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War between the Mom's - Page 11

post #201 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

If you don't want a baby don't have intercourse, if you get raped, take the morning after pill.


So its safe to say that you didn't have sex until you were in a stable relationship that was completely 100% financially secure?  Cause really, there is no such thing as being 100% financially secure. 

 

And, not everyone has access to the morning after pill, for a variety of reasons.

 

post #202 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post

I could afford to stay home with my kids and chose not to. I suppose I should be struck by lightening.


I can't afford to stay home with my kid, b/c I'm not in a relationship, and I'm no where close to being financially secure.  I suppose I should be struck by lightning too.

 

post #203 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by petey44 View Post

Here's a thought I had as I read the last page or two- some insults hurt more than others, right? Like, if someone tells you that your husband doesn't love you and thinks you're ugly, that hurts more than if someone says your tuna casserole tastes like crap. And while there is much individual variability between what you find most insulting and what I find most insulting, there are some general trends towards things that are insulting to most people. One of those being your investment as a parent.
So, when SAHMs make comments that seem to suggest that WOHMs don't care enough about their kids, it touches on a very raw nerve. Whereas a WOHM making a comment that seems to suggest that SAHMs don't contribute to their family's security and growth, it doesn't really offend because most people don't have that raw nerve about providing for the family.
Also, I do feel like SAHMs are sometimes guilty of making untrue assumptions about the role working mothers play in their kids lives, and what daycare is actually like. And that's fine, there's no reason for you to know what daycare is like if your kid has never attended one. But then don't say things like you know that staying home with you is what's best for your kid (yes, even your own kid). Put your kid in daycare for a few months, and then see if you're right or wrong. At least then you can make that statement with fact to support it, rather than just an assumption based on your own fears about the experience.
And FWIW, I work 10 months a year. I stay home 2 months a year. When I work, I spend about 5 of my daughter's waking hours at work. During those 5 hours, she eats the meal and snack that I prepared and packed for her, and she plays, talks with, and enjoys the company of her teachers and friends. I know what's good about staying home and I know what's good about letting my daughter experience other people. I know that each kid has different needs, wants, and tolerances, and I think good moms do what is necessary to meet those needs and wants within the confines of keeping the whole family operating smoothly. As a personal example, before DD was born, and even when she was an infant, I was sold on the idea that daycare centers were EVIL, and that a small home based center was much much better. For some kids, that's true. Not for mine. She thrives in the center environment. I had to be responsive to her needs over my own beliefs in order to make that happen though, you know?
Sorry for the choppiness, I'm writing on my phone...

Wow, this is a really annoying statement. I know what is best for my family and I will say whatever I see fit about it. How obnoxious for you to assume that just because I havent put my kid in daycare I cant make an informed decision about it.

There are 5 daycares within 20 miles of my house. None of them are fit for my child. When I say they are not fit for my child, what I mean is that I dont want my kid playing with toys that have tv characters all over them, watching tv all the time, eating non organic food, being told "good girl" and "bad girl", being forced to lay down in a crib to nap (she has never been in a crib in her life), an d wearing disposable diapers. Not one of the five day cares will deal with cloth diapers. I want my kid to be raised the way that I want her raised, not the way that daycare wants her raised, and the daycares here make me have to make way too many compromises on my parenting styles for her to attend. (so, YES, it would be being raised the way daycare wanted, not me).

My sister was abused in daycare and I am the one that caught the woman hitting her when I went to pick her up one day when my mom was sick. The lady was holding her hand over my sister's mouth (9 months old) while she was hitting her on the butt. At this same daycare, my mom could send her own snacks, they promised that they didnt cio, they said someone would be with her at all times. We trusted them. My two other siblings had gone there for years and there had never been a problem.

Sure, I know all daycares dont do that. But my personal experience has helped me make the decision that I know is right for my family. Because, IMO, you have no idea what is going on when you arent there. And for me and DH, we cant handle that kind of anxiety. So YES, this decision is right for us. AND NO we dont need to try it to find out.

