3 year old defiance

[nicolina325]

Hello,

I am new to this forum, but I am desperate and need help.  I am a mother of a 3 1/2 year old and a 1 year old.  My son, the 3 1/2 year old, has turned into what I see a total defiant child.  I used to be able to do things like ignore, praise good behavior, time out in his room, and those things work.  But now, nothing does.  I feel like all I am is a yelling machine and honestly, I really don't like myself like this.  I find myself in tears from frustration and think about the future if this continues, I don't want him to be "that kid" who everyone avoids or groans at when he comes into a room.  I am trying really hard to refocus, and every day I wake up and think, today is going to be good.  But by lunch time, total failure.  I would say it has been this way for about three weeks.  Can someone please help me?  Is this normal?  Do we need help?  I am at the end of my rope.  Thank you.

[Magella]

I think it's normal. Three is a notoriously difficult age. People talk about the "terrible twos," but I think three is harder. 

I think you're doing the right thing with the positive feedback, ignoring when possible, and the occasional time-out. I did find that having a predictable routine/rhythm to the day helped a lot when mine were that age. Make sure you have some regular one-on-one time with your 3 year old (even 15 minutes is so helpful). Make sure he gets enough sleep, that you get out of the house, that he gets enough exercise. Focus on the positive, find the humor, take care of yourself. 

But you can do absolutely all the "right" things as a parent, and your child is still going to go through difficult phases. It's part of growing up, of expanding independence, of experimenting with how they fit in the family and in the world, of navigating the world with limited skills. What he's doing now at age three isn't necessarily predictive of what the future is going to be like, and it doesn't mean that what you're doing isn't working. Discipline takes time. Maturity takes time. It does get better. 

I once read that around the half-birthday and the birthday kids go through periods of disintegration, when their behavior seems to fall apart. I have definitely noticed this kind of cyclical breakdown in my own kids' behavior. Even now that they're older, they clearly go through difficult times that coincide with developmental changes or changes in their routine/environment (such as the end of the school year). I remember, too, that it was hard on my older kids when their younger sibling would first learn to crawl/walk and begin to get into the older child's things/want to play/follow them around. Again, these were phases that passed and we just muddled through until we got to the other side. 

[MountainMamaGC]

Its very normal.

Your only job is to stay sane and keep them safe through it all. Once I stopped trying to fix my DD and focused on keeping myself in check, we both became much happier. Once I understood that at this point in time "nothing" works, I found myself much more patient and easier on both her and myself. I used to get really frustrated thinking that I was failing her or doing something wrong.

The 2s were easy for us, its the 3s that are very trying. Some days are better than others, and some weeks are better than others. Its nothing I did or didnt do.

I havent given up on disciplining her. I just dont feel terrible about it not working anymore. Eventually it will sink in and we will come through the other side.

[zoebird]

I think of it like herding ducks. Have you ever done this?

It's wild. you might find some video online.

anyway, in vietnam, for instance, it is often a child's job to herd the ducks from one enclosure to the next. these enclosures can be about a mile apart, and you don't want to loose one duck. DUcks, of course, do not care about you, the enclosure, or anything else. They have funny little birdy brains, and they like to stay together and they get flapped easily. 

So, if one takes off in one direction, the group will divide, freak out, try to find each other, etc.

I think that 3 yr olds are kinda like that.

I like to think of the tasks that I need to achieve and what I want for DS in terms of the enclosures and the path between them. I know that he is currently in the "playing blocks by himself beautifully" enclosure. I need to then take him to the "bus stop so we can go to playgroup" enclosure, which means that we have to go through the street of Dressing Rd, Going to Toilet Ave, Putting on Our Shoes Ln, and finally, Holding Hands While We Cross the Street Blvd. Once there, we have made it to Bus Stop So We Can Go to Playgroup Enclosure.

By understanding my many tasks, I'm able to better navigate how to heard my flock-of-ducks 3 yr old. His little mind is divided. He both *wants* to go to playgroup and *wants* to stay and play blocks. He also *wants* to wear a short-sleever (as he calls his short sleeved shirts), but of course it is winter in NZ and so he can't (unless he wears it over warmer layers) which usually causes his flock to divide and freak out again! LOL!

Now, how do you heard these ducks?

First, you take on flock leadership.

Most flocks of ducks actually have a loose leadership. It goes in shifts, but there are usually a small cluster of ducks in a group who lead them to their next place (in the wild). Understanding that YOU can be that duck is helpful. This is about saying "right all you other ducks, we are doing this now!" in a way, you are carrying them in your own certainty.

This certainty requires a certain measure of planning -- understanding the rhythm of the flock *helps*. My DS does not move quickly from one activity to another, but he will move cheerfully if you do it exactly right. This means that If the bus leaves at 9:01, I start the transitional process at 8. 

It begins with a simple (happy) pronouncement: We are going to play group today!

