TF and type 1 diabetes in newly diagnosed 13 yo ds ???

[thedomesticdiva]

We have been home from the hospital a week now and I am really struggling to reconcile what I know about nutrition and all the garbage I have been told about how to feed my child.  He is 13 and is diagnosed with Type 1 - having to do insulin at every meal and at nighttime.

We have eaten TF for 4+ years now.  We eat sprouted grains, raw milk, drink kefir, lots of organic or local veggies, lots of butter and coconut oil... 

The doctors want my son to eat more carbs than we did otherwise.  A typical meal before diagnosis was 25+ carbs, but they are pushing him to eat 75+ carbs for each meal.  As a compromise, we have been averaging 45+ carbs a meal the last week.

I think the insulin itself is gross, so I really want to pump up his nutrition otherwise.  I could not wait to get him home from the hospital because all he was eating was white bread, pancakes, and milkshakes - no veggies.  The concept was "eat whatever you want and cover it later"...  The nutritionist could not believe how we eat - sprouted whole grains, etc.  I really did not go into the fact that we eat lots of fats and RAW milk and kefir.

Anyone have experience with Type 1 and TF, and any other suggestions for me?

Thanks!!

Sara

[Think of Winter]

Hi Sara,

Sorry to hear about your son's diagnosis. I was diagnosed at 3, and my son at 12 mos. 

Finding a good endo/cde is not easy.  The website/forum Insulin Pumpers has an endo referral list.  I've been pumping more than 11 yrs and ds's been pumping since 2 weeks after diagnosis, so I'm a huge believer that it's better and easier. 

My guess is that they suggested eating the same amount of carbs every meal to figure out his insulin to carb ratio.  Once you know that, you can bolus for whatever he eats (although I've found there is an upper limit.  No amount of insulin will cover 3 slices of pizza for me consistently.)  That's called carb counting, and it's the modern way to cover food with insulin.  The exchange system is old.  Did you determine his insulin to carb ratio in the hospital?  I'd make that a priority if not.  You'll also need to find out his correction factor.  

I don't follow a tf diet, but I don't see why that would be inconsistent with good control.  Large amounts of fat and protein affect how quickly you digest your food, and therefore how closely the insulin's action matches digestion to keep bg stable.  There's no reason you can't figure out how to do that, but it takes time, and it's not easy (for anyone.)

Insulin isn't gross.  I love it.  It keeps me and my kid alive every day.  But I do find I have the most stable blood sugars when my carbs are low and they have a low glycemic index.

 

Thirteen is a tough age.  They probably told you this, but growth hormones can wreak havoc on blood sugars, too.

I hope you can find a lot of support and help.  Wishing your and your son the best.  Pm me any time.

p.s.  I love Charleston so much.  I did part of my grad work there.  I'd love to live there.

[Lazurii]

My Hubby has Type I diabetes, so the following is from numerous conversations I've had with him.

Is your son still in the honeymoon phase of his diabetes?  That means his pancreas is still producing some insulin.  You'll want to preserve that as long as possible!  As soon as you start introducing insulin into his body the pancreas WILL STOP PRODUCING ANYTHING!  My Hubby says if he had to do it all over again he would cut his carbs drastically so that his body could keep up with small amount of insulin he was producing.  Think the primal diet.

And I know this next bit of information might be controversial, but The Hubby said if he had to do it again knowing what he knows now he would try to heal his body.  Type I is an autoimmune disorder so by our theory if you can turn off the autoimmune response during the honeymoon phase his body might be able to regrow his islet cells and he'll be fine.  Once again, I'm not a doctor, so this is all my own idea.  Don't take it as medical advice.

One last bit of advice, be wary of the type of milk you use for your family.  Unfermented dairy protein has been positively correlated with Type I diabetes.  The theory is with a leaky gut the proteins escape into the body exciting the immune system which then attacks the islet cells.

I'm going to link to my thread that I started about the dairy/diabetes correlation.  I've posted a lot of stats and a link to a quote about the studies done on the dairy/diabetes link.

