Seeking Research (or Personal Experience) that is Anti-Homeschool - Page 9

[Storm Bride]

re: Parental attitudes to education...

My mom was pursuing her university degree while I was in high school (she got her Bachelor's a year before I graduated). While she didn't love it, she did speak very positively about the difference it would make in her earning power, ability to support herself, etc. She also put a lot of her parenting energy into trying to get us to turn around our attitudes toward school. She wasn't focused on us having degrees, but she absolutely wasn't against post-secondary education. I barely graduated. My brother and sister both dropped out.

I hate the school system. I find it confining, frustrating, and very likely to turn off a person who started out wanting to learn. I've never made any bones about my views, but have also made school a priority, in terms of our day-to-day life (eg. ds1 wasn't allowed to say he was too sick to go to school, then be able to to go play with friends all afternoon, homework always needed to be done, family vacations were scheduled around school, etc.). DS1 loved school for longer than I did...I thought it rocked until about 5th or 6th grade, when I got bored and turned off, but it took him until this year, and he managed to push through until grad. So, I grew up in much more of a pro formal education home than ds1 did. But, I barely squeaked through (I had the minimum number of credits to graduate, and I passed one of those classes by 2%). DS1 was on the honour roll all the way through high school (may have missed one or two terms, when he had Planning on his course load).  He's heading off to do a three year university program in September (Acting for Stage and Screen, including history of the theatre, etc.), and even received a Bursary.

I'm just not sold on parental attitudes as a negative to homeschooling - or to public schooling, for that matter. Parental attitudes have some impact on children. I won't argue with that. But, I see parental attitudes as a positive or negative of the particular household, not the chosen educational method. For example, I think the type of homeschooling parent who is overprotective, or overly free range, or too isolating, or too casual about the people their children are exposed to, or too critical of their child(ren), or too unwilling to correct anything, or too obsessed with appearances, or too uninterested in appearances (this might be me - I should probably pay more attention than I do), or...whatever...is going to be those things, even if they put their children in public school, and those things are still going to affect their children, even in public school.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 

1)I don't believe there  are "across the board" cons of homeshchooling.

Most of the cons are specific to situations and families, but if homeschoolers unwilling to hear about them, how can they avoid them? It's the equivalent of an entire social trend sticking it's fingers in it's ears and singing. If they don't hear any of the bad news, they can pretend it doesn't exist. 

Isn't your kid in like Kindergarten? You are arguing with people with older kids and more years of experience with the homeschooling community.

One of the cons of homeschooling that I think is pretty universal is what I think of as "Homeschooling Myth #1"

Homeschooling Myth #1 -- Mom can do everything, if only she tries hard enough.

And I suspect if you read it and don't agree, it's because you still believe it. And that you'll your drive yourself into the ground to prove it true.  I was involved in the homeschooling community for about 10 years and the very biggest piece of advice I can give you is to figure out ways to take care of yourself.

I've no idea if homeschooling is the best choice for your kids. For some kids it is, and for some kids its not. But if you are going to homeschool, figure out how to take care of yourself.

2)I think many homeschoolers are reluctant to discuss the difficulties of homeschooling because it seems like EVERYTHING (both good and bad) a homeschooled child does is due to homeschooling.

Agreed. But this thread is made of mostly current homeschoolers and former homeschoolers. If there were ever a safe place to be honest about the down sides, this would be it.

If you close your eyes to what you see around you (you will eventually meet families whose children are not well served by homeschooling) and close to ears to people who've BTDT (like some of us on this thread), you are the only one who misses out. If you do that because your feel defensive because of how others have reacted to the fact you homeschooling, it doesn't change the fact the you are the one missing out.

Homeschooling masked the degree of my DDs special needs. Does that come up for most families? Thank god "no."  It was a nightmare I wouldn't wish on any one.

I think it will be sign that the homeschooling movement has grown up when it can admit there are serious possible down sides.

[Storm Bride]

Linda on the Move: Homeschooling Myth #1 -- Mom can do everything, if only she tries hard enough.

I think this is true, really. I don't suffer from it much, but I don't have to - dh is amazing, and I'm not expected to spend the day cleaning the house, cooking the meals, working with the kids, chauffeuring the kids around, and not get burned out. DH does about half the cooking (maybe a little less, since I do cook lunches sometimes), probably just over half the laundry, picks things up on the way home from work and runs out to get missing ingredients, etc. He also takes bath duty for the two youngest, as I tend to get highly stressed out at bathtime, and he doesn't. But, I definitely see a lot of moms around me who are trying to homeschool with nowhere near the same level of backup.

