4wkspp: evening clusterfeed is a clusterf*ck

[annaconda]

We are happy to have made the progress we have... the evening is one of the final places formula makes an appearance in our bf life.

Ds is consistent with his night feeds... the morning goes one of two ways (either he sleeps after the 5am feed or he doesnt). I think the afternoon is shaping the evening.

Tonight was the first time I put my foot down and said no emergency 2oz bottle (which is either filled with expressed breastmilk or formula. He is very good on weight so the pc said I can play with things.

Anyway... I nursed for 30 minutes... then tried to calm him to sleep... then nursed side lying for an hour more (i know I'm not producing an hours worth of free flowing milk but he is calm at the breast... when he comes off he cries for.his quick hit of calories.

Anyway, I have been loose in the afternoons, we have some nursing that ends in dozing off before very much is consumed... he likes to drift off at the breast and snack in the afternoons. I guess I'm thinking that is not helping in the evenings because he's not consuming enough nor is he getting a good.afternoon nap. I think this leads to overtired and very hungry at the same time which makes 5-9pm kind of crazy and leads to a 4wo old staying awake for an insanely long time for a baby of that age.

I'm kind of musing as I write and welcome thoughts... I'm not trying to put my 1mo on a clock like schedule but I am tying to think of ways to help us avoid the overwrought evenings we have been having.

I'm not a huge fan of having him on me for hours in the evening. I'm tying to build a good bf relationship but I know myself and I want to create sustainable habits.

[ein328]

I'm a firm believer in breastfeeding relationships between a two-way street (both mama and baby need to have their needs met), but restricting nursing for a 4 week old just sounds a bit odd to me. Cluster feeding is just one of those things that some babies need more than others. As far as habits go, cluster feeding is not what I would consider a habit. He's trying to meet his needs.

Also, from a supply standpoint, not nursing on demand isn't an exceptionally wise idea- especially this early on.

I know it can be rough, but I promise things will smooth out as you work your breastfeeding relationship out. I know that it takes 6-8 weeks for many mamas.

[Bokonon]

What you are describing is absolutely normal and even expected for a 4 week old.  I remember many nights camped out on the couch, nursing my babies for around 3 hours - from 6-9pm without fail.  It was not indicative of a supply problem, but more of a biological, instinctive need for the baby.

Hang in there - I promise this won't last.  Ditch the formula, get comfortable, and let your baby nurse.

[Bokonon]

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

[Marissamom]

both my babies cluster-fed in the evening until about 7 or 8 weeks. cluster-feeding is pretty important, it lets the baby get a lot of fatty hind-milk before bed so that they can have a longer stretch of sleep (longer usually being 4-5 hours) and helps prepare your breasts to make enough milk for the next day. once I started planning my evening around the fact that I would be nursing for hours straight things went a lot smoother. and know that in just a few weeks the cluster-feeding will stop. 

[annaconda]

Thanks mamas.

I had a supply dip with the move to breastfeeding almost exclusively because of how much I was pumped before. Basically I made a mistake in transition ha that caused the dip. So now I'm finally ready to make a stand against the evening supplementation. I just was not ready to nurse this much before due to sore nipples.

Thanks for.the kellymom page. I'm sharing with Dh. He is also much more prone to call for the formula. He thinks he is helping with this. A few times when I've gone to take a nap and specifically said PLEASE WAKE ME if he is hungry again (implied: don't give him formula) he has given him formula in the name of getting me more sleep. Which then I wake up and have to pump anyway only to find that he has given Ds a bottle.

I know its his way of being involved... I just have to get really clear with him that it is not helping in the long run.

[Llyra]

Cluster feeding is baby's way of building up your supply. For this process to work, baby has to be allowed to do it. In my opinion, four weeks old is too young to be thinking about long-term habits. You're not even through the six-week growth spurt, yet.

It can be helpful to know that the peak of infant fussiness is between 4 and 6 weeks-- during this time, it is common and normal for baby to be extremely fussy, want to nurse nearly constantly, and have meltdown periods in the evening. It is not necessarily related to hunger, although this is a period of extremely rapid growth and development. It also has to do with baby's awakening nervous system, which means that baby is becoming more alert and aware of the world-- which can be horribly overwhelming to a new little one. It's difficult for them to wind down and sleep, and they often find it impossible to settle to sleep without their main source of comfort-- the breast. They don't just nurse for food. For a newborn, the breast is home and comfort and refuge from the big world.

And all that fussiness and wakefulness means lots of stimulation for the breasts, at a time when baby is growing and developing rapidly and needs the nutrition. Giving formula, even in small quantities, can undermine that natural process. (Now, for a baby who's not gaining weight, or filling diapers, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend some cautious supplementation. A hungry baby should be fed. But it sounds like baby is gaining well now, and the health care provider is on board with stopping supplementing. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding about that.)

So my advice-- gently tell DH that his helpfulness is misplaced. Take baby to bed with you, and let baby nurse as much as baby wants. This time is over so quickly. There's plenty of time later to worry about habits.

If you absolutely must get away from baby for a bit (and believe, me I get that-- totally) it might be less detrimental to the nursing relationship to introduce a pacifier, than to continue giving bottles. I would be watching weight gain carefully, of course, so that if baby seemed to be sucking on the paci instead of nursing, and stopped gaining well, you'd want to stop the paci for awhile. But sometimes, after a few hours of baby hanging on the nips, the paci can give you the chance to go to the bathroom and have a bite to eat-- used in moderation, like that, I think a pacifier is unlikely to be harmful.

[annaconda]

Thanks for the support! We are into our second day without any extras! Woohoo! I'm going to try to make it all the way to Sunday afternoon when I'm leaving for my first two or three hour stretch.

The evening tonight was way better - more nursing less fussing because I got Ds to sleep better today.

[penstamon]

DS2 clusterfeeds every night since birth practically from around 7pm-9pm and sometimes also in the late morning.  It can be rough on me and painful after awhile, but he will grow out of it.  My sympathy to you- congrats on your progress!