On the other thread laohaire gave me this information that might be helpful for you:

"You may be interested in researching A1 vs A2 milk, which refers to the beta casein protein type. The vast majority of the cow milk out there is A1. Some research is showing a correlation between A1 and diabetes, as well as other conditions and diseases.

Human milk is of type A2. Some cows produce A2 milk, but I'm not very familiar with the specifics of that (I assume a few breeding lines have produced such tendencies - or maybe it's specifically Jersey breed cows). You would have to look, but it is possible to get A2 cow milk. Often it is raw, grassfed milk. You can also pasteurize it yourself if you like.

I'm not an expert on this but hopefully this tidbit will nudge you in the right direction."

I hope any of this helps, and I wish you the best.

Edit:  Forgot the link to the other thread!

[serenbat]

 Unfermented dairy protein has been positively correlated with Type I diabetes.  The theory is with a leaky gut the proteins escape into the body exciting the immune system which then attacks the islet cells.

Human milk is of type A2. Some cows produce A2 milk, but I'm not very familiar with the specifics of that (I assume a few breeding lines have produced such tendencies - or maybe it's specifically Jersey breed cows). You would have to look, but it is possible to get A2 cow milk. Often it is raw, grassfed milk. You can also pasteurize it yourself if you like.

bolding what I don't get in regards to your previous statement

Would you please clarify what you mean here?

Can you explain why you suggest raw grass feed milk if you see the connection with UNfermented dairy? also can't grasp the thing on pasteurization but I asked before and you didn't answer that either

so UNfermented is - good or bad?-bad from what I THINK you saying but RAW is totally different???--this is where my head spins

raw is good and so is pasteurization?

The OP states that she has been using raw milk.

Edited by serenbat - 6/17/11 at 11:32am

[Lazurii]

Here we go again, serenbat, so read carefully.  The above quoted statement, the one between the quotation marks, is from laohaire from the other thread.  If I was able to find a source of A2 raw milk I would not pasteurize it.  However, all that is available to me at this time in my budget is pasteurized, organic, non-homogenized, whole milk.  Hence I will be culturing all of my pasteurized milk to be sure to eliminate or at least reduce the risk to my children.  It is possible to culture pasteurized milk if you introduce a culture such as yogurt or kefir grains.

I don't know how raw milk figures into all of this because it has not been studied to the best of my knowledge.  I believe all that was studied was pasteurized milk and pasteurized, then cultured, milk.  My own theory is A1 raw milk would be okay for the general public to consume.  I say this since the theory I see is pasteurization can alter the proteins causing the autoimmune response.  For anyone with a high risk for diabetes, such as those with parents or siblings or cousins, etc. with diabetes, the only raw milk I suggest is A2.  But, since I have not conducted any studies and I am not a doctor, I can't say what would be best for your family.

The OP did not state if she's been using A1 or A2 milk. 

And I am not stupid, I understand that raw milk is completely different from pasteurized milk, but if milk is bad for your body (not a general "your", a specific "your" such as I know someone who has an anaphylactic response to milk, it would be stupid to give him raw milk) it doesn't matter if it's raw or not, it's bad for your body.  Sometimes this is true, so where raw milk is the BEST choice, sometimes it's not a choice at all for those who are sensitive or have problems with certain components in milk.

[serenbat]

 Unfermented dairy protein has been positively correlated with Type I diabetes. 

so you didn't write this?

and the mention of raw- regardless of you quoting someone else is not related-correct? in other words you quoted something you don't believe?

I did not ask you about a1 or a2

 UNfermented means what to you and what is raw? same question I asked and you can't seem to answer

IF unfermented is this evil you speak of why are you suggesting raw (or quoting for it)?

[BubblingBrooks]

The number one item that a diabetic should get on, and stay on, is the fermented cod liver oil.Triple dose if possible, but a single will do Several things will happen. No issues with infections and slow healing.
Liver will function at its best. Eyes will be better protected, as will the heart.

