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post #81 of 180


Well... I don't think I'm old yet; but I agree with velochic. She's spot on; as usual. 

 

I am totally aghast at this thread. OP, you said that your MIL is being rude and critical of you. She doesn't not treat you with respect. Exactly how have you treated her?

 

taking someones help as a gift or a loan and not even acknowledging it... that's disrepectful

taking thousands of dollars of money from someone; and then resenting them because you paid their portion of their takeout bill when they came to visit you! That's something else.

 

I'm not saying that she has a right to treat you like crap. But you don't have the right to be mean to her either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post




Your reality is different than others', though.  I can't even begin to state my opinion without being offensive, so I won't even try.  Seriously.  Your lack of appreciation for what they continue to do for you financially is almost vulgar.  And yes, I think it's an entitlement issue for kids like yourself.  I'm on your MIL's side here (and don't really care if anyone accuses me of that made-up word, "ageism") -- if I had a DIL that resented me for all of my help (I'm old enough to have a DIL), I'd probably make some passive-aggressive comments, too.  Buy her some damned orange juice and let her eat your yogurt.  Maybe if you did these things gladly, your MIL wouldn't have to feel so defensive.  They have a right to spend their golden years doing whatever they want... not supporting you.  This is an issue where there is no way to know what is the chicken and what is the egg.  Have you considered your MIL's feelings at all?  Maybe if you do that first, her passive-aggressive comments go away.  Perhaps she picked up your "what we have is ours and what you have is ours" attitude from the beginning.

 

ETA:  What I'm saying that even "your" side of the story makes you out to be ungrateful.  I can't imagine how your in-laws are feeling.  They tried to help with a house, they got the short end of the stick, now you resent them eating your yogurt.  There is a disconnect that sounds very, very selfish... on your part.  I absolutely can see how your MIL might feel hurt by your actions.  You've let them take financial blow after financial blow on your part and you still resent that they are retired (and will need to live off of that retirement for another 30 years hopefully) and saving money when you can't.  It's really such an immature attitude.



 

post #82 of 180
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmati View Post


Well... I don't think I'm old yet; but I agree with velochic. She's spot on; as usual. 

 

I am totally aghast at this thread. OP, you said that your MIL is being rude and critical of you. She doesn't not treat you with respect. Exactly how have you treated her?

 

taking someones help as a gift or a loan and not even acknowledging it... that's disrepectful

taking thousands of dollars of money from someone; and then resenting them because you paid their portion of their takeout bill when they came to visit you! That's something else.

 

I'm not saying that she has a right to treat you like crap. But you don't have the right to be mean to her either.



 



 

post #83 of 180
Thread Starter 

y

 

 


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:19am
post #84 of 180
Thread Starter 

o


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:19am
post #85 of 180

I have a few thoughts.

 

One is on the guest thing. I agree with the consensus. Either you can afford to host them in the manner you choose (beans and rice for dinner, water to drink, discount coffee, etc.) or you just say you can't host them. But you'll have to be direct. "We really love to come together as a family, but our grocery budget is set and when you're here you have to eat the way we do/you might be more comfortable staying somewhere else). For me, I'd rather have everyone over and have a big side of rice than not have everyone over, but that's me.

 

Two is on the little comments. This is not going to change or go away even if you win the lottery tomorrow (although don't buy tickets :)) so yeah, emotionally you have to find your way to handle it. Some people will do it directly, others will let it roll. You need to find your way. I sometimes find the best way to handle it is with a bit of feigned surprise, "are you asking me about my grocery budget?" 

 

Three though, is your financial situation. I see a lot of red flags in your comments and I'd suggest it's time to restructure your thinking. (Because it will cut down on your resentment and stress.) I like "Til Debt Do Us Part" on slice.ca (I don't know if American IPs are blocked) as a kind of antidote to consumer thinking, but there's Suze Orman, Your Money Or Your Life, Dave Ramsay - all kinds of books out there.

 

When you say something like "it makes more sense to buy than to rent" (while in college!!!) and then you say you're drowning in debt, it reads like you don't have any idea how to build a budget that makes sense.  Because no, it doesn't make sense for the vast majority of people to buy a house or a condo while not making any money in school and take on the financial responsibilities of home ownership.

 

Not because in an ideal world they wouldn't build equity, but because chances are they will not be able to maintain that kind of lifestyle and will end up over their heads in debt, which it sounds like you have. That's just one example. I know you're addressing it and I know your DH's job changed. But this is the kind of thinking that is going to make your life really hard if it doesn't change.

post #86 of 180
Thread Starter 

nm


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:20am
post #87 of 180

But you don't mind feeding your parents?

