accuracy of the poll

[dauphinette]

I am in the camp that the old way of moderating was better.  I was shut down and "spanked" by the old system my share of times, but I like the idea that MDC is here to support a very specific lifestyle.

I am concerned that the poll that was recently done on this sub-forum to gauge members feelings towards the new system of (not) moderating (very much at all, no offense to the mods who do the work of moderating.)  I am worried that the infiltration of trolls has and will render the poll totally biased with "members" who do not actually use or support the board voting to slant the results.

I have gone over to trolls with wooden spoons and read the troll thread here and feel very confident in saying that there are people here with malicious intent who would love to see MDC dragged down at the least and crushed at the worst.

Why should MDC cater to non AP/NFL principles, ideals or lifestyles?  Let's bring back a safe place for people who truely care about these things to strive to live in accordance with them....

[xelakann]

I voted I like it the new way and I have no dog in this "troll" fight. For me it is the ability to have open discussion as adults. I do think things have gotten kind of whack, but honestly I think is because of all the over moderation that happened in the past... people now have more freedom and some have taken that too far. Some are finally able to be more authentic, good and bad.

I am definitely and natural minded person but I am also open-minded and interested in open discussion. I also think that "trolls" and Trolls are being confused. And I think that the Trolls are being blamed for issues here that have nothing to do with them. In fact is seems like mostly people are getting upset here and seeking refuge there.

I do however think your question is totally valid and is something I wondered about. But coming from my own perspective I do in general like the new moderation.

[eclipse]

I think it should be kept in mind that there are a lot of people who post in both places. Membership/participation at another board does not erase one's investment in *this* community.

[Honey693]

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

I have gone over to trolls with wooden spoons and read the troll thread here and feel very confident in saying that there are people here with malicious intent who would love to see MDC dragged down at the least and crushed at the worst.

Then you haven't read much over there.

Considering that only 26%, as of now, want to go back to the old way I'd say the "Trolls" are not swaying the votes at all.  I seriously doubt they're taking the effort to come over here and vote either.  From the comments on that thread it seem most posters would not be happy at all if MDC went back to how it was.

[Maedze]

It sounds like you don't know very much about Trolls With Wooden Spoons.  

[Kyamo]

As I write this, there are 36 active users online on Trolls, and 1440 here.  I'm sure the ratio may vary a bit by time of day, but I do not believe there are even close to enough people there to make a big difference in the poll results even if they wanted to.  Plus, a lot of them are banned and couldn't vote anyways.  

FTR, I'm not an active member of Trolls.  I only signed up for curiosity's sake, but I don't think the demonization is deserved.   

[kmeyrick]

Well, even some of the mods have supported less moderation. People on the Trolls board, believe it or not, are also AP/NFL. Most have done extended breast feeding, most are against RIC, practically all do not spank. Have they a beef with MDC, yes, they do. But I think plenty of people here did not like the old UA.

[kmeyrick]

As of right now, 57% of members like the new UA, while a total of 42% want either the old UA back or something in between. Personally, I'd like something in between.

[purslaine]

I did originally wonder if the number of TWWS possibly participating might have skewed the number, however I have dismissed the idea.

Even if all Trolls voted over here, and all voted "no moderation", it should not make much of a difference math wise.  MDC is a huge site, with many members.  

I voted other at the moment - I would like something between the two options available.  In a few weeks I might feel inclined to vote differently.  This non-moderation is new to many of us, and a certain amount of craziness and genuine questionning is ensuing.  It may be that a site this large can self moderate and be respectfull and an advocate of AP/NFL...or it might not be possible.  Time will tell.

I favour respect, discussion and less judgement. 

edited to add:  even if it is a Troll particpation heavy poll - so what?  They are members here too, usually with good intent.  Moreover, I think most MDCers know about the poll.  It was linked at one point in TAO, and is on the home page when I sign in.  If non -Trollers are not voting in droves, so be it.  You don't vote - you don't get a say. 

Edited by purslaine - 6/18/11 at 12:48pm

[Maedze]

An observation:  when parents first make the switch from a punitive discipline style (including harsh punishments, striking, etc.) to a more gentle approach (natural consequences, discussion, no hitting), there will often be several weeks of chaos for everyone      The children will stretch their wings, test the new found system.   They will do things they wouldn't normally do, and the parents will be gritting their teeth thinking, 'ACK, WHAT HAVE I DONE!  THIS GENTLE DISCIPLINE BS IS FOR THE BIRDS!"