WAPF has done a great deal of research on this, and it was through them that we totally changed DHs issues with type 1.
He was a new man in no time at all due to the FCLO.
www.drrons.com

Equally as important, is to get on a high zinc supplement. You will often hear that diabetics should take zinc, but you will not hear why. Zinc prevents the blood sugar from bouncing and will keep the A1C numbers in check.

And of course, raw dairy (please do not stress to the extreme about the A1 and A2 right off that bat. If type 1 is already diagnosed, then its not going to make a difference in the type) and any and all traditional nutrient dense animal foods you can get your hands on.

Getting your child in the kitchen cooking with you, and creating fun new and improved recipes will make learning to eat this way better in the long run.

[serenbat]

If I was able to find a source of A2 raw milk I would not pasteurize it. 

I say this since the theory I see is pasteurization can alter the proteins causing the autoimmune response.

BUT - 

Hence I will be culturing all of my pasteurized milk

totally do not get any thing you are saying----nothing makes any logical sense here -IMO

[serenbat]

And of course, raw dairy (please do not stress to the extreme about the A1 and A2 right off that bat. If type 1 is already diagnosed, then its not going to make a difference in the type) and any and all traditional nutrient dense animal foods you can get your hands on.

 

wow raw!

a post I can understand too

[BubblingBrooks]

I also wanted to note, that it is typical to require more carbs for diabetics, but please be aware that that is not a good idea. It just causes more issues, and much higher needs more insulin.
Which my the way you should not be grossed out by.
Your son will be on it the rest of his life, and he will die if he does not take it.
Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the truth.

For low blood sugar times dried fruit is the best choice. Chewing a hand full of raisins slowly is a good idea.
Skip the glucose tabs. In a true emergency do not be afraid of straight up white sugar under the tongue.
Keeping a few sugar packets or even those tiny frosting tubes in easy to access areas to emergencies is always a good idea.
And of course, a baggy of dried fruit next to them for less urgent times.

[Lazurii]

All I can afford right now is commercial milk that is already pasteurized.  I really don't see any contradiction in my statements!  My heavens, serenbat, I will not be responding to you in the future, you are hell-bent on proving that raw milk is all there is, be-all-end-all and you cannot read whatever I write for I don't know what reason.  The only thing I can think of is you think I am a troll of some sort.  I am not trolling, I live in a different situation than you.  I would love to find raw milk, but I CAN'T.  Hence I will culture my pasteurized milk, I will not drink/eat it uncultured.  I assume raw milk would be FINE because it has the beneficial bacterias to help digest the proteins rendering them safe for the body.

BubblingBrooks, I bring up the A1/A2 in case she has other children so that their risk can be minimized.  And I really don't see the harm in seeking out A2 milk since it might help avoid other autoimmune disorders such as MS, lupus, etc.  1 in 7 Type I diabetics have other autoimmune disorders.  I tell her so that she has the information for use.  She can do whatever she wants with it.

One last thing, I am new to TF.  I am new to Mothering.  My welcome has been for the most part been warm, but it seems whenever I talk about something I know quite a bit about I get blasted.  I know a lot about diabetes.  Let me just say after this and my last encounter over milk I am getting sick of this.  I understand there are strong feelings about raw milk on this board and I can understand and appreciate that.  And I am pro raw-milk, I JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT right now.  Good heavens, that does not make me anti-milk or a plant or a troll or whatever.  That makes me poorer than I'd like to be, and the last time I looked being poor is not a reason to be treated like crap.

End rant.

[serenbat]

 Unfermented dairy protein has been positively correlated with Type I diabetes.  The theory is with a leaky gut the proteins escape into the body exciting the immune system which then attacks the islet cells.

is this just pulled out of mid-air?

I don't know how raw milk figures into all of this because it has not been studied to the best of my knowledge.  