I am so sick of everytime anyone says anything about how they know that its best for their kid not to go to daycare all of the sudden, all of us SAHM's are "slamming" WOHM's. Get a grip. I like strawberry ice cream too. I dont HATE you or judge you for liking vanilla. Its just a difference of opinion. I feel like SAHM's arent allowed to have opinions about why we've chosen to do this without it pissing all the working mothers off. Geeze, no one is allowed to say anything that they believe in anymore without "offending" someone else. And some of the people who get "offended" about this issue are the same people who have told moms in other threads to "put your big girl panties on." Seriously, put your big girl panties on and understand that you are doing what you think is best for your family and who gives a sh*t what some mom across the country on the internet thinks about your choice to go to work. Most of us arent thinking anything about your choice, we just know that WE are making the right choice for OUR families.

I WAH. I specifically made this change in my life to SAH with my kids. I could take offense to you suggesting that I not make any statements about daycare until Ive tried it because I switched my whole life around to do this and you are making the assumption that I just sit around and think "Everything Im doing is right and daycare sucks." blindly. I plan to homeschool our kids too, so it would be pretty hard to do that and work, considering Id have to drive round trip 120 miles a day to work. So, I could try daycare for three months if I wanted to, but the point is that this is what Ive chosen to do with my life, and I think its what is right for us. Sorry that offends you.
post #204 of 289

Met my dh when I had just turned 20, became good friends, lived with him a year later. We had sex after living together 9 months, used a condom the whole time, the condom broke once so I took the morning after pill.  I saved up $10,000.00, we got married, together saving $2000.00 a month, I used the rhythm method, got pregnant for my 26th birthday, loved my pregnancy but didn't prepare for a birth defect (as I didn't do anything in my pregnancy to cause it), dealt with the struggles, saved up $40,000.00 to buy a house to fit a second child because we decided we wanted one maybe two more, bought our dream house, had a perfect home birth to another perfect boy, dh decided two was enough, he got snipped, and that's about it.  I'm very glad I've waited and prepared because having a child with extra needs does put a strain on things, I suppose that's why I may come across as preachy.

post #205 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by petey44 View Post

Wow, Storm Bride, my post was not directed specifically at you (or anyone else on here either). In fact, if I recall correctly, you have said that you've done both, working outside home and staying at home. Which means that my post would really not be applicable to you, as I was talking about people who slammed a choice that they had never made and had no experience with. Please go back, reread, and see if it makes more sense now with that added explanation.
 
I actually haven't done what you said, as ds1 wasn't in daycare. I couldn't afford it, and made other arrangements for him. In any case, I wasn't offended on a personal level. I was, and am, disgusted that you basically said, "you can't say that you made the best choice for your family, unless you've tried everything". People, including moms, have every right to believe, and say, that they've made the right choice for their own families.

And nowhere did I say or imply that SAHMs are obnoxious.
 
I didn't exactly say you did, although I can see how you got that impression. Your entire post was pretty much about how SAHMs say really awful, hurtful things to WOHMs, but the things that WOHMs say to SAHMs aren't so bad. That carries a strong vibe of "SAHMs are so obnoxious/insulting/mean/whatever to WOHMs". Trust me, it goes both ways.

I was trying to make two points- one- that saying or implying that a mother is not really a mother because she's not the sole provider all the time hits a very deep nerve for most people, which is why it seems easy to insult a WOHM.
 
It's easy to insult a SAHM, too. Do you have any idea how long the "sitting the couch eating bonbons" thing has been floating around? Do you have any idea how many SAHMs get flack from WOHMs, because "if I can keep my house clean and work all day, she should be able to since she's there", etc? And, the number of just generally condescending, dismissive comments aimed at SAHMs from WOHMs is insulting, too (multiple variants on "you're wasting your brain/education", "I'd go mad doing nothing but changing diapers and washing dishes", etc.). They hit a deep nerve. You basically said that only the insults aimed at WOHMs hit a deep nerve, or imply that the mom in question isn't doing right by her kids. The insults thrown at SAHMs imply the same things.
 
And two- that it does bother me, personally, when a person slams a choice that they actually know nothing about. I used the word "fears" because that is how I've heard it mentioned, on Mothering and IRL, by quite a few moms who are agonizing over what to do when their family's financial needs aren't being met, so they're going to have to work, but what to do with the kids?? Maybe you don't now and never did have a fear surrounding daycare, but a lot of people do. Hell, I did before I experienced it.
 
