WWYD: K or 1st-- moving and cut-off dates. Anyone NEVER do K?? - Page 2

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I think this is what we may end up doing, is subject acceleration, not entire grade.

That's what we've done for our 2e kid -- she essentially started a bit early by starting in a district with a later cut-off and then moving to her current district and she's subject accelerated in math but she won't be full grade accelerating.

FWIW, I haven't seen any data showing poor outcomes from well planned grade skips either.  I have heard anecdotes, but not seen research.

[MomofSev]

My husband is most worried about puberty I believe, or social aspects such as being the youngest (by well over a year) to get his license, which may or may not be important to everyone's kid. I am assuming, possibly in rare children such as ours, it would matter, though. He's got a March birthday so he will still be close to the youngest, or at least the middle, in his grade for those types of milestones. I am sure we seem like a weird family with unusual concerns. We thoroughly talk about A LOT of things before deciding. I usually research topics on my own, before then showing him what I've discovered and before asking opinions of others.

Granted, school situations are unique, I believe, to each child depending on their temperament and social comfortableness, as well as their abilities, etc. I have only "home educated" my child so far. He is very interested in going to school, though. They don't allow early entrance to Kindergarten where we're at, anyway, so THAT wouldn't even be an option (though I've thought about it).

[MomofSev]

Sorry, I think I gravitated from the original poster's issue a bit...

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I think this is what we may end up doing, is subject acceleration, not entire grade.

It could be possible that your child needs a full grade acceleration AND subject acceleration. That's been the case for us. Grade acceleration isn't for all but I have to say, I can't imagine how DD could have continued in school without it (and she has been insistant from the age of 5 that she be IN school!) She's going into her sophmore year in high school and we still have no regrets. More important SHE has no regrets. As it's looking, she's going to move into a middle college program fall of 2012 at age 15. Acceleration has absolutely been the answer for her.

Like I said, it's not for all. We rejected a skip for DS who was already the youngest in a high red-shirting area. He started K at 4y10m and has continued to be the youngest all through elementary. He's still considered the responsible and mature one even those there are boys in his class starting to grow facial hair (I kid you not!) He's in a specialty immersion school with accelerated academics and tons of enrichment. Still, he's needed subject acceleration. If it hadn't have been for this school, he absolutely would have needed a grade skip. I'll add that he's never been as advanced as DD was at the same ages.

The few studies out there actually favor acceleration. The studies siting being the youngest a negative are studies done on kids who are naturally the youngest for grade... not kids who were grade skipped.

When we were at your point, I never would have considered grade acceleration but I learned that staunch beliefs have little place in child rearing lol. Things change, your kids change... you just have to roll with the punches!

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

 The studies siting being the youngest a negative are studies done on kids who are naturally the youngest for grade... not kids who were grade skipped.

I might add that I've never seen studies which stratify out children by ability.  Kids who are naturally young for grade may be at a disadvantage if they are of average ability, but it would be interesting to see how kids who are naturally young for grade and gifted fare statistically.  Both of my girls were on the very young end for grade in a high redshirting area.  One has grade skipped on top of that and is still near the top of the class academically.  The other is the 2e one I mentioned and she, too, is a very good student.  Neither of them ever came out average or below due to being the youngest in grade.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

It could be possible that your child needs a full grade acceleration AND subject acceleration. That's been the case for us. 

True for us too. And organizationally subject acceleration within the age-grade classroom doesn't really work after middle school anyway. If you're a couple of years ahead in your accelerated subjects, then when you go to high school they'll put you in the courses that are a couple of years ahead ... which means you'll be in 11th grade classes at age 14 or whatever. My 12-year-old is starting school for the first time ever this fall. She has completed 9th grade math. They are not going to put her in an 8th grade math course and differentiate: they're going to send her two doors down where there's a teacher actually teaching a class 10th grade math.

miranda

[joensally]

Originally Posted by ChristaN 

I might add that I've never seen studies which stratify out children by ability.  Kids who are naturally young for grade may be at a disadvantage if they are of average ability, but it would be interesting to see how kids who are naturally young for grade and gifted fare statistically.  Both of my girls were on the very young end for grade in a high redshirting area.  One has grade skipped on top of that and is still near the top of the class academically.  The other is the 2e one I mentioned and she, too, is a very good student.  Neither of them ever came out average or below due to being the youngest in grade.

