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War between the Mom's - Page 10

post #181 of 289
Here's a thought I had as I read the last page or two- some insults hurt more than others, right? Like, if someone tells you that your husband doesn't love you and thinks you're ugly, that hurts more than if someone says your tuna casserole tastes like crap. And while there is much individual variability between what you find most insulting and what I find most insulting, there are some general trends towards things that are insulting to most people. One of those being your investment as a parent.
So, when SAHMs make comments that seem to suggest that WOHMs don't care enough about their kids, it touches on a very raw nerve. Whereas a WOHM making a comment that seems to suggest that SAHMs don't contribute to their family's security and growth, it doesn't really offend because most people don't have that raw nerve about providing for the family.
Also, I do feel like SAHMs are sometimes guilty of making untrue assumptions about the role working mothers play in their kids lives, and what daycare is actually like. And that's fine, there's no reason for you to know what daycare is like if your kid has never attended one. But then don't say things like you know that staying home with you is what's best for your kid (yes, even your own kid). Put your kid in daycare for a few months, and then see if you're right or wrong. At least then you can make that statement with fact to support it, rather than just an assumption based on your own fears about the experience.
And FWIW, I work 10 months a year. I stay home 2 months a year. When I work, I spend about 5 of my daughter's waking hours at work. During those 5 hours, she eats the meal and snack that I prepared and packed for her, and she plays, talks with, and enjoys the company of her teachers and friends. I know what's good about staying home and I know what's good about letting my daughter experience other people. I know that each kid has different needs, wants, and tolerances, and I think good moms do what is necessary to meet those needs and wants within the confines of keeping the whole family operating smoothly. As a personal example, before DD was born, and even when she was an infant, I was sold on the idea that daycare centers were EVIL, and that a small home based center was much much better. For some kids, that's true. Not for mine. She thrives in the center environment. I had to be responsive to her needs over my own beliefs in order to make that happen though, you know?
Sorry for the choppiness, I'm writing on my phone...
post #182 of 289

It can be hard to keep it friendly when you get into debates on these forums ... we mothers are pretty sensitive and it's easy to take things the wrong way. What really irritates me is when people imply (or directly state) that I don't care about my babies' safety because of the choices I've made, eg homebirth, natural birth, co-sleeping. It especially comes from people who don't seem to have ever done any research on the subjects but just believe whatever they saw on tv or whatever their dr told them. So I usually feel compelled to defend my position and maybe even enlighten some people who are interested in learning ... but generally it just seems to piss some people off, especially on the mainstream forums!

post #183 of 289


I did research on planned  HB. It increases risk of neonatal death by 3 times.  So, I gave the evidence to my sister in law and she is going with a birthing center staffed by CNMs. The center had 30% transfer rate and is super close.to the hospital.

CDC is very open  with stats. I wanted stats from MANA but you have to sign an agreements with them which is not how research is shared by other entities.

 

You are doing the same thing that you accuse people of....I choose hospital birth for myself because I did my own research and calculated  odds. 1% risk , for example , seems like a low number until you express is as 1 in 100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Bella View Post

It can be hard to keep it friendly when you get into debates on these forums ... we mothers are pretty sensitive and it's easy to take things the wrong way. What really irritates me is when people imply (or directly state) that I don't care about my babies' safety because of the choices I've made, eg homebirth, natural birth, co-sleeping. It especially comes from people who don't seem to have ever done any research on the subjects but just believe whatever they saw on tv or whatever their dr told them. So I usually feel compelled to defend my position and maybe even enlighten some people who are interested in learning ... but generally it just seems to piss some people off, especially on the mainstream forums!



 

post #184 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by petey44 View Post

Here's a thought I had as I read the last page or two- some insults hurt more than others, right? Like, if someone tells you that your husband doesn't love you and thinks you're ugly, that hurts more than if someone says your tuna casserole tastes like crap.
 
Actually, the latter would insult me more. I don't give a crap what some third party says about whether or not my husband loves me. That seems like a weird thing to get upset by.
 