[ameliabedelia]

Isn't your kid in like Kindergarten? You are arguing with people with older kids and more years of experience with the homeschooling community.

Ummm ...how could you possibly know how old my kids are???  I have several children.  The oldest is in 4th grade.  I have been involved in the homeschooling community for 5 years.   I have a younger sister who was homeschooled from 3rd grade through graduation. I have homeschooled in 2 different states/geographical locations.  I have been a member of religious and secular homeschool groups.  I have met and spoke with many, many, many different homeschooling families. 

No, I don't believe that Mom can do it all.  I have never believed that anyone can do everything.  I don't know why you would think I believe that?  I certainly don't try to do it all.    There are certain subjects that I can't teach (like music/piano, art, ballet, tennis, soccer, ice skating) that other people teach my kids. I don't stress over doing it all.  And, I am pretty darn good at taking care of myself.  I'm not burnt-out.  I'm not overtired.  I work-out/exercise between 35-60 minutes/day 5 days a week and have faithfully for the last 13 years (maybe taking 2 weeks off with the birth of each baby).  I go places by myself pretty frequently.  Heck, I have more energy now than I have ever had.(that is probably mostly due to cutting out gluten in last few months). 

I'm also not a "career homeschooler".  I just take things on a year by year basis.  Right now, homeschooling is working really well for us.  Obviously, if that changes, we will change.

I never said there aren't downsides to homeschooling.  I simply said that those downsides aren't across the board. A downside for your family was that it masked learning disabilities.  That doesn't apply to everyone. For my sister, homeschooling saved her when she had severe learning disabilities.  She could not learn in public school and the school could not provide the resources she needed.  In the 2nd grade, my mom (a former teacher) was doing 4 hours of 1:1 work with her in the afternoons to keep her at barely grade level. 

No one ever said there aren't serious *possible* downsides.  The key is *possible*.  Those downsides don't apply to *everyone* and it is unfair to suggest that they do.

Edited by ameliabedelia - 7/11/11 at 6:12pm

[ramama]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 
1)I don't believe there  are "across the board" cons of homeshchooling.   How can there be?  Homeschooling is so different for everyone.  Some kids are in small families, some in large, some do lots of outside activities, classes, sports, coops and some don't  Some families live on areas with huge homeschooling networks and others don't..  Some kids have strict schooling with tests and deadlines and others don't. There are definitely cons and disadvantages for certain people/kids/families, but they don't apply to everyone across the board.  Maybe lack of group work is a con for child A since they would love that, but not for child B who hates that.  Maybe isolation is a con for child C, but not for child D who has a large family and many homeschooled friends.   There are only cons for a specific child in a specific situation.  Each family needs to look at their own unique children and unique situation and see what the pros and cons are for that child/situation/family.  You can talk about certain pitfalls that might happen or certain difficulties that might arise that you need to be on the lookout for but those don't apply across the board to everyone. 

2)I think many homeschoolers are reluctant to discuss the difficulties of homeschooling because it seems like EVERYTHING (both good and bad) a homeschooled child does is due to homeschooling.  Even in this thread about the "underachievers".   Yes, there are some homeschoolers who don't graduate from college.   There are also lots of schooled kids who are "underachievers" and don't graduate from college.  If a homeschooled child is a genius and wins the national spelling bee..it's because of homeschooling.  If a child can't read at the age of 10, it's because of homeschooling.  If they are socially awkward, it's because of homeschooling.  If they have good social skills, it is because of homeschooling.    If they achieve great things, it's due to homeschooling.  If they achieve nothing, it's due to homeschooling.   If they know their multiplication tables at the age or 5, it's due to homeschooling.  If they still don't know their multiplication tables at the age or 12, it's due to homeschooling. There are schooled kids and homeschooled kids who fit every category...overachievers, underachievers, average people, lazy, hard-working, smart, not as smart,  charismatic, socially inept.

Actually I suppose that is one "across the board" con of homeschooling.  The amount of pressure homeschoolers face to succeed.  After all, if a schooled child drops of out of college, no one says "tsk, tsk, tsk, it's because he went to school".  But, if a homeschooled child drops out of college, homeschooling is to blame, "it's because he didn't learn to handle deadlines, or to handle institutionalized learning".  While, even if that child had gone to school, they still might have dropped out. Certainly lots of schooled kids drop out of college, even those with high-achieving parents.  Heck, I know several families where some children are highly "successful" adults while others aren't.  All kids were raised by the same parents, went to the same schools, etc.