I'm sure some people do have fears about daycare. (And, some people don't, and then have bad experiences, and some people just have it go well all along and everything in between). But, I've seen this a couple of times around here in the last couple of weeks. This whole "if you make X decision, it must be because you fear Y decision". It's condescending, and makes a lot of assumptions about other people's motives. People make decisions for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with fear. (Personally, I'm homeschooling, partly out of fear, but I'm not SAHMing from fear at all.)

The angry tone of your message really put me off, btw. I don't think there was any need for that.
 
The "need" for that is that your post, especially the sentence I bolded, made me angry. The Mommy Wars turn my stomach. It's bad enough that people get bent out of shape and start in with "you're insulting me, because you made a different choice than I did, and think it's best for your family". But, when people start saying "you can't even say this is best for your family, because you haven't tried the alternatives", it's going over the top. My choice to stay home, and my belief that it's best for my kids (and, quite honestly, ds1 did just fine, for the most part, with me at work...but dd1 and ds2 are very different people than ds1 was/is) is about me and my family, and I have every right to say "this is best for me and my family/kids".  It's not about you. It's not about your family. So, why do you even care if I say "I'm home with my kids, because that's best for them."?

 


 

post #206 of 289

ya'll... don't feed the trolls!  the ones being obnoxious with a post count of 6.  come on...  

and.. troll.  your classism and judgmental tone are not welcome here.

post #207 of 289
No, you never said that you were talking about people who "slammed" a choice. You said that people who were saying "I know what is best for my child" shouldnt say that until they have tried it. And what is your idea of "slammed?" Saying something like, "I dont want my kid to go to daycare, thats why I SAH." SLAM.
post #208 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

ya'll... don't feed the trolls!  the ones being obnoxious with a post count of 6.  come on...  

and.. troll.  your classism and judgmental tone are not welcome here.


Seriously. Money doesnt solve everyone's problems. Some of us didnt intend to make tons of money before we had kids. Good for you for being able to be financially stable at 26. Personally, Im glad that I spent the time in my early twenties learning stuff and having life experience that I feel will be an asset to parenting my children. Id rather share stories of living in communal houses, traveling the country, and working on projects that I truly believed in than my experience working a job so that I could save money enough money to have a baby. Just my personal opinion, I know financial security is more important to lots of people than it is to me.

Sorry for feeding Hildare. I just cant help myself sometimes. I have stopped myself from commenting on this thread for days, but the past two pages are just infuriating.
post #209 of 289

You know what's really fun...when you work real hard to be a stay at home mom by saving money on breast feeding, cloth diapering, feeding your kids home made food, hang drying laundry, and then your kids start helping you!  My little guy helped me shuck corn, then took the husks to the composts yesterday!  As a FTM (full time mom), I just may be out of a job soon!  Just kidding, I'll pick up more night shifts (I'm only working one night a week as a wohp ((work outside home person)) and that's my 'non-mom' time).

post #210 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

ya'll... don't feed the trolls!  the ones being obnoxious with a post count of 6.  come on...  

and.. troll.  your classism and judgmental tone are not welcome here.



But!  But!  Someone on the internet is Wrong!  WRONG!  WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fencing.gif hammer.gif soapbox.gif

 

*ahem*  Yeah... you're right... do I really haaaaaaaaaaaaaave to be a grown up though?  It's kinda boring.

post #211 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

I don't think anyone is ever perfectly prepared for having children, but it's nice to think about being somewhat prepared for a child. 



I did prepare for having a child. I made sure that we had savings, and were well into a mortgage, and stable. And I also made sure I have a career that I love, that would support us if necessary (albeit it would be difficult, even with the insurance), and that I was a well-rounded, happy human being.

 

And guess what? That means I enjoy working - and I love the gift of the preschool community I can afford to give my kids. namaste.gif

post #212 of 289
Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

 

I think it's important to be financially, emotionally and relationship secure before having kids.  If you can't afford to stay with them the better part of the day then don't get pregnant. 