And while there is much individual variability between what you find most insulting and what I find most insulting, there are some general trends towards things that are insulting to most people. One of those being your investment as a parent.
So, when SAHMs make comments that seem to suggest that WOHMs don't care enough about their kids, it touches on a very raw nerve. Whereas a WOHM making a comment that seems to suggest that SAHMs don't contribute to their family's security and growth, it doesn't really offend because most people don't have that raw nerve about providing for the family.
 
Really? Speak for yourself. DH is very sensitive about providing for our family, and I was sensitive about providing for my family when I was the "breadwinner"...and telling me that I don't contribute to my family's security or growth is absolutely offensive. I can't imagine what kind of dreamworld you're living in that you don't think it would be!

Also, I do feel like SAHMs are sometimes guilty of making untrue assumptions about the role working mothers play in their kids lives, and what daycare is actually like. And that's fine, there's no reason for you to know what daycare is like if your kid has never attended one. But then don't say things like you know that staying home with you is what's best for your kid (yes, even your own kid). Put your kid in daycare for a few months, and then see if you're right or wrong. At least then you can make that statement with fact to support it, rather than just an assumption based on your own fears about the experience.
 

Wow. SAHMs are obnoxious? You're flat out telling us, as SAHMs not to make statements about what's best for our own children and families, because you might find them insulting, and then talking about how SAHMs make insensitive, insulting comments.  That's probably the single most obnoxious remark I've seen on this entire thread.

 

Yes - I will make comments about what's best for my family. Deal with it. And, please, please don't put on this "SAHMs do this and that and are sooo insulting" thing. It goes both ways. Some of the stuff I've heard from WAHMs (both when I was one, and since) is every bit as bad as anything that gets dished in the other direction.

 

Oh - and get over the "fears" thing. That's also insulting and incredibly patronizing. I'm not "afraid" of putting my child in daycare. I simply believe that me being home is best for my kids and my family.


And FWIW, I work 10 months a year. I stay home 2 months a year. When I work, I spend about 5 of my daughter's waking hours at work. During those 5 hours, she eats the meal and snack that I prepared and packed for her, and she plays, talks with, and enjoys the company of her teachers and friends. I know what's good about staying home and I know what's good about letting my daughter experience other people. I know that each kid has different needs, wants, and tolerances, and I think good moms do what is necessary to meet those needs and wants within the confines of keeping the whole family operating smoothly. As a personal example, before DD was born, and even when she was an infant, I was sold on the idea that daycare centers were EVIL, and that a small home based center was much much better. For some kids, that's true. Not for mine. She thrives in the center environment. I had to be responsive to her needs over my own beliefs in order to make that happen though, you know?
 
I don't think daycare centres are evil. I never have. They're simply not the right choice for me, for many reasons.
 


.

post #185 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post

Quote:

One thing I have learned as a parent is never to say NEVER as it is practically an invitation for a kharmic smackdown. Circumstances can change very radically, and "I could never" can turn very quickly to "I need to". That is when you really learn not to be judgemental.



Okay, reading this thread now, and I've only got this far, but had to quote this, as I think it's the first time I've ever completely agreed with something choli said!  

post #186 of 289
Wow, Storm Bride, my post was not directed specifically at you (or anyone else on here either). In fact, if I recall correctly, you have said that you've done both, working outside home and staying at home. Which means that my post would really not be applicable to you, as I was talking about people who slammed a choice that they had never made and had no experience with. Please go back, reread, and see if it makes more sense now with that added explanation.
And nowhere did I say or imply that SAHMs are obnoxious.
I was trying to make two points- one- that saying or implying that a mother is not really a mother because she's not the sole provider all the time hits a very deep nerve for most people, which is why it seems easy to insult a WOHM. And two- that it does bother me, personally, when a person slams a choice that they actually know nothing about. I used the word "fears" because that is how I've heard it mentioned, on Mothering and IRL, by quite a few moms who are agonizing over what to do when their family's financial needs aren't being met, so they're going to have to work, but what to do with the kids?? Maybe you don't now and never did have a fear surrounding daycare, but a lot of people do. Hell, I did before I experienced it.
The angry tone of your message really put me off, btw. I don't think there was any need for that.
And again, typing on my phone so sorry for any choppiness.
post #187 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post


I did research on planned  HB. It increases risk of neonatal death by 3 times.  