But then, people self-regulate.   Once children see that parents have truly committed to stop hurting them, they start finding it themselves to self-moderate.

The former moderation style of MDC was the pure opposite of gentle discipline.  It was harsh, punitive, and extremely nasty.   There is going to be an adjustment period.  That doesn't mean the correct form of moderating is 'wrong'.  It just means people are finally able to breathe without fear.  

[xelakann]

Originally Posted by Maedze 

An observation:  when parents first make the switch from a punitive discipline style (including harsh punishments, striking, etc.) to a more gentle approach (natural consequences, discussion, no hitting), there will often be several weeks of chaos for everyone      The children will stretch their wings, test the new found system.   They will do things they wouldn't normally do, and the parents will be gritting their teeth thinking, 'ACK, WHAT HAVE I DONE!  THIS GENTLE DISCIPLINE BS IS FOR THE BIRDS!"

But then, people self-regulate.   Once children see that parents have truly committed to stop hurting them, they start finding it themselves to self-moderate.

The former moderation style of MDC was the pure opposite of gentle discipline.  It was harsh, punitive, and extremely nasty.   There is going to be an adjustment period.  That doesn't mean the correct form of moderating is 'wrong'.  It just means people are finally able to breathe without fear.  

Yes this. I think that this is what is happening. I think it is like a big pendulum swing. For a long time things were way over to one side and when they let the pendulum go, first (like now) it will swing way over to the other side, then back and forth again in chaos until things settle in the middle.

I do lurk at TWWS. I have for about a year... though I don't post too often (usually in sporadic spurts) and when I do it is the *mostly* the rest of the community.... like sharing pictures of my new kitchen remodel or discussing other family issues. And I find that over there a LARGE number of the people still do care about MDC, I do. And that most of the *snark* that is being referred to is usually because a poster is getting scary, dangerous advice and no one could counter or disagree or debate without breaking the UA's here. So issues and topics were discussed there and often the OP is sent a link and invited over. They aren't being "behind your back", they welcome other views and love it when people come on there to defend their views. Now in general, TWWS spoons is a caring and loving place, but if you are going if you are going to make an outlandish claims you better have links, evidence and support to back you up. Very, very smart women there.

Now if you are just checking on TWWS now, things are a bit chaotic there now too. Droves of MDC members are newly there and are venting (which is normal and okay) and releasing some tension and anger. Soon things will be back to normal there too.

Back to the OP, as I said above, I wondered the same thing about the votes being skewed, but I think the answer is way more complex and as others have said the math just doesn't add up.

[SneakyPie]

One can post at more than one place and still be invested in this one.

I voted STRONGLY for current low moderation, and I am a member at both places.  But look at my join date here, fer cryin' in the night.  Look at my posts on topics like CL.  MANY mothers like being able to actually discuss NFL with adult freedom, regardless of where else we post.

[Adaline'sMama]

OP,
Have you read all 38 pages of The Huge Troll Thread?

It may give you quite a bit of insight. Its not my bag of chips, but it isnt quite as evil as it appears to be at first glance (or even hours of lurking). As far as the accuracy of the poll goes, I think there are a lot of people who dont post that often who are voting. They dont post because they've been over moderated. FWIW, I voted I want more moderation, but honestly I dont want it to be what it used to be.

[dauphinette]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

OP,
Have you read all 38 pages of The Huge Troll Thread?

I don't think I'll ever have enough time to read the whole troll thread, but I did read some of it.  Is it really worth finding the time to read it?

It may give you quite a bit of insight. Its not my bag of chips, but it isnt quite as evil as it appears to be at first glance (or even hours of lurking). As far as the accuracy of the poll goes, I think there are a lot of people who dont post that often who are voting. They dont post because they've been over moderated. FWIW, I voted I want more moderation, but honestly I dont want it to be what it used to be.

I can agree that maybe it shouldn't go back to what it used to be, but I certainly can't stand the idea of it staying as it is now either.

i do think that some of the kinks can be worked out over time but the general tone has changed sooo much...

[dauphinette]

And I think I should clarify.  In my OP I spoke of Trolls and I wasn't clear in my head so it didn't come out clear in the OP.  I have been getting the feeling that their are Trolls here on MDC with long histories on MDC as well as high post counts but they are Trolls none the less and may or may not be associated in anyway with TWWS.