This is often met with "NNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I am playing Blocks!" The flock is going "no way, man, this is fine. why move?" They flap around a bit.

I then cheerfully day "oh, but your best friends will be there. Aren't you excited to see them?"

The ducks, now interested "oh, what's that you say? good snails there? right, I think we might put this to the committee. Committee, should we go?" And DS answers with "I love my friends. I would like to see them!"

And then that is the starting point. He will play for about 3-5 more minutes, and then I say "oh, we need to get dressed if we are going to go to playgroup!" 

DS goes "NOOOOOO!!!! I don't want to get dressed. I want to wear my PJs!" The flock is saying "what's this? what? change? that wasn't in the original committee papers! what? what? *flap around a bit in consternation!*"

I then cheerfully say "Oh, PJs are for home, but we are going out to see our friends. When we go out, we wear nice warm clothes so that we can have fun playing otuside. Look! you have this lovely shirt, and these pants, and these socks."

DS "ooh, I will look nice in those" (Ds, is particularly interested in how good he looks. It's very funny actually.) "But I want to wear a short-sleever!" (the Ducks say "quite right, committee has agreed to change out of PJs, but on our terms! We are DUCKS and we will do it our way!"

And so then I respond with a very cheery "Ooh, you do look lovely in your short sleevers, but you'll be too cold to have any fun if you wear that! But, look, you can wear this shirt and it will be perfect."

DS "NOOOOOOOOO! I want to wear a short-sleever!" Ducks: What are you talking about! The committee has decided! You cannot go against the committee!

At this point, I don't say anything. I simply revert back to "it's time to get dressed to go!" all calm and cheery. At this point, he's tossed himself on the floor and quacked a bit about short sleevers. I then say "look, your shirt is all ready to put on now. And so are your pants. Are you coming? So that we can go to playgroup and visit your friends?"

The he quite cheerfully comes over and puts his clothes on.

Then the next step, then the next, until we are at the bus stop. It's pretty much like this all the time. Calm, firm, cheery. This is what we are doing, this is where it is going. Don't worry, here we go! 

It does work. 

---

Now, it might be pointed out that in between all of these bits of conversations, i'm doing things like dressing myself, tidying up the house, packing our bags to go, getting our snacks and lunch together, etc etc etc etc. DS has, by this time, already been fed and what not.

This means, of course -- though I don't know because I'm only a mother of one -- that you might also be able to carry the little one through as well. They tend to be easier going, so you can focus on the little one while the bigger one is transitioning.

I figure that for one child, one needs to add 30 minutes to everything you need to do -- but as he's gotten older, that's obviously an hour now. So, for two, I figure it's squared. 

Is it possible for you to do less or need to do less in a day? 

Do you have a strong rhythm? my son *thrives* on having a consistent week -- every week basically the same, and every day the same routines so that he knows when he has free play, when he ask activities, when his meals are coming, etc etc. Constant change causes tension, and that tension causes the freak outs.

He and my husband freak out at each other when there is change. they are so hobbity. lol (little flocks of ducks in their heads)

[Ilovesunshine]

Zoebird, I'm not the OP, but thank you for your incredibly helpful post! Just what I needed to read this morning with DS1 (he will be 3 next month). I love the duck herding analogy, very apt!

OP, I can recommend 'Raising Your Spirited Child' by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It's referenced alot on MDC, and for good reason. She helps you to figure out exactly what it is that triggers challenging behaviour in your child, and how best to work with them in helping them to get over challenges. It's helped me to figure out that my 3 year old finds the transition between activities really difficult, and if I can just work through the negativity (I don't want to go to the park/brush my teeth/have a bath/visit my cousins), he is happy once we move on to the next opportunity. Most of the time. My sympathy to you, please know you are not alone!

[mamazee]

3.5-year-olds are all about autonomy and power struggles. And they still act very much like toddlers sometimes. It's a really hard age, but he will outgrow it and he won't be "that kid no one wants to be around." It's very normal. But what you call defiance is a very normal development stage where he's trying to assert his independence and autonomy. Try to let him have control over what it is practical for him to control, to give him a sense of autonomy, and save the power struggles for those things that are truly really important. The more you fight his desire for autonomy, the more important it will become for him to assert it, and teh more power struggles you will have. And I promise he enjoys the power struggles more than you do. LOL. I think they live for them at that age.

[librarymommy]

My 3 yr old dd is also going through some minor issues at the moment. Most of the time she's very helpful, but she definitely has a very strong will (her preschool teachers commented on that and her stubbornness specifically!). The only way I can get her to do things at times (bedtime, dressing, picking up toys, eating etc.) is to give her choices. "Which food are you going to eat first? Are you going to hop or tip-toe into the bathroom to brush your teeth?" Her father isn't as good at offering choices on his own, and he tends to get more frustrated with her because of this. Now, if I can just stop her slapping at me when she doesn't get her way...