 

Wow. How's the view from that high horse? There are several things that jump out at me here:

 

First - I'm 43. There are a lot of people in my grad class who felt like you, and they waited. And, several of them have one child, and aren't having anymore, because they feel that it's "too late". A not insignificant number of them aren't having any, because they've run into infertility issues (and, yes - the rates are higher than the average, and I do think it's an age issue - not every woman is going to lose her fertility as she ages, but it does happen). I suspect they're really wishing they hadn't waited to be "secure".

 

Second - I was "relationship secure" and emotionally secure with my ex. We'd been together for eight years before we had ds1. It was an absolute disaster, and once the honeymoon period of "our baby is so perfect" was over, my ex was a shambles as a father. I stuck it out until ds1 was seven. It cost me a small fortune (as my ex financially sabotaged me in multiple ways), negatively impacted my health, etc. OTOH, I met dh online. He visited me every couple months for a year, then moved in. We got married the following year, and pregnant with dd1 at the same time (waited for my divorce to finalize). He wasn't legally able to work in Canada yet. I went on maternity leave and had very little money coming in for the first year of dd1's life. DH is a fabulous father, and our kids are well provided for, and I'm able to stay home with them...but none of those things were true when dd1 was first born. My ex and I planned that I'd stay home with ds1, but I ended up being the "breadwinner". That's all relationship and finance related. As for "emotioanlly secure"? I was when I married my ex. After years of his emotional abuse, plus years of infertility and three miscarriages, and a whole lot of c-section related birth trauma, I wasn't "emotionally secure" when I had dd1, and even less so with ds2 and dd2. Things change, and being "secure" isn't as static as people like to believe. (How many "secure" retirements have gone south in the last 10-12 years, because of external economic conditions?)

 

Third - A whole lot of really good moms can't afford to stay home with their kids. I live in a townhouse complex where about half of the moms are SAHMs. The other half are WOHMs. And, those WOHMs play with their kids, take them camping, cook them meals, throw them birthday parties, hug them when they fall down, help them with homework, etc. etc. etc. To suggest that those loving, wonderful mothers should have never had children, just because they have to (or choose to) go to work outside the home is arrogant, elitist and incredibly insulting.

 

Fourth - A whole lot of families can't afford to have a parent stay home. I'm not just talking about North America, but in lots of places. Are you seriously suggesting that only the financially well off should reproduce? Really? I can see a whole lot of population problems arising from that, when we ended up with a huge aging population and almost no young people to care for them, or keep the wheels turning. I suspect we'd end up with a lot less than ZPG, and it would be a pretty ugly demographic shift. Nauseating.

 

 

Well, I've now seen two amazingly obnoxious comments on the WOHM/SAHM thing in this thread. I do have to give it to the WOHMs. As much as the one aimed at SAHMs pissed me off, this one takes the cake. Unreal. It's not hard to see why the Mommy Wars won't die.
 

 

post #213 of 289

I only see the mommy wars on the MDC (the only parenting board I really frequent).

People never act like this in my real life.

And if I was as judgmental as people on here can be, I would really be missing out on some great friendships in life.

 

Oh, my son is in elementary school now. Does that mean someone else is raising my kid and I'm not immersing myself in being a mother?

 

 

Some of those mommy war comments are so predictable they've become incredibly tiresome and boring.

 

 

 

post #214 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

If you don't want a baby don't have intercourse, if you get raped, take the morning after pill.



Wow. I thought I'd seen the most obnoxious post yet, and you turned around and topped it in moments! In case you're interested (you're probably not, because obviously your opinions are the only ones that count), a fair number of women have philosophical, moral and ethical objectsion to taking the morning after pill. For any number of reasons, I would not terminate a pregnancy in any way, under any circumstances (and, yes - I'm pro-choice). There are many other women who feel the same way. And, if that's your answer to other women not being as awesome mothers as you, I just...you know...this doesn't happen often, but words fail me.