Are you capable of seeing public schooling through the same rose-colored glasses through which you view homeschooling?  If you substituted "public school" for "homeschool" in your post above, the same arguments you are making for homeschooling could apply to public school.  Seriously.  I don't know anyone who paints all homeschoolers with the same brush, but I ceratinly know many people who feel comfortable painting all public schools with the same brush.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 
 Perhaps a downside for your family was that it masked learning disabilities.  That is not a downside for me, since my children do not appear to have learning disabilities.

Perhaps??  Perhaps???

This would be like someone whose children are thriving in a school going to a homeschooling board and telling parent who pulled their child from school because of chronic, un-dealt with bullying whose child was emotional scarred from that experience that "perhaps that was a downside for your family but my kids are fine at school since other children like them." 

You are just being rude.

(my kids have never experienced bullying at school, but I know it happens. I understand that it's a possible downside of school. I would NEVER be rude to a mother whose child experienced it)

Why are you on this board? What are you hoping to get out of or contribute to this thread? 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 

2)I think many homeschoolers are reluctant to discuss the difficulties of homeschooling because it seems like EVERYTHING (both good and bad) a homeschooled child does is due to homeschooling. 

Isn't this largely due to homeschoolers themselves proclaiming that they don't separate schooling and education from the rest of simply living their lives? If everything a child does is homeschooling, then it's not a stretch to think that everything a child does will be due to homeschooling. When homeschoolers extol the wonders of integrating learning and development seamlessly into general life and not segregating learning from living, yada yada, blah, blah...then they should look to themselves if there is an impression that they are responsible for the outcomes - whether that's true or fair.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

or...whatever...is going to be those things, even if they put their children in public school, and those things are still going to affect their children, even in public school.

Well I have to say that having put my son in a Montessori, I actually changed a fair amount over the time he was there. I learned a lot about my son that I wouldn't have known (some of the things that grabbed his interest that I would never have introduced at those ages, and also his capacity to deal with a few relatively minor challenges, which was really neat to watch - although I still have big fears about huge things like bullying, it was really something to see him learn to handle conflict etc.), and I have to say that it has changed my outlook quite a lot about education. 

So just to get back to the OP, for our family one benefit of B&M schooling is that I feel like I learned a lot from my son's teachers. Both about him and about education. And about trust, really.  For me there really is a difference between "things I come up with/value/find" and "things other people value/come up with/find."

[ameliabedelia]

Perhaps??  Perhaps???

This would be like someone whose children are thriving in a school going to a homeschooling board and telling parent who pulled their child from school because of chronic, un-dealt with bullying whose child was emotional scarred from that experience that "perhaps that was a downside for your family but my kids are fine at school since other children like them." 

You are just being rude.

I apologize for that.  I have edited my post.  I didn't mean to doubt your experience nor to be rude.  I typed too quickly without thinking how it came across.  I should have read it over a bit more carefully and thought about how it came across (although I thought that saying I was inexperienced and don't know what i am talking about was rude.....nonetheless I was not intentionally trying to be offensive and I apologize if I was,)  I was simply trying to make the point that not every downside or issues applies to every child.    I am very happy that your children are thriving in school.   When the op asked for downsides, I took it to mean downsides that applied in a general sense to most everyone...not specific scenarios which may or may not apply to the OP.

then it's not a stretch to think that everything a child does will be due to homeschooling

I don't believe anything a child does is due to any one factor or that children are only the product of the way they are raised..  People are complex beings, and I do believe that nature and basic temperament plays a huge role.

Are you capable of seeing public schooling through the same rose-colored glasses through which you view homeschooling?  If you substituted "public school" for "homeschool" in your post above, the same arguments you are making for homeschooling could apply to public school.  Seriously.  I don't know anyone who paints all homeschoolers with the same brush, but I ceratinly know many people who feel comfortable painting all public schools with the same brush.

I do not view anything through rose colored glassed.  I do not paint all public schools with the same brush.  I realize that public schools vary widely.  I have a lot of experience with public and private schools as a student, as a teacher and with my dh being a teacher and he has taught in several different school districts...urban, rural, suburban, etc.   I've seen how different schools are very different.  I have encountered schools that I would be delighted to enroll my child in (if we lived near them and they were affordable).  I've seen others that it would be a "last resort" type thing.

