**Trigger**Protecting Child from wrong babysitter- what are a mother's rights with shared custody

[marthawashington]

I have been separated from my boyfriend for about 6 months and we share a 34 month year old girl.  I have tried to get him to agree that he should not take our daughter down to the OC from LA to have his mother and new stepfather babysit our daughter.  There are a few reasons I feel nervous about her safety, including a big house, an ungated pool, etc.  But most importantly, his mother said she was raped as a middle-aged woman and never reported it to the police.  I do not know her new husband and my instinct says that he's a pretty dark guy.  I like this women but this is someone who has a history of not reporting sexual crimes.  What if my daughter is left alone with some strange man. Don't I have a right to say who can cares for my daughter and feel comfortable about where she is when I'm not around?

Does anyone have advice or even a referral to find out my legal rights?

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by marthawashington 

I have been separated from my boyfriend for about 6 months and we share a 34 month year old girl.  I have tried to get him to agree that he should not take our daughter down to the OC from LA to have his mother and new stepfather babysit our daughter.  There are a few reasons I feel nervous about her safety, including a big house, an ungated pool, etc.  ;But most importantly, his mother said she was raped as a middle-aged woman and never reported it to the police.  I do not know her new husband and my instinct says that he's a pretty dark guy.  I like this women but this is someone who has a history of not reporting sexual crimes.  What if my daughter is left alone with some strange man. Don't I have a right to say who can cares for my daughter and feel comfortable about where she is when I'm not around?

Does anyone have advice or even a referral to find out my legal rights?

I think it's really awful that you're judging her for this. I can't even believe this is a concern for you. There are plenty of women who have been raped and not reported it, myself included, that would never dream of not reporting the sexual abuse of a child. You've also never met her husband - how can you be making assumptions about him? I'm really baffled. The *only* thing I understand a concern about is the pool.

[Pynki]

With all due respect.  You are wrong to do this.  Inability to report your own assault does not in any way place your child in harms way.  Most survivors of sexual assault do not report them because of the repercussions they face, and the likelihood of disbelief by everyone including the police, and the the courts. 

You are placing a lot of inaccurate judgement on the victim of a sexual assault. 

[Dacks]

I cannot even comprehend how you would think a survivor of sexual assault deserves a guilt trip about her decision to not report her assault. In fact, I might throw up if I try to see it from your point of view, I really might. Maybe she didn't report because she thought some judgmental people would question her morality or her motives or her decency as a human being. Maybe she thought they would blame her for associating with such a 'dark' man in the first place, that she chose to be around someone who would assault her. I guess her judgment in men must be so awful that she would marry a rapist, too? 

There we go. I knew it would happen. My next thought was so awful that instead of typing it, I just threw up instead. You might want to put a trigger warning if you are going to insult and imply blame to rape survivors in your post.

[crunchy_mommy]

I agree, as a survivor of multiple physical & sexual assaults, I can tell you reporting abuse of yourself, and as an adult, is COMPLETELY different from reporting abuse of a child. I wouldn't hesitate to report abuse of a child & would do everything in my power to protect said child as well. But reporting my own abuse... some of it I CHOSE not to report because I wanted my privacy, and because I wanted to protect myself (reporting as an adult is NOT always the safest decision... there is no CPS to just whisk you away to safety...), or because I knew the local authorities would brush things under the table & make it all more difficult in the long run. Please don't judge an adult for not reporting her own rape. That's 100% her choice and I'm sure she made the decision that was best FOR HER. It does NOT make her more dangerous to your child -- and many of us who have been sexually abused are especially in-tune to abuse and could probably read the warning signs even more quickly because of our experiences.

I would be worried about the ungated pool though.

[oaktreemama]

Your priorities are completely skewed. The pool is the only issue here. That truly is dangerous and I would not allow my toddler at a home that had a unsecured pool.

You don't know the husband so am not sure how you can intuit he is dark? What does that mean anyways? And to question the MIL's ability to care for your daughter because she was raped? Step back and really think about this because you don't come across as being very sympathetic or understanding to what must have been a terrible event in this women's life.