Whats confusing is that a lot of members don't seem to recognize it?  Or do and don't care.....not sure which at this point.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

And I think I should clarify.  In my OP I spoke of Trolls and I wasn't clear in my head so it didn't come out clear in the OP.  I have been getting the feeling that their are Trolls here on MDC with long histories on MDC as well as high post counts but they are Trolls none the less and may or may not be associated in anyway with TWWS.

Whats confusing is that a lot of members don't seem to recognize it?  Or do and don't care.....not sure which at this point.

How are you defining "Troll" here? Because I have seen very few posts by members with long histories and high post counts that seemed designed only to stir things up. I *did* see a thread get out of hand as members responded to a post the wrongly assumed was started by a troll - but the posts on the moderation threads? the Pat Robertson threads? the Mothering stance on HIV denialsim thread? Those all seemed 100% genuine to me.

[ssh]

It seems like some people are just dismissing complaints out of hand and labeling the complainers instead of dealing with the real issues. Real issues like starting thread that encouraged racists to post here. Real issues like homophobic discourse on facebook. Real issues like aligning mothering dot community with a hate group like Pat Robertson's. My disgust and distaste at the recent choices made by this forum have nothing to do with any other forum, but my own personal ethical, political and moral opposition to sanctioning hate and intolerance. I feel AP parenting and gentle discipline go hand in hand with a tolerant pacifist lifestyle that values respect for all. This community has given me a safe place to find encouragement for the respectful peaceful parenting style we have grown to have. That's why I'm kind of waiting, to give the people in charge a chance to make things right instead of just boycotting the place in disgust.

[dauphinette]

The thread on mdc's stance on HIV was clearly designed to stir the pot, and it did and a lot of people who I doubt know much about HIV or AIDS put their two cents in and it was closed, rightly so.

The Pat Robertson stuff started out seemingly genuine but spoiled and rotted into a huge drama.  And apology wasn't, an explanation wasn't enough, nothing was gonna be enough.

I don't know anything about the racist threads. 
 

Originally Posted by eclipse 

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

And I think I should clarify.  In my OP I spoke of Trolls and I wasn't clear in my head so it didn't come out clear in the OP.  I have been getting the feeling that their are Trolls here on MDC with long histories on MDC as well as high post counts but they are Trolls none the less and may or may not be associated in anyway with TWWS.

Whats confusing is that a lot of members don't seem to recognize it?  Or do and don't care.....not sure which at this point.

How are you defining "Troll" here? Because I have seen very few posts by members with long histories and high post counts that seemed designed only to stir things up. I *did* see a thread get out of hand as members responded to a post the wrongly assumed was started by a troll - but the posts on the moderation threads? the Pat Robertson threads? the Mothering stance on HIV denialsim thread? Those all seemed 100% genuine to me.

[dauphinette]

It has all been explained ot me VIA PM so I get it now, I am very clear on what was going on so thanks!

 

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

And I think I should clarify.  In my OP I spoke of Trolls and I wasn't clear in my head so it didn't come out clear in the OP.  I have been getting the feeling that their are Trolls here on MDC with long histories on MDC as well as high post counts but they are Trolls none the less and may or may not be associated in anyway with TWWS.

Whats confusing is that a lot of members don't seem to recognize it?  Or do and don't care.....not sure which at this point.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by dauphinette 

Why should MDC cater to non AP/NFL principles, ideals or lifestyles?  Let's bring back a safe place for people who truely care about these things to strive to live in accordance with them....

I agree. But the way things have been run for the past few years sure haven't made this a "safe" place, as has been discussed ad nauseum.

My join date says '08, but I'm another old-timer who has mostly just been reading the threads discussing moderation. I've been here since '02, but had a different username before. I was disgusted enough with the extreme moderation that I not only stopped coming here for a good while (a year, maybe?), but I closed my account. However, I still found myself looking for info online that would link here, and wound up returning. I post often enough and read a bunch, but I have not felt any sense of belonging or community since coming back here. I always felt like I was being watched. To me, this place felt like one of those super fancy homes where everything is so sanitized and decorated that you are afraid to sit down or touch anything.

I'm glad for less moderation. A good example of "moderate" moderation has already been given in the poll thread. I would be perfectly fine with that type of moderation.