 

I hope you're a troll.

post #215 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post


As I mentioned, I do try real hard to be a perfect mom, and I think it makes it all that much more fun when you let things slide for a treat, like letting them roast marsh mellows, have a freezie, ice-cream, a glass of cow milk, or watch Cars movie, it's just so mundane if they get to do that all the time!  smile.gif

 

For what it's worth, my advice after 18 years of parenting, with four kids of very differing temperaments...stop trying. You can't be a "perfect" mom, because that would mean being a perfect human being, and there's no such animal.
 

 

post #216 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

Met my dh when I had just turned 20, became good friends, lived with him a year later. We had sex after living together 9 months, used a condom the whole time, the condom broke once so I took the morning after pill.  I saved up $10,000.00, we got married, together saving $2000.00 a month, I used the rhythm method, got pregnant for my 26th birthday, loved my pregnancy but didn't prepare for a birth defect (as I didn't do anything in my pregnancy to cause it), dealt with the struggles, saved up $40,000.00 to buy a house to fit a second child because we decided we wanted one maybe two more, bought our dream house, had a perfect home birth to another perfect boy, dh decided two was enough, he got snipped, and that's about it.  I'm very glad I've waited and prepared because having a child with extra needs does put a strain on things, I suppose that's why I may come across as preachy.

 

You know...when some people experience something like a birth defect in their child, they're actually humbled by the experience. And, the fact that you can even say "wasn't prepared for a birth defect (as I didn't do anything in my pregnancy to cause it)" tells me that you live in la-la land. Seriously? You thought you had total control over whether or not your child had a birth defect? To take your arrogant assertions about having to "secure" to have a child to their logical conclusion - nobody should get pregnant, unless they're "secure" enough to cope with the worst possible birth outcomes, in terms of special needs. Because, any woman can have a baby with unexpected special needs, medical conditions, etc.

 

This wasn't necessarily your most offensive post, but it's definitely the most disturbing. I think you have control issues.

post #217 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post

ya'll... don't feed the trolls!  the ones being obnoxious with a post count of 6.  come on...  

and.. troll.  your classism and judgmental tone are not welcome here.



*sigh*
I know. And, I really hope you're right. I've met people with almost this much attitude in real life, though, so I'm afraid she may be for real...

post #218 of 289

It's fun to have fun! ROTFLMAO.gif I'm just insecure and in need of validationblush.gif, plus, my little one is sick so he's nursing a lotbfolderchild.gif and that means computer time for mommythumbsup.gifI couldn't imagine having a sick 2 year old and sending them to daycaregreensad.gif or taking time off work to be with the little one...blame it on being a bored house wifeSheepish.gif...what's everyone else's excuse?  namaste.gif  Fun emoticons!

post #219 of 289
People don't send sick kids to daycare. Daycares have rules against that.

And I have heard anti-SAHM stuff IRL, to whoever said they only hear it here. I'm betting WOHMs hear anti-WOHM stuff IRL too.
post #220 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

You know what's really fun...when you work real hard to be a stay at home mom by saving money on breast feeding, cloth diapering, feeding your kids home made food, hang drying laundry, and then your kids start helping you!  My little guy helped me shuck corn, then took the husks to the composts yesterday!  As a FTM (full time mom), I just may be out of a job soon!  Just kidding, I'll pick up more night shifts (I'm only working one night a week as a wohp ((work outside home person)) and that's my 'non-mom' time).


Oh my gosh, my kid helped me shuck corn the other day too!  Well we fed the husks to the cows, but oh well.  Maybe I can be as a good of a mom as you are as soon as I quit my job.  Oh wait, probably not since I wouldn't be able to feed or shelter my kids if I did.

 

The part I bolded is a phrase I absolutely hate.  I don't care you stay home with your kids, you're not more a mom than anyone else.
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ Lang View Post

It's fun to have fun! ROTFLMAO.gif I'm just insecure and in need of validationblush.gif, plus, my little one is sick so he's nursing a lotbfolderchild.gif and that means computer time for mommythumbsup.gifI couldn't imagine having a sick 2 year old and sending them to daycaregreensad.gif or taking time off work to be with the little one...blame it on being a bored house wifeSheepish.gif...what's everyone else's excuse?  namaste.gif  Fun emoticons!



I assume you aren't a troll if you've been a member since 2009, but this is a hell of a way to start posting.

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