[eclipse]

I'm coming back to this thread because it's really been bothering me. OP, if you'd like to be educated about why a woman might not report a sexual assault and why that doesn't automatically make her someone who is dangerous to be around your child, I'm sure there are quite a few of us who are willing to have an open conversation with you about it. Attitudes like the ones you expressed in your OP can be very hurtful to sexual assault survivors and contribute to the very lack of reporting that you find so incomprehensible.

[childsplay]

Originally Posted by marthawashington 

I have been separated from my boyfriend for about 6 months and we share a 34 month year old girl.  I have tried to get him to agree that he should not take our daughter down to the OC from LA to have his mother and new stepfather babysit our daughter.  There are a few reasons I feel nervous about her safety, including a big house, an ungated pool, etc.  But most importantly, his mother said she was raped as a middle-aged woman and never reported it to the police.  I do not know her new husband and my instinct says that he's a pretty dark guy.  I like this women but this is someone who has a history of not reporting sexual crimes.  What if my daughter is left alone with some strange man. Don't I have a right to say who can cares for my daughter and feel comfortable about where she is when I'm not around?

Does anyone have advice or even a referral to find out my legal rights?

That's offensive. Your basically saying that because she didn't report the fact that she was raped that she's irresponsible and apt to let strange men look after your daughter? Wow, that poor woman, you don't know what her situation was like back then, and why she didn't report it, so you using it as a weapon against her is just victimizing her all over again.

And what does her husband have to do with it? My advice would be to actually meet him first before making assumptions about his character, and tell her she needs a pool gate before your DD visits - because that's the only legit issue here.

[Lolagirl]

I don't mean to dogpile here, but one of my closest friends was raped many years ago and never reported it, so this post really gets to me on a very personal level. 

I would really recommend that you take a step back and think long and hard about your opinion of your former MIL.  Her being victimized in such an awful way was undoubtedly very traumatizing, and there are many reasons why she may have chosen to not report it.  It says absolutely nothing about her character or her ability to be a loving and responsible care giver/ grandmother that she opted to not report her rape, and there is absolutely zero reason to judge her personally because she is a rape survivor.  Rape happens for reasons that have nothing to do with the victim and everything to do with the sick and horrible person doing the raping of that victim.  Unfortunately, our society has a very long way to go in understanding that reality, and until such time as we do there will remain many, many rape survivors who do not report their rape or push for criminal consequences for the rapist who violated them. 

As far as your rights as a parent are concerned (and of course none of this should be construed as actual legal advice,) I really don't believe that you have a legal leg to stand on if you try to get in the way of your ex allowing his mother to visit or even to take care of your daughter  during his custodial time with her.  I also agree with the PPs who have pointed out that the ungated pool sounds like the only real reason for concern where Grandma is concerned, and I would suggest that you try to have a straight forward and non-confrontational conversation with your ex to see what, if any, precautions are being taken to prevent your daughter from accidentally accessing the pool and getting hurt. 

Edited by Lolagirl - 6/21/11 at 12:08pm

[marthawashington]

Okay, I see i hit a hot button.  Please educate me then rather than insulting.  It only closes the conversation.  This should be a good venue for you to educate someone like me and others afraid to speak up. Some of you have been victims of sexual abuse so you're more educated.  Why don't you spread the education instead?  The insults don't hurt me... I just think I've hurt you and I feel bad about that.  Here are my questions... I don't mean to ignorant and rude.  I am really coming from a place of sincerity.  Or, would it be better if I just repress my feeling and thoughts and act on fear rather than knowledge because I'm afraid to offend people?

1) When you don't report sexual abuse, why is that not a responsibility to stop someone from doing it again?... to someone who's vulnerable and doesn't have the age or education to do something about it or process it.  A middle-aged women is a victim, of course, and I'm not blaming the victim for the crime that was done to her.  But, isn't at least getting something on record with the police better than nothing.  So, if another crime happens, he can't get away with it so easily. And, as you see there are a lot of victims of sexual crimes... is it wrong for me to not want my daughter to stay with a stranger I don't know.  