Why are you on this board? What are you hoping to get out of or contribute to this thread?

 Just trying to provide a different perspective I suppose.    But, I will bow out of the discussion gracefully, now.

Edited by ameliabedelia - 7/11/11 at 6:55pm

[serenbat]

This would be like someone whose children are thriving in a school going to a homeschooling board and telling parent who pulled their child from school because of chronic, un-dealt with bullying whose child was emotional scarred from that experience that "perhaps that was a downside for your family but my kids are fine at school since other children like them." 

what is that? homeschooling board?

so if you have a "negative" experience from HSing that is NOT the parents fault but some how it is HSing boards fault?

HS is responsible and the parents is not?

just can't figure what is ment here

I would need to put on rose-colored glasses to see my states public school rankings for something other than what they really are. My states reports how public schools are doing and the changes each year and the drop out rates and the how many teachers are let go for poor performance. I can also see how well the Catholic schools are doing by the number of schools that have closed----private schools keep this information private.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Most of the cons are specific to situations and families, but if homeschoolers unwilling to hear about them, how can they avoid them? It's the equivalent of an entire social trend sticking it's fingers in it's ears and singing. If they don't hear any of the bad news, they can pretend it doesn't exist.

Isn't your kid in like Kindergarten? You are arguing with people with older kids and more years of experience with the homeschooling community.

One of the cons of homeschooling that I think is pretty universal is what I think of as "Homeschooling Myth #1"

Homeschooling Myth #1 -- Mom can do everything, if only she tries hard enough.

And I suspect if you read it and don't agree, it's because you still believe it. And that you'll your drive yourself into the ground to prove it true. I was involved in the homeschooling community for about 10 years and the very biggest piece of advice I can give you is to figure out ways to take care of yourself.

I've no idea if homeschooling is the best choice for your kids. For some kids it is, and for some kids its not. But if you are going to homeschool, figure out how to take care of yourself.

2)I think many homeschoolers are reluctant to discuss the difficulties of homeschooling because it seems like EVERYTHING (both good and bad) a homeschooled child does is due to homeschooling.

Agreed. But this thread is made of mostly current homeschoolers and former homeschoolers. If there were ever a safe place to be honest about the down sides, this would be it.

If you close your eyes to what you see around you (you will eventually meet families whose children are not well served by homeschooling) and close to ears to people who've BTDT (like some of us on this thread), you are the only one who misses out. If you do that because your feel defensive because of how others have reacted to the fact you homeschooling, it doesn't change the fact the you are the one missing out.

Homeschooling masked the degree of my DDs special needs. Does that come up for most families? Thank god "no." It was a nightmare I wouldn't wish on any one.

I think it will be sign that the homeschooling movement has grown up when it can admit there are serious possible down sides.

re the bolded - Wow Linda. Just Wow.

I have 4 kids. I've been homeschooling longer than you did and plan to continue. My oldest is older than your oldest and I too have been in the homeschooling community for more than a decade. And I happen to agree with much of what Ameliabedelia says. So now that that's taken care of.....

I am not denying your experience but you continue to assert that your experience or perceptions of homeschooling are a universal truth.

Hate to break it to you but it's not the case.

You are one person, with a set viewpoint, influenced by your own background, experiences, temperment and abilities.  

Your opnions, as strong as they are, are not fact, nor are they any more valid that those who have opposing viewpoints, different temperments or experiences.

Honestly I don't know a single homeschooler (or human for that matter)  who believes your universal myth.

So many of your assertions about homeschoolers are based on stereotypical assumptions, or completely false ideas about things like the amount of interaction and outside influence and information homeschoolers have access to.  I have to wonder why your homeschooling experience is so radically different from my own, or that of my homeschooling friends, or so many of the homeschoolers on discussion forums and email lists I am on.

In any respect, while I truly do respect that you have a different experience I will continue to post the counterweight to your arguments precisely because you assert that those of us who don't think like you do haven't yet seen the light, or must be fooling ourselves, or are perhaps not as experienced as you.

My experience homeschooling has been almost the exact opposite of yours in so many ways and it is just as valid for me to express that as it is for you to express what your personal experience is.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

what is that? homeschooling board?

so if you have a "negative" experience from HSing that is NOT the parents fault but some how it is HSing boards fault?

HS is responsible and the parents is not?

just can't figure what is ment here

I would need to put on rose-colored glasses to see my states public school rankings for something other than what they really are. My states reports how public schools are doing and the changes each year and the drop out rates and the how many teachers are let go for poor performance. I can also see how well the Catholic schools are doing by the number of schools that have closed----private schools keep this information private.

