TF and type 1 diabetes in newly diagnosed 13 yo ds ??? - Page 2

[leahsmama]

Originally Posted by Lazurii 

Is your son still in the honeymoon phase of his diabetes?  That means his pancreas is still producing some insulin.  You'll want to preserve that as long as possible!  As soon as you start introducing insulin into his body the pancreas WILL STOP PRODUCING ANYTHING!  My Hubby says if he had to do it all over again he would cut his carbs drastically so that his body could keep up with small amount of insulin he was producing.  Think the primal diet.

As Think of Winter has stated, this is dangerous advice. Whether you meant to or not, Lazurii, you are certainly implying that the OP shouldn't be starting insulin.

Sara, listen to your doctors who have experience with diabetes, not some people on the internet. The long term damage done by diabetes (read: high blood sugar) is extensive. The tighter control a diabetic keeps over their blood glucose, the better the long term picture is. This is not something to mess around with with unproven methods. Insulin works. It will keep your son alive and healthy.

[Lazurii]

Did I say to stop insulin therapy?  I said that as soon as insulin is introduced then the body will stop producing it's own insulin.  This is all true.  And, yes, the best way to prolong the honeymoon period is to keep blood glucose levels as normal as possible.  But if her son is still producing insulin (and I said IF) then he may be able to control his BG by eating less carbs.  If it's not possible to keep level by reducing carbs then, yes, he will most certainly need insulin therapy.

I showed my diabetic Hubby this thread and he was the OP to know that 25 carbs a meal is AMAZING.  Keep it up.

[Lazurii]

I will restate that following this course of action is my own opinion.  I am not a doctor.  DomesticDiva needs to weigh all the information she is getting and figure it out on her own.  And since her son will be doing several finger sticks a day I know that they can keep track of his BG and be able to treat him accordingly. 

[Think of Winter]

Originally Posted by Lazurii 

  I said that as soon as insulin is introduced then the body will stop producing it's own insulin.  This is all true.  

No, it's not.

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by Think of Winter 

No, it's not.

During the honeymoon phase, you use less insulin at the beginning. Never none. Never.

[thedomesticdiva]

I am not planning on taking my son off of the insulin.  I do not believe, however, that 75 carbs a meal and lots of insulin is healthy.  For 4 years, I have given him food made by GOD, simple and nourishing.  That still makes sense to me.  Thanks for your concern. 

We drink raw, grass-fed Jersey milk and lots of kefir.  There is really no need for more debate about this :)

Bubblingbrooks, we do the cod liver oil but I think I might up his dosage.  From the studies I have seen, I wish we had started sooner.

If anyone could please offer any more advice about feeding him TF, I would greatly appreciate it.  Specifically I was interested in lowering the carbs, and how to treat the higher fat for carb calculations.

Thanks again.

[carlylovesthesims2]

imo this is bloody stupid i have type one diabetes and  without insulin   you  DIE  type one  diabetes is not cured by  raw milk ban me if you like but  to save your child losing limbs sight or other things  think long and hard before   you  try and cure it  type one diabetes is a auto immune diabetes with no known caise ban me if  you like but i couldnt  sit here and  watch a  child suffer

[carlylovesthesims2]

there is  also a honeymoon period in type one  where the pancreas still prouduces some insulin that eventully stop however  you   must  do insulin injections  or  your  son will get veyr very ill or get  ireversible  damage  or may even die  im  32 almost and i was dignosed type one aged  20  so i do know what  im talking about and yes type one  is dignosed at any age

[Think of Winter]

Originally Posted by thedomesticdiva 

If anyone could please offer any more advice about feeding him TF, I would greatly appreciate it.  Specifically I was interested in lowering the carbs, and how to treat the higher fat for carb calculations.

Thanks again.

How are his bgs now?  Are you eating your normal foods?  I'd switch to your normal diet and test, test, test.  If you can keep his carb/fat/protein relatively stable for a few days, you'll be able to see his bg response more clearly and tweak things.

It takes trial and error to figure out how fat and protein will affect bgs.  Typically, high fat and protein (and choosing low glycemic carbs over high) slow the process of turning food into glucose in the blood.  That is a good thing, usually, since even Humalog and Novalog tend to peak after the carbs hit, so you get a bg spike after a meal.  Slowing down the carbs can really even things out, and low carbs is a way to do that.  However, a high fat/high protein meal can cause spikes later, as in the middle of the night.  Not necessarily a deal breaker if that's how you eat, but you want to cover that spike later.  That's another big advantage to using a pump, since you can give a meal bolus over time rather than all at once.

I suspect they told you 75 carbs because that's what 13 yr olds often eat.  Hospitals have cookie cutter guidelines.  Our time in the hospital when ds was diagnosed was HORRIBLE.  He was 12 mos, and his first meal was a hot dog.  They refused to correct a 300+ bg in the middle of the night.  I could go on.  

Are you doing lost of bg checks?  I know you didn't ask for this, but there are lancet devices that hurt a lot less and make bg checks easier.

I do recall some chat on the IP forum years ago about some way to divide either no. grams of protein or fat to get an equivalent bolus for carb counting.  But it is very individual.  