2) I shouldn't have said a "dark" man without explaining.  His comments that have come out of his mouth are questionable and I don't have a good feeling about him... call it mother's intuition.  And, even if he seemed like a nice guy, isn't that what they all say, 'seems like a nice guy."  All the stories of my friends being molested as children seem to be a family member or family friend that everyone loved.  Don't I have the right as a mom to say she shouldn't stay at some guys house without her father there?  

[Lolagirl]

Honestly, I thought my previous comment was not at all judgmental or mean, I certainly didn't intend it to sound that way. 

I'm not personally a rape survivor, but as I stated earlier I have friends who are.  I also used to work for the State's Attorney helping to prosecute sex crimes from time to time, so that is where I'm personally coming from in this discussion.  Getting victims of sexual violence to report and move forward with prosecuting their rapists is one of the hardest things in the world to accomplish for many reasons.  Many rape victims are made to feel like they are at fault or otherwise responsible for their own victimization, and their rapists often use force and intimidation during their crimes, which in turn leaves the victim terrified to do anything that would bring attention or negative consequences on the rapist for fear for their own safety and/or the safety of their family and loved ones.  To make matters worse, rape victims are expected to repeatedly share the most intimate details of how they were raped and what the rapist did to her to violate her, which of course many women do not want to have to do (imagine having to explain that you were forcibly penetrated and maybe even sodomized by someone against your will, over and over again, to numerous people who are all strangers to you, and worry about what they think about you now that they know such a personal and intimate thing about you.)  Many women fear being forever identified primarily as a rape victim, as someone who was sexually violated in a horrible way, by their neighbors, friends, spouses and children, and even by total strangers who may have heard about on tv or read about it in the paper. 

I can't see how anyone wouldn't understand why a women would never want to subject herself to that, especially among older women of past generations where such a thing was considered a permanent strike against that women's personal integrity and worth as a person.  There are many cultures still where a woman is made an outcast if she is raped, regardless of how horribly she was violated, and even here in the States there are similar cultural assumptions made about rape victims. 

Please, I urge you to do some research on topics like rape culture and rape apologism, I can't see how it won't open your eyes to why rape victims should not be subject to the sort of scrutiny you seem to be trying to place on your former MIL.

[hjdmom24]

I guess I am in the minority here. My mother was sexually assulted and did not report it. Years later my sister and I were sexually assulted and my mother found out but did nothing to report it or protect us. I guess knowing the reason why your ex's mother did not report it might help. It it was from shame or embarrassment then I would be concerned that she would keep it to herself if it happened to your child due to the same embarrassment. Not saying everyone would make the same choices my mother did but it does happen and if your mommy radar is going off then I think it is vaild to be concerned.

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by marthawashington 

I have been separated from my boyfriend for about 6 months and we share a 34 month year old girl.  I have tried to get him to agree that he should not take our daughter down to the OC from LA to have his mother and new stepfather babysit our daughter.  There are a few reasons I feel nervous about her safety, including a big house, an ungated pool, etc.  But most importantly, his mother said she was raped as a middle-aged woman and never reported it to the police.  I do not know her new husband and my instinct says that he's a pretty dark guy.  I like this women but this is someone who has a history of not reporting sexual crimes.  What if my daughter is left alone with some strange man. Don't I have a right to say who can cares for my daughter and feel comfortable about where she is when I'm not around?

Does anyone have advice or even a referral to find out my legal rights?

the first thing you should do is file for custody and get a court order that outlines who spends how much time with her.  it sounds like you want what is called "right of first refusal".  this means that if he isn't going to be with her, you would be first in line to take her.  he would have to offer her to you before asking his mom to watch her.

edited to add: without a court order for custody, as her father, he could take her and not bring her back to you.  this is really important.  whether you want sole custody or 50-50 or whatever, you need to file asap.

regarding the pool, figure out how to report the code violation, so that it will be enforced and they will have to gate the pool. 

if you're really concerned about his mom's boyfriend, maybe you could get a background check.  otherwise, i don't know what else you can do about your dd spending time around him.