 

I don't understand having a child in lessons that the parent cannot afford. We just wouldn't do that. When my kids were little and money was tight for us, they did a lot of free things and cheap programs through parks and rec. It would NEVER have occurred to me to ask my parents or ILs for money for my kids to take lessons.

 

(Because we learned to control ourselves financially and got out of debt, we can afford more expensive things for them now in the teen years)

 

Part of the reason that I don't follow your story is because your MIL sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant person. I wouldn't want to take money from her or talk to her about my finances. But you and your DH seem to do just that, over and over and over.

 

When you take money from someone, even if it's $19 a month for half your child's violin lesson, they *often* start to feel like they have a right to criticize how you spend your money. It's human nature. And your MIL's basic nature isn't nice, so it would make sense to NOT put yourself in that position over and over.  (And you guys have taken THOUSANDS of dollars from them)

 

Dealing with her being critical is separate issue, but until you and your DH act like grownups and only have those things that you cannot afford without their help, you don't have a leg to stand on. Life really isn't any harder for the two of you than it is for other people. You guys are spending money on things that my DH and I and our kids did without when we couldn't afford them.

post #88 of 180
Thread Starter 

nm


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:20am
post #89 of 180

I can understand your frustration, but I think my inclination would be to change my lifestyle a bit so I didn't have to deal with the stress of it all.  In your ILs shoes, the house thing would bother me.  You kind of left them holding the bag- and I do understand the resentment for that.  They bought the house for you with a verbal agreement that xyz was the plan.  It fell through and they still have this extra responsibility you walked away from.  If you had purchased it yourselves, you admit you would have made more effort to stay or find another way, but you didn't and you walked away.  can't you see why they might be resentful? 

 

No, it doesn't excuse her rude behavior but I can see the origin of some of it. 

 

As for the rest, it really sounds like you need to do some financial restructuring within your own lives so you don't feel such a crunch.  It takes work and self control, but it is possible.  I paid off about 40K in debt over three years while earning about 25K/year as a single parent.  We didn't ever have organic anything in the house, we shopped at big box stores and did anything we could to save a buck, but it was well worth it.  I hear some of the things you are saying and see indications that you aren't willing to make the changes you need to for financial security in the long run.

 

For now- even budgeting $20 a paycheck towards an 'in-laws' fund or a fun fund so this isn't a source of ongoing stress when they do visit.  You might also use this fund for a spur of the moment 'let's go have a picnic in the park!' or something of that sort.  We started this in my family when we were living paycheck to paycheck, and it really made a difference in terms of quality of life. If you know that cushion is there, and you have planned for it, it really isn't a big issue when it comes up.  You can't change her behavior, but you can change how you plan for it. 

 

Finally- have your husband talk with his dad to explain how difficult it is when your MIL is there and these things come up.  Have him act as a buffer so it doesn't keep happening. 

post #90 of 180
Thread Starter 

nm


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:20am
post #91 of 180
Thread Starter 

nm


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:21am
post #92 of 180

One thing you might want to consider doing is posting your budget in frugality and finances.  Those folks can make a dollar STREEEEETCH!  and then some. Sometimes another set of eyes will see things differently and you'll effect a change that makes a huge difference. 

 

One question I have revolves around why you have so much college debt, and what you can do to get rid of it.  What are your degrees in? There are  a umber of ways to help eliminate that- but they vary depending on your field.  

 

Also, don't budget based on bonuses.  Budget based on salary alone and toss the bonuses into savings and emergency fund. 

post #93 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post

One thing you might want to consider doing is posting your budget in frugality and finances.  Those folks can make a dollar STREEEEETCH!  and then some. Sometimes another set of eyes will see things differently and you'll effect a change that makes a huge difference. 

 

yeahthat.gif Maybe you really don't have anywhere to cut back but most of the time a fresh set of eyes on the detailed budget can really help!
post #94 of 180

Honestly, I find that taking money from family never ends well, since it's almost inevitable the family members see it as entitling them to judge your financial decisions forever and ever.  My suggestion would be to post your budget over in Finances & Frugality to have everyone take a look at it and problem shoot with you - even the best budget can be tweaked to be better!  I would also set up a re-payment schedule for some of the money from the ILs, I think you said you originally planned to repay them for the time you spent in the house?  Or the down payment on the car?  Whatever verbal agreement you had, I would develop a payment plan for, even if it is five dollars a month.  Show them you are responsible and independent and be upfront about the fact you plan to pay them back, and not take more money.   It's up to you, but I personally found this to really help me have relationships that were equal and respectful on all sides.