IMO feel statements like this are not only baffling but not a bit helpful to the OP or the thread-since the OP is using raw milk I don't see how stating this is in any way helpful here

[serenbat]

All I can afford right now is commercial milk that is already pasteurized.  I really don't see any contradiction in my statements!  My heavens, serenbat, I will not be responding to you in the future, you are hell-bent on proving that raw milk is all there is, be-all-end-all and you cannot read whatever I write for I don't know what reason.  The only thing I can think of is you think I am a troll of some sort.  I am not trolling, I live in a different situation than you.  I would love to find raw milk, but I CAN'T.  Hence I will culture my pasteurized milk, I will not drink/eat it uncultured.  I assume raw milk would be FINE because it has the beneficial bacterias to help digest the proteins rendering them safe for the body.

is is NOT about drink raw milk- it is about misleading inaccurate information

It appears you don't get what pasteurization, unfermented and raw mean-that is very sad-

it is NOT wrong to question but you do not back up what you are saying not to mention you contradict yourself in every other paragraph-so it is very hard to even understand what you are trying to talk about---I asked for clarification because I can not follow any of what you are saying or any logical reasoning behind it- either for it or against it?

I do not push raw milk drinking and resent the misguided accusations 

[Lazurii]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

It appears you don't get what pasteurization, unfermented and raw mean-that is very sad-

If I am apparently so stupid as to not understand this, then why do you keep harping on my "stupidity" instead of teaching me?  Seems rather rude to me...

Pasteurized:  Heated to the point of killing all bacteria in the milk.  Done commercially to prevent milk from naturally fermenting, known as "souring".  The high heats used commercially is theorized to denature the proteins and other components in the milk.

Unfermented:  The milk has not been fermented, or cultured.  Culturing can be letting raw milk sour using the naturally occurring bacteria present in raw milk.  Milk can also be cultured after pasteurization by introducing a bacterial culture to make yogurt, kefir, buttermilk, and cheeses.

Raw:  Straight from the cow, but usually cooled quickly to keep sweet longer.  However, it is a delightful treat to milk directly into a cup and drink it on the spot, I enjoyed that a lot from my childhood.

So, did I pass your test?

Hey, in the future, let's continue this conversation with PMs so that we don't clog up this thread.  I'm sorry, DomesticDiva, I was just trying to share my opinion with you, I'm sorry it turned into a nasty debate.  I wish you the best with your son and I hope that you will be blessed with the knowledge you need to take care of your family.  My thoughts will be with you.

[BubblingBrooks]

The report button is a much handier method...

[serenbat]

I would hope the OP does not think that she contributed to her DS's condition by what she gave him

[Think of Winter]

This is absolutely wrong and dangerous advice, particularly since the op already mentioned that she thinks "insulin is gross."  Insulin will keep her son alive.  The only way to prolong the honeymoon phase is by keeping bgs as close to normal as possible.  Op, there are plenty of places online to get advice about diabetes.  I now think that it's dangerous for you to do so here.  Try Children With Diabetes, JDRF, Insulin Pumpers, or http://www.isletsofhope.com/diabetes/problems/honeymooning_1.html  
 

As soon as you start introducing insulin into his body the pancreas WILL STOP PRODUCING ANYTHING!  

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by Think of Winter 

This is absolutely wrong and dangerous advice, particularly since the op already mentioned that she thinks "insulin is gross."  Insulin will keep her son alive.  The only way to prolong the honeymoon phase is by keeping bgs as close to normal as possible.  Op, there are plenty of places online to get advice about diabetes.  I now think that it's dangerous for you to do so here.  Try Children With Diabetes, JDRF, Insulin Pumpers, or http://www.isletsofhope.com/diabetes/problems/honeymooning_1.html  
 

I sincerely hope my real life traditional food advise is not being viewed as dangerous

[Think of Winter]

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

I sincerely hope my real life traditional food advise is not being viewed as dangerous

Telling the parent of a newly diagnosed type 1 to stop using insulin is dangerous.  Did you do that?  I was referring to the part I quoted.

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by Think of Winter 

Telling the parent of a newly diagnosed type 1 to stop using insulin is dangerous.  Did you do that?  I was referring to the part I quoted.

I was referring to saying that this is not a place that is safe for her.
And no, I did not say that.