Originally Posted by marthawashington 

Okay, I see i hit a hot button.  Please educate me then rather than insulting.  It only closes the conversation.  This should be a good venue for you to educate someone like me and others afraid to speak up. Some of you have been victims of sexual abuse so you're more educated.  Why don't you spread the education instead?  The insults don't hurt me... I just think I've hurt you and I feel bad about that.  Here are my questions... I don't mean to ignorant and rude.  I am really coming from a place of sincerity.  Or, would it be better if I just repress my feeling and thoughts and act on fear rather than knowledge because I'm afraid to offend people?

1) When you don't report sexual abuse, why is that not a responsibility to stop someone from doing it again?... to someone who's vulnerable and doesn't have the age or education to do something about it or process it.  A middle-aged women is a victim, of course, and I'm not blaming the victim for the crime that was done to her.  But, isn't at least getting something on record with the police better than nothing.  So, if another crime happens, he can't get away with it so easily. And, as you see there are a lot of victims of sexual crimes... is it wrong for me to not want my daughter to stay with a stranger I don't know.  

2) I shouldn't have said a "dark" man without explaining.  His comments that have come out of his mouth are questionable and I don't have a good feeling about him... call it mother's intuition.  And, even if he seemed like a nice guy, isn't that what they all say, 'seems like a nice guy."  All the stories of my friends being molested as children seem to be a family member or family friend that everyone loved.  Don't I have the right as a mom to say she shouldn't stay at some guys house without her father there?  

1. NO. i guess that's the way you see it and the way you believe you would handle it if you found yourself in that position, but no, it is not the victim's responsibility to stop a criminal from committing more crimes.

2. again, it sounds like you need to take this to court.  your gut may be right - i don't know.  but if i'm understanding the situation correctly, you have been voluntarily sending dd with her father, knowing that he then uses his mother for childcare (why does he take her if he's not going to spend that time with her?).  it would be really hard to legally put a stop to that based on your gut, but you have to start somewhere, and i would start with trying to get right of first refusal.

[eclipse]

The reasons I did not report:
I didn't want to be blamed.
I had been drinking.
I had had some consensual sexual contact with the man.
He had a job closely related to law enforcement.
I did not want to feel re-victimized by a rape exam.
Due to the nature of the rape, there was unlikely to be any physical evidence supporting my side of the story (again, he knew enough about law enforcement to use a condom, to put me in the shower afterwards, etc)
It took awhile to mentally process what had happened to me.
I wanted to be able to live as though it never happened (not possible, but the desire was there)
I was traumatized. I'll repeat that. I was traumatized. I was not capable of reporting. I was in shock. Trauma.tized.


As to the question of "Isn't it a victim's responsibility to prevent it from happening to someone else?" No. No it's not. That said, I live every day with the knowledge that some other woman might have suffered in part because I didn't report, even though I *know* it's unlikely to have made a difference anyway. Conviction rates on rape are very, very low, especially date rape. But hearing/reading things like your post bring back all that guilt and make me feel like crap about it.

[eclipse]

If you have real concerns about her husband, you should figure out what they are, address them, do a background check, etc. Honestly, though, given your attitude towards your child's grandma being a rape survivor, I'm not all that inclined to trust your judgment on it.

You might be able to include right of first refusal in your custody agreement, but then you must keep in mind that it would be true for you too. If you wanted to go out for an evening, you wouldn't be able to just hire a sitter without offering him parenting time. There's also usually a time limit involved - like if your child will be in someone else's care for X number of hours, you're required to offer the other parent the time. But if your ex is leaving your dd for a half hour while he runs to the store or something, that's not going to help you.

[Pynki]

I was not in any way rude to you with my post either.  Maybe one post was. 

People don't report their assaults for many reasons already listed by others and my self, but I'll repeat them.