Have you seen this paper?

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/research/grade_acceleration_wells_lohman_marron.pdf

[MomofSev]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

It could be possible that your child needs a full grade acceleration AND subject acceleration. That's been the case for us. Grade acceleration isn't for all but I have to say, I can't imagine how DD could have continued in school without it (and she has been insistant from the age of 5 that she be IN school!) She's going into her sophmore year in high school and we still have no regrets. More important SHE has no regrets. As it's looking, she's going to move into a middle college program fall of 2012 at age 15. Acceleration has absolutely been the answer for her.

Like I said, it's not for all. We rejected a skip for DS who was already the youngest in a high red-shirting area. He started K at 4y10m and has continued to be the youngest all through elementary. He's still considered the responsible and mature one even those there are boys in his class starting to grow facial hair (I kid you not!) He's in a specialty immersion school with accelerated academics and tons of enrichment. Still, he's needed subject acceleration. If it hadn't have been for this school, he absolutely would have needed a grade skip. I'll add that he's never been as advanced as DD was at the same ages.

The few studies out there actually favor acceleration. The studies siting being the youngest a negative are studies done on kids who are naturally the youngest for grade... not kids who were grade skipped.

When we were at your point, I never would have considered grade acceleration but I learned that staunch beliefs have little place in child rearing lol. Things change, your kids change... you just have to roll with the punches!

This is true. I am learning to abandon my original plans and go with the flow more now than ever before in my life (it has become necessary!) :)

And I am assuming that with my husband will change his opinion if it becomes necessary for our child to get what he needs.

[MomofSev]

Originally Posted by joensally 

Have you seen this paper?

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/research/grade_acceleration_wells_lohman_marron.pdf

Great paper! Very informative. I sent it to my husband to read.

My question is, what can be done to change the outlook on teacher's negative opinions of grade acceleration. Especially if it has such positive results for most who experience it.

I am also curious about the follow up of those who were grade accelerated and went on to college. I am assuming it would continue to be positive, but would like to know.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

My question is, what can be done to change the outlook on teacher's negative opinions of grade acceleration. Especially if it has such positive results for most who experience it.

I am also curious about the follow up of those who were grade accelerated and went on to college. I am assuming it would continue to be positive, but would like to know.

What is really needed is for more staff to experience grade acceleration. When DD moved, only the principal had any experience with full-grade acceleration and only personal (her own DD started kindie a year early 30 years prior.) The incoming teacher for DD was hesitant but by the end of the year, she was a huge supporter. Every teacher she had has been sold on it. It helped that DD was an excellent candidate who had tried all the other options and proved them not to be enough. What helped on my end was to be very involved in the school but not neccessarily with my own child. I tutored lots of other kids. I ran strategy game clubs and taught reader's theatre. Teacher's began to really trust me. DD's 4th grade teacher actually asked me to be her official paid aide so I got to sit in DD's class 3 hours a day for money lol.

Of course, it's a double edged sword... the more acceptable it becomes, the more poor choices will be accelerated and have bad experiences.  In our district, acceleration is still rare but considered a viable option. At this point, only the very best candidates are accelerated. However, if districts jump to it too fast, if they start bending too much to the will of parents (and there are plenty who advocate for acceleration even in totally innapropriate cases,) I have no doubt you'd start seeing negative situations. It's like red-shirting. It started well enough with a few parents only holding back their kindies who really were immature and NOT ready. Now the majority of entering kindies are older 5's and 6's who were truely ready the year prior. DS had 2 kids in class turn SEVEN within the K school year! We are seeing so many negatives that "grade correction" has become common in middle school. Same with homeschooling. The movement in our area started with just those most passionate and invested doing it. Now, it's very common in our county now and you see more and more poor situations. Basically, we want enough good experiences for teachers to make them willing to try with a positive outlook but not so many that the quality of candidates starts to drop.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I am also curious about the follow up of those who were grade accelerated and went on to college. I am assuming it would continue to be positive, but would like to know.