I'm sorry your thread got hijacked and I hope this is more helpful to you.  Wishing you the best.

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by carlylovesthesims2 

imo this is bloody stupid i have type one diabetes and  without insulin   you  DIE  type one  diabetes is not cured by  raw milk ban me if you like but  to save your child losing limbs sight or other things  think long and hard before   you  try and cure it  type one diabetes is a auto immune diabetes with no known caise ban me if  you like but i couldnt  sit here and  watch a  child suffer

I think you misunderstood a few things
No one is talking about a cure here.
But, if a high real fat diet is followed with lots of nutrient dense foods and plenty of fclo, then NONE of the typical side affects will manifest. No trouble with infections, slowing of neuropathy, and some reversal in as well. Eyes will not go as quickly either. Limb loss occurs because of a high carb diet that requires high usage of insulin.
THe modern medical diet for diabetics is a recipe for disaster.

[BubblingBrooks]

Originally Posted by thedomesticdiva 

I am not planning on taking my son off of the insulin.  I do not believe, however, that 75 carbs a meal and lots of insulin is healthy.  For 4 years, I have given him food made by GOD, simple and nourishing.  That still makes sense to me.  Thanks for your concern. 

We drink raw, grass-fed Jersey milk and lots of kefir.  There is really no need for more debate about this :)

Bubblingbrooks, we do the cod liver oil but I think I might up his dosage.  From the studies I have seen, I wish we had started sooner.

If anyone could please offer any more advice about feeding him TF, I would greatly appreciate it.  Specifically I was interested in lowering the carbs, and how to treat the higher fat for carb calculations.

Thanks again.

An awsome way to keep track of what he is eating, is using www.fitday.com
Input foods eaten, or the days menu to be eaten, and you can adjust until the correct carb, fat and protien levels are in place.

[JTA Mom]

The thing is, while protein and fat are converted much more slowly into blood sugar, they are converted. I think the hospital recommendation of 75 was so that one factor is kept consistent so you can see how his bgs really reacts. Not that it was an absolute mandatory level at all times.

Low blood sugar is also incredibly dangerous as well. I don't have diabetes, but I do have reactive hypoglycemia. It is not fun when my bgs plummet.

As for feeding him, TF, why would increasing the carbs be against it? I thought sprouted grains, dairy, fruits are all okay and in line with TF. It's easy to get to 75 by adding some fruit at the end of a meal.

Ami

[serenbat]

As for feeding him, TF, why would increasing the carbs be against it? 

I second this- at least for awhile until you get a more level set of readings

I don't personally feel eating TF contributes to or adds to type 1 or 2 (this includes "good" dairy as well)

also try and find a Dr that will work with you and how you want your family to eat- they are out there

sadly you can only do so much--- this happens to be very personal (and local) for me - accidents do happen beyond your control of his food intake - www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-allentown-hospital-nun-death-20110616,0,781958.story

-- 

[amnesiac]

Please remain focused on the OP's request for any tips for diabetics on following a TF diet. Clearly this is not the appropriate place to discuss diabetes pathophysiology or treatment & the OP has acknowledged that this, or any other, discussion is "not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment."

Also remember that "members are required to treat one other with respect and courtesy at all times. MDC Members agree not to ... harass, impersonate, intimidate or defame another member ... post or delete content with the intention of disrupting discussions or violating the guidelines above.." A number of rude, disruptive posts have already been made and I would ask that you please refrain from such statements moving forward. Politey clarify any misunderstandings pertaining to the topic or discuss the matter privately so that the discussion here can continue productively.

With an open mind & willingness to learn, remember and be respectful of the fact that that we all come from a different place - we all have different resources & experience levels.

[Faither]

Hi. My hubby as T1 and was diagnosed at 3. He's now almost 30 and his docs say he's one of the healthiest t1s they've ever seen. We both credit that to his parents strictly monitoring his blood sugar and his food intake. He def. had a typical American diet too (hot dogs, fast food and soda constantly). I think a TF diet would probably benefit a diabetic in the same way it would benefit a regular person. Like someone else said, the docs probably want you to establish a base line while you and your son get used to being a T1. have you spoken to a nutritionist? Find another one if you don't like the first. And keep a food diary with blood sugars written in next to everything. You have to be diligent with everything. DH had a minor complication and that was the first time we realized that high/low blood sugars have serious long term effects that don't kick in for a few months. And his sugars weren't too high (200ish) after lunch. This was after he'd been a T1 for 20something years too.

Can you get your son on a continuous glucose monitor? That helped DH correct his highs and lows because it pinpointed them much more accurately. Also an insulin pump is helpful but not always for everyone. After using one for two years, DH realized that he found injections easier to manage. That's not so for a coworker of mine.

good luck! It's a lot to take in and understand all at once. I was struggling with it when Dh and I first got married. PM me if you need to vent. I've been there and done that, even if it was with a 20+ year diabetic.

[swede]

Originally Posted by thedomesticdiva 

We have been home from the hospital a week now and I am really struggling to reconcile what I know about nutrition and all the garbage I have been told about how to feed my child.  He is 13 and is diagnosed with Type 1 - having to do insulin at every meal and at nighttime.