1. they're in shock
2. they fear not being believed for any number of reasons.
3. If they are believed, and it actually GOES to court - SUCH! a low number of REPORTED cases actually even make it that far then they have to worry about being put on trial as the victim.  Nuts and sluts is still the defense used by most defense attorney's in such cases. 
4. All of that putting their PERSONAL life up for inspection by every goddamned person in the community for having a crime perpetrated against them. 
5. Then having decision making skills picked apart and judged.  What could they have done different.  What did they do that left them open for such an attack.  Did they in some way instigate it.  Apparently as evidenced by your post they are judged regardless of which decision they make. 

[Agatha_Ann]

The man who molested me as a child was a major client of my parent's business. Even as a little girl, I understood how much of our income depended on this man. I couldn't take that away.

The person who raped me in high school I did report. I had a full rape kit. Two witnesses that walked in when it was happening who gave statements and were willing to testify. The District Attorney however, said that I consented when I accepted a ride home with this person. This information was delivered to my home along with a threat that any further "harassment" of this person would result in charges on me.

When that person showed up at my house later and did it again, I figured what's the point.

I don't see how this makes me a danger to children. This thread literally makes me sick.

[chaoticzenmom]

Another reason that a person might not report is the desire to move on.  To decide if you want to report something, you have to have the time and energy to devote to it.  In highschool, I chose not to press charges against my abuser because I was ready to move on to college and wanted nothing holding me back.  I did make a phone call to his probation officer with the help of my high school counselor, but that was the extent of my involvement in whatever happened next.  I had my own life to live.

I would be very bothered by the pool though.  I'm not sure I could sleep at night knowing that my child was at a house with an unsecured pool (or any pool if I didn't know the level of responibility of the owner).  If I were you, I"d start doing swim lessons ASAP just in case.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by Agatha_Ann 

The man who molested me as a child was a major client of my parent's business. Even as a little girl, I understood how much of our income depended on this man. I couldn't take that away.

The person who raped me in high school I did report. I had a full rape kit. Two witnesses that walked in when it was happening who gave statements and were willing to testify. The District Attorney however, said that I consented when I accepted a ride home with this person. This information was delivered to my home along with a threat that any further "harassment" of this person would result in charges on me.

When that person showed up at my house later and did it again, I figured what's the point.

I don't see how this makes me a danger to children. This thread literally makes me sick.

That's horrible:(  I'm so sorry that happened to you. 

[marthawashington]

It makes me sad to hear so many of these stories you shared with me.  I can see how this is something you have to deal with a lifetime.  I have no idea what it means to be raped but I was touched inappropriately by an adult as a child and it really only took one second.  I hope you understand as a mother how my first priority is to protect my child and not put her in a situation where a stranger can be intimate with her.  I guess the issue really is that it's not realistic that I know MIL's husband even if we go out to lunch a few times.  He didn't raise her father so her father doesn't really know him or the relationship he has with his mother.  

Maybe the "not reporting a sexual" crime is or is not relevant.  However, what can we say to the women who is in the minority who says her mother didn't report the crime for herself and allowing it unknowingly happen to her children.  Should that be the legacy we leave?  I don't know what I would do if I was a rape victim.  I did not mean to judge.  I am educated enough about rape culture that I thought society was more politically correct about not blaming the victim.  What a difficult life it must be to not be able to talk about it, repress something so eggregious done to you!  Being a minority, I guess I'm already used to being stigmatized and fighting for my rights so I come from that point-of-view of not being ashamed of who I am and that race does not define me.  It seems like being a rape vicitim doesn't have to wear you either; but at some point isn't it better that we as women open up about it, so that rape victims don't get stigmatized, and make it safer for the next generation.  It requires sacrifice and it's hard.  And, many do not want to be the "poster child" for a cause.  But,  how can being "in the closet" about it help anyone including the rape victim?  You can never have closure, but you can raise awareness instead of feeling like you have something to hide.  This, of course, is just my opinion and that's what these forums are for... to open dialogue.  If it hurts to see someone write about it, should you be blaming that person for opening up a bad experience for you... for making you feel like a victim again?  What do I tell my daughter about rape awareness?  The statistics are not good.  So, shouldn't I be concerned about what environment I put her in... allow her to be possibly left alone with a stranger?