 

 

Could you share the source of your stats?  This is NOT what I have read.

 

Anna Bella shared that she hated when people accused her of not caring for her baby's safety by her choices - and you come on and did just that.

 

I think if you (general you) are going to hang out of MDC you should be able to handle the fact that people have homebirths, avoid vax, EBF, ect without inserting your anti-HB, pro vax, pro formua stance on every.single. thread.  

 

I get people are angry - but at some point you either have to let go off your anger and move on or cut your losses and leave.  JMHO.

 

 

 


 

 


Edited by purslaine - 7/6/11 at 6:19am
post #188 of 289

I hear you. 

 

I personally try really hard to be a perfect mom and cover all my basics.  It started with my mom and her amazing strength, while other well off mothers were telling her formula was much better she stuck with breast feeding.  According to the doctor my due date was Nov. 22, but according to me I could have the baby as late as Dec. 14th. so I was happy to have the opportunity to switch to a midwife, I registered at the hospital yet planned for a home birth.  The baby had a birth defect, but was very healthy 9 lbs 12 oz. with a heart rate of 130 through labour and delivery.  It was so nice to let him do the breast crawl, but he didn't really get to latch because we had to go to the hospital.  I tried to nurse him before surgery, but I was still in a bit of shock.  He was in traction so it was hard to lean over and nurse him, so I just pumped...every 2.5 hours 'round the clock, for the month we were in the hospital.  My supply was low so I did everything I could to keep it up.  So, long story short, I was able to finally hold him and breast feed...for the next 4 years! 

 

I do get frustrated when it seems like people care less than I do.  I think it's important to be financially, emotionally and relationship secure before having kids.  If you can't afford to stay with them the better part of the day then don't get pregnant.  I'm finding there's been a nice switch from 30 years ago, it's more accepted and respected to have a natural birth (as opposed to scheduled c-section), breast feeding is encouraged now, (even extended breast feeding).  I don't think any moms should feel guilty about what they do for their children.  The only time I feel guilty is when I intentionally make a poor choice, it's one thing to make an uninformed decision that we later regret, but that's what we as moms can do for each other here.  I've yet to hear someone say, "I regret breast feeding", "I feel guilty about staying at home with my kids", "I wish I didn't make homemade baby food", "Too bad my 48 month old drank human milk over cow milk."...you all get what I'm saying. 

 

So now, in my life, it's time for me to decide on school for my little one, so far I'm proud of all my choices, but I'm stumped with what to do here.  I have heard people say they regret homeschooling, I really want to home school, but I feel it's a bit selfish of me.  My child is amazing and I think he would do very well in the public system.  We do have really good schools in our community, and he loves learning and being with other children.  I think I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes.  I have looked into distant education as well in case it doesn't work out.

post #189 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

I hear you. 

 

I personally try really hard to be a perfect mom and cover all my basics.  It started with my mom and her amazing strength, while other well off mothers were telling her formula was much better she stuck with breast feeding.  According to the doctor my due date was Nov. 22, but according to me I could have the baby as late as Dec. 14th. so I was happy to have the opportunity to switch to a midwife, I registered at the hospital yet planned for a home birth.  The baby had a birth defect, but was very healthy 9 lbs 12 oz. with a heart rate of 130 through labour and delivery.  It was so nice to let him do the breast crawl, but he didn't really get to latch because we had to go to the hospital.  I tried to nurse him before surgery, but I was still in a bit of shock.  He was in traction so it was hard to lean over and nurse him, so I just pumped...every 2.5 hours 'round the clock, for the month we were in the hospital.  My supply was low so I did everything I could to keep it up.  So, long story short, I was able to finally hold him and breast feed...for the next 4 years! 

