Walk away at this point? - Page 5

[choli]

It sounds like you've been through a rough time! I'm glad your Dad has come through to help. I agree that it's a very good idea to rent for a while rather than trying to buy again immediately. Give yourself some time to heal from all the stress you've been through, and you will be able to make a future decision to buy based on reasons rather than emotions. Right now you can just concentrate on saving for a deposit and emergency fund, and take your time with buying - I don't think house prices are going up any time soon.

[ellairiesmom]

Originally Posted by choli 

It sounds like you've been through a rough time! I'm glad your Dad has come through to help. I agree that it's a very good idea to rent for a while rather than trying to buy again immediately. Give yourself some time to heal from all the stress you've been through, and you will be able to make a future decision to buy based on reasons rather than emotions. Right now you can just concentrate on saving for a deposit and emergency fund, and take your time with buying - I don't think house prices are going up any time soon.

Thanks so much for your post Choli.  I guess it's like they say...everything happens for a reason.  DH & I are both so eager to get out from underneath the burden of our home.  Taking the time to heal from the stress is actually a really valid point.  It's sad to say goodbye to our home & to not be able to hold on any longer to try & wait it out...but the stress is unbelievable & it's taken it's toll on both of us.

And yes-hopefully when the time is right, the prices & rates will still be right too!  

[Deir]

Best of luck to  you all! What a stressful time. You are the perfect example of how real people are affected by economic issues. I don't even know you but I am sending out lots of energy and prayers that your dh gets the job!

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by Rani 

Contracts have NOTHING to do with morality. they are contracts. Legal documents. Your credit would not be that damaged. Most credit agencies, while they note you are not paying, if you are paying all else on time, will not completely ruin your credit. It will go down some but not terriblly.  A mortgage is a contract and a contract can be rendered null and void.  People seem to have a mystical idea that because its a HOUSE, its different. Nope, its a financial decision ONLY. Now be aware, if you walk away, that shortsale/foreclosure process will take a minimum of a year if not most of two. And you will be required to keep trying to sell it which means still paying the utilities and such though not the taxes. 

Its your decision but use cold rational judgement and financial calculations which include the stress AND the fact that you will still need to pay some things to try to sell.  But do not fall into the "thats unethical" trap of thinking as it clouds your judgement with unnecessary emotionalism.  Think like a corporation. Is the contract still giving you what you want? If not, dissolve it.

I agree with this.  It is a business deal, not an ethical/moral dilemma.  You agree to give the bank the house if you don't pay the mortgage.  If you stole the house and then stopped paying, then it would be theft, which is immoral.  In fact, Morgan Stanley walked away from 5 building in SF: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/06/60minutes/main6466484_page3.shtml

[carmel23]

I agree with this, too.  Good points.

Originally Posted by mnnice 

In response to the bolder part, really?  I am not sure that it a logical statement. I think you are letting the fact that this house is well situated and way cheaper than the house you own cloud you judgement.   Another deal of the century could show up next year.

Commuting costs are also your time and mental anguish too.  I had a 45 minute drive to work for ten years.  The last six months I have had a 10 minute walk to work.  I never really realized how much mental energy the commute sucked from me until I know longer did it.

I think this sounds like a comingled mess.  You are using his cash flow and credit to secure the loan and your money for the down payment.  Whose house is it?  While your FIL is sounds pretty secure finiancially he also doesn't sound like he is Bill Gates either.  I guess I would be more comfortable accepting help that your FIL back out of more easily (paying a specific bill of yours, saving for your kids college, providing free childcare so you could both WOH). 

[carmel23]

This doesn't make sense.  You borrow money to buy a house, and agree to give the bank the house if you don't pay them back.  They are going to give the bank the house-- so your examples are not really correct.  It isn't like they are going to burn the house down.  It is a beautiful home, well cared for. They aren't going to give the money to the bank, so the bank gets the house.

And to blame people who walked away for the loss of $ in your house is not really rational, either. It was a bubble, and the value could have very likely been inflated artificially.  It isn't people "doing whatever they want."  They are doing what makes sense financially.  They will take a huge hit on their credit and likely have lasting damage. See the article about banks walking away from their real estate-- so does that mean what they did is unethical and immoral? 

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Back to CrunchyClark's statement "patently ridiculous." Sorry.  None of your arguments make any sense, but if they make you feel better about your choices, I guess they're serving their purpose. 

Bolded A... It isn't against the law to cheat on my husband, but it would be unethical.  The law isn't about what is and isn't ethical. 