It's just weird that the OP came here, already deciding to homeschool, wanting possible negatives so that she could avoid them, and zealous homeschoolers pop up here (in the Learning at School board) advocating for homeschool and nay-saying everything that is offered here.  The OP already researched the Learning at Home board and got the information she needed to decide to homeschool.  I just wonder why die-hard homeschoolers feel so threatened by people who either tried homeschooling and it didn't work for them, or who are happy in public school.  What's up with that?

Serenbat, no one is saying that public schools are all good.  No one.  Everyone knows that there are areas where public schools are suffering.  The point is that ameliabedelia's arguments make no sense.  She will accept no negative to homeschooling, instead putting in all on the individual parent.  The same argument can be made in defense of public school, by placing the onus on the individual (ie, individual teacher, individual principal, individual bully, individual school) rather than the system.  I am just sick and tired of avid homeschoolers coming on a Learning at School forum and making the parents of public school students feel like they are shipping their children off to stupid-factories where they will be bullied and tested to death, or making the parents of former homeschooled children feel like they failed due to some character flaw.    Dude.  I have been mostly lurking in this thread, but this crap is really getting to me.

There have been many parents here who have shared their experiences with homeschooling and public schooling in a very candid and genuine way, and I am thankful for their perspectives.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by ramama 

Are you capable of seeing public schooling through the same rose-colored glasses through which you view homeschooling?  If you substituted "public school" for "homeschool" in your post above, the same arguments you are making for homeschooling could apply to public school.  Seriously.  I don't know anyone who paints all homeschoolers with the same brush, but I ceratinly know many people who feel comfortable painting all public schools with the same brush.

Well public schooling is an institutionalized entity at least where I live. Across the province the curriculum is standardized as are the tests, the systems, many of the approaches/programs/resources/challenges.  I presume it is similar in the US. And while there are individual differences in schools and teachers without a doubt, there are also there are easily measurable benchmarks which allow us to speak about the system as a whole. For example the dropout rate which depending on how it is measured hovers somewhere around 20-30% of all highschool students. Or the grade 10 basic literacy test which 17 % failed.

I think most homeschoolers understand that schools can be/are different from each other and in many cases are different from when we attended them. But there is enough commonality across the system to be able to assess the effectiveness of system for some things. Heck the system does that itself so it's not such a stretch that all of us (hsers/psers etc) use that information to inform our opinions.
 

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by ramama 

It's just weird that the OP came here, already deciding to homeschool, wanting possible negatives so that she could avoid them, and zealous homeschoolers pop up here (in the Learning at School board) advocating for homeschool and nay-saying everything that is offered here.  The OP already researched the Learning at Home board and got the information she needed to decide to homeschool.  I just wonder why die-hard homeschoolers feel so threatened by people who either tried homeschooling and it didn't work for them, or who are happy in public school.  What's up with that?

Serenbat, no one is saying that public schools are all good.  No one.  Everyone knows that there are areas where public schools are suffering.  The point is that ameliabedelia's arguments make no sense.  She will accept no negative to homeschooling, instead putting in all on the individual parent.  The same argument can be made in defense of public school, by placing the onus on the individual (ie, individual teacher, individual principal, individual bully, individual school) rather than the system.  I am just sick and tired of avid homeschoolers coming on a Learning at School forum and making the parents of public school students feel like they are shipping their children off to stupid-factories where they will be bullied and tested to death, or making the parents of former homeschooled children feel like they failed due to some character flaw.    Dude.  I have been mostly lurking in this thread, but this crap is really getting to me.

There have been many parents here who have shared their experiences with homeschooling and public schooling in a very candid and genuine way, and I am thankful for their perspectives.

Not threatened at all. That's a rather tired assertion that just because someone disagrees, they must feel threatened.  

I think its valid for homeschoolers to expect the same respect that you as a public schooler is looking for for your educational choices - an acknowledgement that the potential positives or downsides of an education system are not common across all families/schools/grades.

I also think it is valid to suggest that our experiences are more common than we may think and that what has been portrayed as huge downsides of homeschooling are actually more a common expereince of parenting and not based solely on educational choice.

I have no problem with someone speaking of their own experience. I take issue when it is portrayed as a universal truth and when it is based on sterotypes and hearsay rather than expereince. The OP asked for personal experience or factual analysis not nebulous unfounded generalizations or projections. 