We're not quite there yet, but my 17yo dd is basically finished high school a year early. Next year she'll be living on her own in a big city on the other side of the country, with considerably more independence than a typical college student. (She'll be in college the following year. Due to growing up in a remote area where there are few music opportunitie she wanted a year of proper weekly music training before starting a Bachelor of Music in Performance the following year.) If you'd asked me five years ago whether she'd thrive with this early entry into adulthood I would definitely have been skeptical. She was the kid who was homeschooled because she was so attached that she couldn't bear to be away from home every day at age 5, who was so shy even at age 10 or 11 that she couldn't answer wait-staff at restaurants who asked what salad dressing she wanted. She had few friends, she didn't like sleepovers, she avoided new types of experiences due to lingering social anxieties. I'm sure that many people who knew her then would have predicted that she'd be the sort of young adult who would want to stay in her home town and take only very gradual steps into independence. 

But she always had her own curious brand of adult-like maturity. In the past three years she's grown into herself in a huge way. She, much more so than any of the other 17-year-olds I know, is ready to be an adult. She's travelled abroad without family for months on end, she's taken part in music programs in other parts of the coutry with mostly much older students. Yesterday she met her next-year's landlord (a relative of a friend who owns a house in the large city where my dd will be living in the fall) for the first time. I had spoken to the landlord on the phone a couple of times, and she'd had reservations about renting to someone so young, wondering whether it could really be the right situation for my dd, suggesting that at her age she might be best in a home-stay type situation or rooming house. But after they had dinner together I got an amazed email from the landlord, raving about what an exceptional young woman my dd is and saying that all her concerns had been put to rest during their visit.

So in our case "accleration" has not (to date) created any difficulties at the point of entry to adulthood.

Miranda

[MomofSev]

Good to know, Miranda! I would think, with the experience of being around older peers, it would be that way for most kids. There are of course going to be those who, despite the superior cognitive intelligence, just do not have the maturity to fare in the world until well after 18.

[MomofSev]

Wow.. I actually talked to my husband today and he seemed ok with early entrance to Kindergarten for our son! This is new, before he has been DEAD SET AGAINST it!

I know that both districts we are between require children are 5 before entering Kindergarten. I am contacting them to find out what can be done about this, if anything (which would be very sad if nothing can be done).

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

Wow.. I actually talked to my husband today and he seemed ok with early entrance to Kindergarten for our son! This is new, before he has been DEAD SET AGAINST it!

I know that both districts we are between require children are 5 before entering Kindergarten. I am contacting them to find out what can be done about this, if anything (which would be very sad if nothing can be done).

Good Luck!

Most areas will not do early entry for a Spring Bday. If they do offer early entry,usually a child has to be 5 by a set date (often Dec or Jan).

With a March Bday-- your DS would be 5.5 when school started if he did K on the traditional schedule, right in the middle age-wise in fact. 

Maybe they allow entry in to 4 yr old K or a young 5s program? or Private school?

Also--- potentially if they do not allow early entry, other PP have had luck with starting K and then switching mid-year to 1st or doing a direct placement in 1st or 2nd after homeschooling (to get around age restrictions). Sometimes areas are more open to acceleration vs early entry : They get to know the child better.

I will say we did not do K in our current state-- my kids missed the deadline by less than 45 days. No exceptions. Now we are moving and due to a change in age restrictions, we will be likely putting our kiddos straight in 1st at 5y 9 months - we will have the school do a simple assessment to make sure that it is the right placement (K or 1st). Social/Emotional is the major concern...academically is not the issue. No matter what they will need subject acceleration for reading and possibly math. Essentially, we will have loosely homeschooled for K as they went to a play based  PreK program.

[MomofSev]

Yeah, I was told today that he has to be 5 by August 31st, no exceptions. They also have a set age limit for entrance into 1st grade (6 yo by August 31).

I think we will be looking into other options, though! I would accept acceleration into 1st grade next year, mid-year, if they would even allow that.