 

I do get frustrated when it seems like people care less than I do.  I think it's important to be financially, emotionally and relationship secure before having kids.  If you can't afford to stay with them the better part of the day then don't get pregnant.  I'm finding there's been a nice switch from 30 years ago, it's more accepted and respected to have a natural birth (as opposed to scheduled c-section), breast feeding is encouraged now, (even extended breast feeding).  I don't think any moms should feel guilty about what they do for their children.  The only time I feel guilty is when I intentionally make a poor choice, it's one thing to make an uninformed decision that we later regret, but that's what we as moms can do for each other here.  I've yet to hear someone say, "I regret breast feeding", "I feel guilty about staying at home with my kids", "I wish I didn't make homemade baby food", "Too bad my 48 month old drank human milk over cow milk."...you all get what I'm saying. 

 

So now, in my life, it's time for me to decide on school for my little one, so far I'm proud of all my choices, but I'm stumped with what to do here.  I have heard people say they regret homeschooling, I really want to home school, but I feel it's a bit selfish of me.  My child is amazing and I think he would do very well in the public system.  We do have really good schools in our community, and he loves learning and being with other children.  I think I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes.  I have looked into distant education as well in case it doesn't work out.



Well gosh, it must make you feel so good to be a perfect mom!  Tell me though, what is the right way to deal with an unplanned pregnancy?  You know, before you're financially, emotionally and relationship secure enough to have a baby.

 

post #190 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

I do get frustrated when it seems like people care less than I do.  I think it's important to be financially, emotionally and relationship secure before having kids.  If you can't afford to stay with them the better part of the day then don't get pregnant. 

 

  I don't think any moms should feel guilty about what they do for their children.  The only time I feel guilty is when I intentionally make a poor choice, it's one thing to make an uninformed decision that we later regret, but that's what we as moms can do for each other here.  


bigeyes.gif  Good way to let everyone know that if they aren't as perfect as you then they don't deserve to have children.  Do you also recommend eugenics programs so that unworthy people don't breed?  For the record, I waited until I was financially stable and in a solid relationship before I had kids.  But I will most likely never be your definition of emotionally stable.  Instead I have a rockin support network that is happy to help me through the parts of life I can't handle by myself due to my emotional instability.  I'm still a good mother.  I am ensuring that my children have AWESOME care by people who love them tremendously when I can't perfectly provide it all by myself.

 

I don't agree that moms should never feel guilty.  There are bad mothers and they deserve their guilt.  I don't think that the vast majority of mothers falls into this category.  And I don't think that all poor choices are things you should feel guilty for.  I would LOVE to switch to formula but my daughter won't drink it.  I'm not willing to starve her so I'm stuck with nursing.  To me in my personal little hierarchy of parenting that wouldn't be the optimal choice given that I make enough milk to drown a small South Asian nation but I have those pesky emotional problems.  So I actually think it would be better.  But weaning isn't going well.  Oy.  

 

Basically, what I am saying is... I really hope your second choice is less of a rah rah rah about how you are better than everyone else.

 

And I'm not even getting into the bit about how women should all stay home.  Cause no, they shouldn't.

post #191 of 289

If you don't want a baby don't have intercourse, if you get raped, take the morning after pill.

post #192 of 289

Alenushka, regarding the statistics on home birth vs. hospital birth -- while I don't know anything about the particular source you are citing, I simply do want to point out that many of these research studies lump planned and unplanned homebirths into the exact same category, which I guess would mean that my planned homebirth was in the same category as the unplanned homebirth of a young girl I heard of who claimed that she was not aware that she was pregnant until the baby splashed out into the toilet when she was using the restroom one day, and then she wrapped him or her into a towel and stuffed him or her under her bed, where s/he stayed until someone discovered the poor child's dead body.

 

It's similar when it comes to research on the risks of parent-child co-sleeping. An arrangement where the baby is between one parent and a wall, or between Mom and Dad (neither of whom abuses drugs or alcohol), and where everyone has ample space, is lumped into the same category as arrangements where parents abuse drugs and alcohol, or where the space is very crowded -- for example, in cases where a tiny infant is place into a bed with a bunch of siblings.

post #193 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

If you don't want a baby don't have intercourse, if you get raped, take the morning after pill.