Bolded B-- You didn't borrow money for from anyone for your blackberry.   The contract you signed allowed you the "out" by paying the termination fee.  Both you and the cell phone company agreed to the same terms.  When you buy a house, you borrow REAL money that you agree to pay back.  The cell phone reasoning is flawed.  You could use than in a rent comparison with a broken lease clause but it makes no sense how you described. 

Bolded C-- Really?  Homeowners didn't get bailed out?  Well plenty bailed themselves out by foreclosing.  And who paid for that?  Me and everyone else whose housing value tanked (and in my case we took an 80k hit) due to lots of unethical behavior on the parts of homeowners and banks.  And of course some unfortunate people who lost their jobs, etc.

I have no more to add to this thread though.  It is clear that there are plenty of people who will do whatever suits them and justify their behavior later on to make themselves feel warm and fuzzy.  Sorry, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck.  Those who have convinced themselves that walking away is okay despite having the means to pay are disillusioned. 

[annethcz]

OP- I have my fingers crossed for your DH & the possible new job.  I hope everything falls into place for you :)

[carmel23]

Stephanie-- what a crazy journey!  Although I don't think it is unethical, I am glad you were able to pull it off without walking away in the end.  That seems like it would have been so stressful and another demoralizing thing. 

It is *tough* out there right now.  (hugs) I hope you can take some time to heal.

I will say that I have heard so many stories of people getting jerked around by the banks like that.  I know some people who are actually suing their bank to offer the loan modification--because they did the same thing to them --wait until you are behind and then, oh you are behind, we can't help you.  Lying is more unethical then breaking a contract where you give the bank the house. 

I hope the future is bright for your family.  And at least with all these ups and downs we really know what is important.  It isn't what you own or where you live but who you are and how you treat others (like taking care of your family at the expense of your credit/pride).

[saimeiyu]

Yeah, I think it ought to be (and probably in some places is) illegal for the banks to jerk people around like that after taking taxpayer money to bail themselves out.

I, personally, am of the opinion that there should be a class-action lawsuit against the banks that do that kind of crap to people.  A REALLY BIG class-action lawsuit.  For both financial and emotional damages. The loan modification programs are SUPPOSED to help people who are out of work and upside down, but the banks are not actually helping people and are just jerking people around on purpose.  They need to pay the price for screwing up, not just continue screwing the Americans who are victims of the economic crisis created by Wall Street.

[ellairiesmom]

Thx so much for everyone's kind words of support.  I am really upset with Chase now.  I was speaking to a friend today who informed me that something came out the 1st week of September or so (HUD?) that basically gave anyone in Hurricane Irene's zone 90 days grace on mortgage payments.  No late fees, no reporting to the credit agencies.  And she said she thinks it applies to renters, credit cards & more????  She knew for sure about the mortgage thing because they actually got it from their bank.  I missed this on the web somehow.

But I was on the phone with Chase 12 times during the month of September, 8 of the calls lasted more than 30 mins & 3 of those calls involved me having to ask for a Supervisor.  I was on the phone with them 6 times so far in October, all calls lasting more than 20 mins, 2 Supervisors involved.  (I track all of this in a notebook)  NOT ONCE did anyone at Chase mention this program to me.  Several times I was in tears trying to explain that we have no income coming in, have very little money left in savings & are closing soon anyway which will pay them off 100%.  And I begged them not to report us for the 60 day late because we were both actively interviewing, looking for a rental etc. 

I call them today & find out that the program in fact exists & just takes a phone call to request.  The guy offered it to me for our late October payment.  Just like that.  No one could explain to me why it wasn't offered as a temporary solution to us at all during the 14 phone calls over the past 45 days.  I really feel like they are monsters.  They took bailout money (at least $25 billion) & were supposed to use it to help folks modify their mortgages.  And yup, you bet your asses they get subsidized every which way they can.  And yes, their CEO took a $12m bonus this year.  And they outsource more than 1/4 of their jobs.  We could have totally avoided the 60 day late on our credit & our scores dropping 50 points each.  I just don't understand why not one rep mentioned it to me or asked me or anything.  Chase sent us Fed Ex letters weekly threatening us, offering their bogus mod programs etc.  Never once a letter indicating this option they were supposed to be promoting as per Freddie Mac.

There are hundreds, literally hundreds of articles out there over the course of the past 8 years calling out Chase on their lending practices, refinancing practices & their continued ranking in last place (along with BOA) in terms of mortgage relief programs.  And even some grassroots movements by entire towns to stop their banking relationships.  

[ellairiesmom]

bumped for my update in the original post