[ramama]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4 
Well public schooling is an institutionalized entity at least where I live. Across the province the curriculum is standardized as are the tests, the systems, many of the approaches/programs/resources/challenges.  I presume it is similar in the US. And while there are individual differences in schools and teachers without a doubt, there are also there are easily measurable benchmarks which allow us to speak about the system as a whole. For example the dropout rate which depending on how it is measured hovers somewhere around 20-30% of all highschool students. Or the grade 10 basic literacy test which 17 % failed.

I think most homeschoolers understand that schools can be/are different from each other and in many cases are different from when we attended them. But there is enough commonality across the system to be able to assess the effectiveness of system for some things. Heck the system does that itself so it's not such a stretch that all of us (hsers/psers etc) use that information to inform our opinions.
 

This is one thing that bothers me.  There are tests scores for every single public school student (barring some absences), and records kept for each and every one, but there is no comparable mandatory testing for homeschooled students.  When homeschoolers submit to testing each and every student, then I will accept arguments blasting the scores of public school students.  Otherwise the argument is moot.  That's like comparing apples to nothing.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4 

Not threatened at all. That's a rather tired assertion that just because someone disagrees, they must feel threatened.  

I think its valid for homeschoolers to expect the same respect that you as a public schooler is looking for for your educational choices - an acknowledgement that the potential positives or downsides of an education system are not common across all families/schools/grades.

I also think it is valid to suggest that our experiences are more common than we may think and that what has been portrayed as huge downsides of homeschooling are actually more a common expereince of parenting and not based solely on educational choice.

I have no problem with someone speaking of their own experience. I take issue when it is portrayed as a universal truth and when it is based on sterotypes and hearsay rather than expereince. The OP asked for personal experience or factual analysis not nebulous unfounded generalizations or projections. 

Of course you're threatened, which is why you're on the Learning at School forum, responding in a thread where the OP stated that she has already asked questions in the Learning at Home board and has decided to homeschool.  Why else be here?

The OP asked for personal experience and factual analysis that is anti-homeschool.  You already had your turn.

Here are the OPs threads in the Learning at Home forum:

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1318860/will-homeschooling-strain-or-strengthen-or-both-my-relationship-with-my-dcs

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1318150/seeking-best-anti-homeschool-information-research-etc

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by ramama 

This is one thing that bothers me.  There are tests scores for every single public school students (barring some absences), and records kept for each and every one, but there is no comparable mandatory testing for homeschooled students.  When homeschoolers submit to testing each and every student, then I will accept arguments blasting the scores of public school students.  Otherwise the argument is moot.  That's like comparing apples to nothing.

I'm not comparing or blasting anything. I am simply saying that the public school system itself (at least in the province I live in) assess itself as a system and that it is valid for all of  us to then use that info to talk about the system. It doesn't mean that there aren't variances by district, school, teacher or student. But that doesn't make it any less valid to say that the highschool dropout rate in NA hovers somewhere around 25% when talking about public school as a system.

[Callimom]

Oh please.

Could we leave the personal attacks aside?

I'm not threatened by what you think of my educational choices. Why would I be?

I just think that a good discussion about educational choice should be based on more than some of the assertions made here and that the OP deserves more than the idea that all homeschoolers are less educationally aware, informed, honest or mindful than has been painted by some of the more vocal anti-homeschoolers in this thread.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4 

I'm not comparing or blasting anything. I am simply saying that the public school system itself (at least in the province I live in) assess itself as a system and that it is valid for all of  us to then use that info to talk about the system. It doesn't mean that there aren't variances by district, school, teacher or student. But that doesn't make it any less valid to say that the highschool dropout rate in NA hovers somewhere around 25% when talking about public school as a system.

You're missing the point.  What percentage of homeschooled kids drop-out?  What percentage of homeschool kids fail the literacy tests?  How many meet math and reading standards? What are the statistics in the homeschool system?  Until homeschoolers can provide similar statistics, it makes no sense to hold up test scores and drop-out rates and say "see how bad our public schools are?"

[ramama]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4 

Oh please.

Could we leave the personal attacks aside?

I'm not threatened by what you think of my educational choices. Why would I be?

I just think that a good discussion about educational choice should be based on more than some of the assertions made here and that the OP deserves more than the idea that all homeschoolers are less educationally aware, informed, honest or mindful than has been painted by some of the more vocal anti-homeschoolers in this thread.

You refuse to answer my question.  Which speaks volumes, actually.