelines on what is and is not okay to promote, doesn't mean that those who don't agree with everything 100% aren't welcome.  I would say even at this point I probably agree with less than 50% of what is posted, but I still feel welcome here.  And I still get some fantastic advice here and learn some amazing things.  If MDC were to start condoning spanking and CIO, this website would be a completely different place really quickly.  It would look just like every other mainstream board on the planet and would not be a place to come and get support for the things a person wanted to learn more about or do. 

I totally get your point... I just wonder if the OP meant that people shouldn't give their views at all if they differ from MDC's official party line.  "MDC condoning spanking" is different from someone saying, "I was spanked and I turned out okay, but I'd like to learn more about why people don't spank their children..."  I'm just playing devil's advocate here. 

[annettemarie]

.
Edited by annettemarie - 6/15/11 at 4:51pm

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by amydidit 

Yes yes a gazillion times YES to the bolded! There were so many times I would post a thread or response in all seriousness looking for advice, or an "I've been there, you're not a terrible person" kind of support only to be made to feel like I was a complete failure because I wasn't AP enough or living NFL enough, or something... but it was always "GENTLE" advice. PA gentle. Just like backhanded compliments. Sure didn't feel a bit gentle, I can tell ya.

YES! "Well, if that's how you want to do it...*cough cough* I would never put Junior in such a horrible situation but to each his own... big hugs mama!"

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

I'm also smiling slightly at the posters who are all, "No!  I don't like how meeean people are now!"    I hate to tell you this, but the MEANEST stuff I ever saw was the private messages sent by moderators on power trips.   Blew anything I ever saw on MDC forums out of the water for sheer cold-hearted mean-spiritedness. 

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by amydidit 

Yes yes a gazillion times YES to the bolded! There were so many times I would post a thread or response in all seriousness looking for advice, or an "I've been there, you're not a terrible person" kind of support only to be made to feel like I was a complete failure because I wasn't AP enough or living NFL enough, or something... but it was always "GENTLE" advice. PA gentle. Just like backhanded compliments. Sure didn't feel a bit gentle, I can tell ya.

Yeah, PA insults are honestly much more hurtful, because they're more difficult to address. It's also difficult to actually work out differences with people when you're having to communicate in PA code-speak.

[SuburbanHippie]

I like less moderation.  I thought getting the warnings for things like putting a thread in the wrong category was beyond ridiculous. 

IMO, the problem with the Mothering forums is you can never live up to the awesome MDC super mom that they are aiming to cater toward.  You're left trying to compete with everyone to be the ultra-Earth-Mother and when you come up short, which you will in some aspect or another, you're left feeling jaded and bitter.  Hence, spin off boards.

I don't want MDC to become the next Babycenter or any other super mainstream website.  I actually left there to come here.  I just feel like if we go back to heavy moderation we will end up completely closing off topics and no one is going to have the ability to learn.  You can't learn by regurgitation.  It won't stick.  You need to have a conversation, where there is some give and take of opinions.

Would MDC consider having a debate area so this could happen?  Then the rest of the boards could remain rainbows and sunshine support like a lot of older members need.

[applecider]

Actually (and correct me if I'm wrong here folks) I think it's the older members who want LESS moderation. NOT rainbows and sunshine support. Back to the way it was BEFORE the hardcore moderation. At least that's where I stand. And I consider myself somewhat of an older member.

Hmmm...or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean...

[eclipse]

Yeah, I'm an "old timer" who wants less moderation.