 

.

 

*stomp on fingers before you get in trouble*

post #194 of 289

Mom shouldn't feel guilty about what they do for their children.  I may be delusional, but I like to believe every mother is trying their best and every mother needs encouragement because it can be tough to make healthy choices.

post #195 of 289



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

If you don't want a baby don't have intercourse, if you get raped, take the morning after pill.



So, what if, like me, you wanted both your babies and are still very happy to have them -- but you simply aren't perfectly prepared financially, emotionally, or whatever?

 

Are you really saying that only the totally-prepared kind of person that you described is worthy of having children?

 

post #196 of 289

petey44, would you also say, then, that before a working mother can say that it's best for her own child to attend daycare, she really needs to quit work and stay home with her child for a few months? And, is she just making an "assumption based on (her) own fears" if she says that her quitting her job would lead to the loss of their home and other basic necessities? Does everyone really need to do these sorts of experiences before they can speak about their own knowledge of their own children?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by petey44 View Post

But then don't say things like you know that staying home with you is what's best for your kid (yes, even your own kid). Put your kid in daycare for a few months, and then see if you're right or wrong. At least then you can make that statement with fact to support it, rather than just an assumption based on your own fears about the experience.
post #197 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

If you don't want a baby don't have intercourse, if you get raped, take the morning after pill.



Gosh you have all the answers don't you?  I had my first baby after I was married.  He wasn't planned and we weren't completely ready (or he would have been planned).  I'm not quite sure how a sexless marriage would have worked for me.  Probably not very well. 

 

You know, a mother who is constantly learning is a good thing.  I've made many mistakes that I do regret as a mom.  But at the time I made them, it was after lots of research and a long decision process.  I've found out later that while it was the best choice at the time, I wouldn't make it again.  And I do think I'm a good mom, who puts my kids first and does the absolute best I possibly can.  I don't need to put down other moms to make me feel like a good parent.  My kids are healthy and happy and wonderful and they have a whole bunch of people that they consider family because I don't see the problem with sharing them with others.  The evil daycare they go to?  Full of friends and amazing people that do help influence their lives and teach them a zillion things I couldn't teach them if they were home with me (and only me) all the time. 

 

I've said already in this thread, but if being a sahm is what works for you and your family, have at it.  But you have to realize that sah parents aren't the be all and end all for parenting.  There are good and bad parents everywhere who make lots of good and bad choices.  A mother who chooses to work or use formula or use a crib or whatever isn't instantly a bad parent.

 

post #198 of 289

I don't think anyone is ever perfectly prepared for having children, but it's nice to think about being somewhat prepared for a child. 

post #199 of 289

I agree, something that may seem to other moms as "right" or "wrong" are different depending on what's best for the child at the time.  I used disposables for my first child because I felt with his condition that it was more sanitary than cloth.  I don't get bothered by moms who dress their babies in t-shirts that say, "If it's not cloth it's trash", I think it's cool that so many people are starting to make 'crunchier' choices for their children.  At one point when my milk supply was behind I used a bottle of formula, I don't feel bad about that, that's what it's there for.  I had my other child circumcised, I looked into it, it was the right choice for us, some will disagree, but that was my informed decision and what I strongly felt was best.   I don't want anyone to feel bad, it's just so worth making informed choices. 

 

As I mentioned, I do try real hard to be a perfect mom, and I think it makes it all that much more fun when you let things slide for a treat, like letting them roast marsh mellows, have a freezie, ice-cream, a glass of cow milk, or watch Cars movie, it's just so mundane if they get to do that all the time!  smile.gif

post #200 of 289



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

I hear you. 

 

 

I do get frustrated when it seems like people care less than I do.  I think it's important to be financially, emotionally and relationship secure before having kids.  If you can't afford to stay with them the better part of the day then don't get pregnant. 

 You do realize that all three of those securities can be lost at the drop of a hat?

 

I could afford to stay home with my kids and chose not to. I suppose I should be struck by lightening.

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