 

Your MIL sounds like a very judgmental and mean spirited person, and it sounds like you and dh need to do some serious limit setting.  They can't just show up, you guys have to feel comfortable telling them no.  No, that's not a good time for a visit.  No, we're not eating out tonight, feel free to go ahead or stay home for beans and rice with us!  No, we don't want the house/down payment on the car/the money you deposited.  Thanks, but no thanks.  You have to take all the secrecy out of the money issue.  If you're going out for coffee, don't pay for the bill and then quietly resent it, or wait for MIL to step up.  Go in saying "So I'll make sure to get separate checks."  I like a PP's suggestion of shopping before they come. 

post #95 of 180

Money and judgments regarding money are hot-topic items.  Tensions have risen in this thread.  Please note that I am monitoring the thread for any derailment, and perhaps it's time for everyone to take a step back and cool down.  I also want to take a moment to remind everyone that to "post or delete content with the intention of disrupting discussions" is a direct violation of the User Agreement.  If you have not already, please read and become familiar with the User Agreement.  You can find it *here.*

 

 

 

post #96 of 180

Your MIL sounds like a very difficult person to deal with. 

 

In theory, I completely agree with you that money should have nothing to do with how you treat people. In practice, though, the two seem to get intertwined quite a bit -- some people (like your ILs) believe that they have a say in other people's lives once gifts of money have changed hands. So, whether it's fair or not, with these particular people the quickest way to total autonomy in your lives is to sever all financial ties. You'll feel free. 

post #97 of 180
Thread Starter 


 nm


Edited by haleyelianasmom - 6/25/11 at 8:21am
post #98 of 180


Your ILs CHOSE to help you out financially, it was their choice to do it so it's not your fault/problem, it was their CHOICE. This is true. But you also CHOOSE to buy things you would not ordinarily have in the house when they visit. That is not their fault. It is your choice. Choose different, if you don't like your choices. If they can't be upset with you for their financial choices that involved what they did/do for you, you can't be upset about your financial choices involving what you did/do for them.

 

 

post #99 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by haleyelianasmom View Post

I'll look into the books and yeah, it's something we're definitely working on.  We have been eating on the cheap, I'm looking for a second job, no cable or extras, no dates, no movie theatres, etc.  Actually, the condo idea came from a woman I knew who did the same, owned a teeny cheap condo while in school, then was able to sell it after she was done and bought a house.  Now we are talking years ago so obviously things have changed since then (we were looking in... 2005-ish?) but at the time, house prices were inflating so much that we decided it made sense.  And then when the in-laws took over the idea and ran with it, we stepped back.  In retrospect, we should have insisted they NOT do that and should have continued renting, but they ran with it and like I said, the way the market was back then, it seemed to make sense.  I figured we would either buy it from them or they would sell it elsewhere, either way making backk back all if not more of the money they bought it for.  win-win.  And being that they are extremely cautious with money and have a financial advisor they work closely with, they obviously thought so, too.  But yeah, now we all agree it was a crappy idea and especialy had we known things would change like they did, we would have never done it.  Yes, there is a lot of regret there from all of us.  And now we own a much smaller place that was much less than what we were approved for.  So yeah, we are trying to make improvements.  We can't go back and change the past, but we can change the future.
 



 


Absolutely. But I'm just gently saying that I think a lot of your resentment of your ILs is coming out of your stress with money, and to get rid of that stress you need to keep on the path you're going to get rid of the debt. And from things you've posted, I don't think you quite are getting it. (Not that it is easy to get.) I think you are sabotaging yourself with things like the yoghurt and that's why when someone else comments on it, it sticks with you a long time.

post #100 of 180


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aridel View Post

Honestly, I find that taking money from family never ends well, since it's almost inevitable the family members see it as entitling them to judge your financial decisions forever and ever.  My suggestion would be to post your budget over in Finances & Frugality to have everyone take a look at it and problem shoot with you - even the best budget can be tweaked to be better! 


yeahthat.gif  I really agree with both these statements.

 

In some ways, my DH and I would LOVE to be able to help our kids financial when they are adults and just starting out. At this point, we are very solid financially and it should only improve. To me, it would be especially lovely to pay for things for our grandkids that we couldn't afford for our kids when they were small. Our kids started at a wonderful private school last year and we all love it, and DH and has said that if the kids stay in town when they are grown, he would like to pay for the grandkids to go to the same school. But I can see the exact same thing happening that happens in so many families, "if we need to pay for X for you, then why do you have money to spend on y?"  We are fairly mellow, nice people, but I can see how easily it would be to fall into that. It seems like the most natural path.

 

It's been a while since I hung out on the fiance form, but I learned a great deal from it. We also used the Dave Ramsey stuff. DH and I used to be really stupid with money. Our situation was the opposite -- we had school done and paid for and both had good jobs. We quickly went from 2 incomes and no kids to 1 income and 2 kids, and it just didn't work well for awhile.

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