We have eaten TF for 4+ years now.  We eat sprouted grains, raw milk, drink kefir, lots of organic or local veggies, lots of butter and coconut oil... 

The doctors want my son to eat more carbs than we did otherwise.  A typical meal before diagnosis was 25+ carbs, but they are pushing him to eat 75+ carbs for each meal.  As a compromise, we have been averaging 45+ carbs a meal the last week.

I think the insulin itself is gross, so I really want to pump up his nutrition otherwise.  I could not wait to get him home from the hospital because all he was eating was white bread, pancakes, and milkshakes - no veggies.  The concept was "eat whatever you want and cover it later"...  The nutritionist could not believe how we eat - sprouted whole grains, etc.  I really did not go into the fact that we eat lots of fats and RAW milk and kefir.

Anyone have experience with Type 1 and TF, and any other suggestions for me?

Thanks!!

Sara

I saw your bolded, and couldn't read any further.  Insulin is gross?  http://www.dlife.com/dlifetv/video/the-story-of-insulin-part-1

I don't know, but I think watching your child die a painful death is waaay grosser.  I'm sorry for you and your son.  Please get into a diabetes support group or something, soon.  It seems as if you are completely overwhelmed right now (which is normal), but you need to follow the recommendations of your endo and diabetes educator.  You may not see the negative effects of not taking this seriously right now, but they will show up in devastating ways years later.   
 

[swede]

Originally Posted by thedomesticdiva 

I am not planning on taking my son off of the insulin.  I do not believe, however, that 75 carbs a meal and lots of insulin is healthy.  For 4 years, I have given him food made by GOD, simple and nourishing.  That still makes sense to me.  Thanks for your concern. 

We drink raw, grass-fed Jersey milk and lots of kefir.  There is really no need for more debate about this :)

Bubblingbrooks, we do the cod liver oil but I think I might up his dosage.  From the studies I have seen, I wish we had started sooner.

If anyone could please offer any more advice about feeding him TF, I would greatly appreciate it.  Specifically I was interested in lowering the carbs, and how to treat the higher fat for carb calculations.

Thanks again.

kids need lots of carbs (good ones) - carbohydrates fuel the energy-producing powerhouses of your child's tissues and organs. The energy generated from carbohydrates powers your child's physical and mental functions, from playing and learning to bone and muscle growth. Without adequate carbohydrate intake, your child's body must burn proteins and fats as alternative fuel sources. Prolonged carbohydrate deprivation may interfere with your child's normal growth and development.

[swede]

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

Originally Posted by carlylovesthesims2 

imo this is bloody stupid i have type one diabetes and  without insulin   you  DIE  type one  diabetes is not cured by  raw milk ban me if you like but  to save your child losing limbs sight or other things  think long and hard before   you  try and cure it  type one diabetes is a auto immune diabetes with no known caise ban me if  you like but i couldnt  sit here and  watch a  child suffer

I think you misunderstood a few things
No one is talking about a cure here.
But, if a high real fat diet is followed with lots of nutrient dense foods and plenty of fclo, then NONE of the typical side affects will manifest. No trouble with infections, slowing of neuropathy, and some reversal in as well. Eyes will not go as quickly either. Limb loss occurs because of a high carb diet that requires high usage of insulin.
THe modern medical diet for diabetics is a recipe for disaster.

The modern medical diet (along with "gross" insulin) is the only thing that has kept diabetics alive.

Edited by swede - 6/19/11 at 4:58am

[SleeplessMommy]

You have a huge amount to deal with all at once, with this disease. You will get used to the insulin and giving injections.

This is very important:

"And keep a food diary with blood sugars written in next to everything. You have to be diligent with everything"

We use Myplate d, available (free) at livestrong.com. MyPlate D has a library of nutritional data for almost every food possible and places to record blood sugar levels, insulin injections, etc. It is very very helpful for getting "control" with type 2 and should be great with type 1. I think there may be an iphone app also.  You can print out the myplate graphs and bring them to medical appointments.

[LaughingHyena]

I can relate to the insulin is gross, I was diagnosed type 1 8 months ago, much to my surprise. Till now I have always avoided going to the doctors, and prefer to get over things without drugs. It's quite a challenge to go from that to having 4+ injections a day to keep alive. It also come with recommendations for flu jabs and lots of other things which I didn't even think about before. I'm slowly coming to terms with a more medical lifestyle, needing to inject insulin instead of producing my own is a pain but it's not going to stop me doing anything, and I keep repeating that to myself!

In terms of diet I find if I'm eating lower GI foods I'm better injecting after eating or the insulin works a bit too quickly. I also find it much easier to count the carbs I did eat rather than guess what I'm going to eat. It has taken a few months to sort out my ratios, during that time I found it easiest to stick to a few meals, testing before and after and tweaking as needed. Once I got those sorted I feel free to experiment a bit more with other things.

Hope you are both doing well with adjusting. It's a big learning curve with lots of pressure, but even after this short amount of time I am feeling mush more confident about the whole thing. It really does feel just part of life now.