Is it dangerous to skip the MMR and Chickenpox vaccine?

[JFTB1177]

My oldest DS (5) is fully vaxed. We did selective/delay with DS2 (2 1/2). I've been putting off the MMR and Chickenpox vaccines (thankfully our ped is cool with doing whatever we want) with him. He just had his 2-year appt (he is almost 2 1/2) and we skipped them again. Something in my gut just told me to skip those, although he did get a HIB and Prevnar he was missing (I felt ok about those). He (DS2) has been showing some signs that he could be on the Spectrum... my ped didn't seem worried about his behaviors but I'm still not so sure. Anyway, I know the MMR has been proven to not be associated with autism but I just don't feel comfortable with giving him a live virus vaccine right now. On the flip side, I AM scared he'll get measles, mumps (worried about sterility), or chickenpox... worried for him, and our new baby.

I know there are opinions on both sides about this, but I need to hear some thoughts... is it dangerous to skip these vaccines? I had the Pox as a kid and remember it being miserable and don't want my son(s) to get it, but I also remember it being something that all of us kids just got and recovered from just fine (I am 33, so this was back in the early 1980s). Is Measles something to fear? What about my 4-month-old?

I appreciate any and all responses! :)

[Marnica]

Well in the interest of full disclosure I don't vax at all - but you said you wanted any and all replies so here goes.

Whether you feel it is dangerous to skip the MMR and CP vaccine all depends on how you feel about those particular diseases. I think a vaccine for CP is ridiculous personally and even if I did vax - I would never do this one. For the record I had CP as an adult (when it is supposed to be DEADLY) and Im still here :) Yes CP can be unpleasant, but a lifetime of immunity would be a great trade off wouldn't it? Vaccine damage and reactions can be unpleasant too.

As for MMR well, IF the measles vaccine was still offered as a single vaccine I always said I would at least consider it, but it isn't and therefore well I don't consdier the MMR. I would not touch the MMR if you paid me a milllion dollars to get it. I am not concerned about rubella or mumps (seriously the risk of sterility in mumps is miniscule) and measles while yes it does concern me on some days - (like the days I let the fear mongering bullcrap get to me), Most days I call my mother and ask her about when she had it and every other child she knew had it and I watch the brady bunch clip and remind myself that in the VAST majority of cases measles are not dangerous and 40 years ago it was considered a mild inconvenience for most kids.

I won't really get into your statement: "MMR has been proven to not be associated with autism"

because I don't agree with it. It has not PROVEN to not be associated with autism. A series of seriously flawed studies found no causal relationship. I'm not inviting debate from others about this either as it has been hashed out here many times before. Im just offering an opinion.

If my child was showing signs of being on the spectrum that I was concerned about (regardless whether the doc was concerned or not)- vaccinating him would be the last thing I would do.

Edited by Marnica - 6/27/11 at 8:58am

[JFTB1177]

Thank you so much for replying!! Actually what you said was exactly the reassurance I needed... it helps to hear from others that these diseases aren't as dreadful as they are made out to be!

[ammiga]

The Brady Bunch episode always puts measles into perspective for me.

I had CP. One day my sister broke out in pox. Next thing I knew, my mom threwus into the tub together. I was itchy and I got over it.

We used to see a normal ped. I was lectured about all the scary VADs and every scare tactic was used. If dd got mumps she could be hospitalized, wind up deaf, on and on. Then I came in with dd because her lower jaw and neck were swollen. The ped diagnosed her with mumps, told us to stay home for ten days from onset of swelling, and sent us home. For how insanely worried about dd catching mumps when I questioned the vax, he didn't care AT ALL once he diagnosed her with them. No list of complications to watch for, no special treatment, nothing. Just told to keep her home for 10 days.

[Lauren31]

Originally Posted by ammiga 

The Brady Bunch episode always puts measles into perspective for me.

That was mumps. Not measles. Measles has much worse complications then the mumps.
 

[nettlesoup]

I would never use the chickenpox vaccine. Over here we aren't offered it anyway, and we manage just fine. My sister's son got the vaccine and he had horrible reactions to it, which I don't think is unusual for that particular vaccine. I personally did choose to go for the MMR though.

[MyBoysBlue]

Even when I was still vaccinating my first son on schedule and not questioning vaccines at all I refused the Chicken pox vaccine.
 

Originally Posted by Lauren31 

That was mumps. Not measles. Measles has much worse complications then the mumps.
 

Actually it is the measles that the Brady Bunch episode is about. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk29607gSWA

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by Lauren31 

That was mumps. Not measles. Measles has much worse complications then the mumps.
 

Nope, measles. And measles is a normal childhood disease, just like mumps and chicken pox. Of course there are worst case scenarios, just like for the common cold. But, overall, a normal childhood disease.

[Lauren31]

oh I was thinking of the episode where Bobby thought he caught the mumps from his girlfriend, whoops. Either way you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to use an old sit-com to support your beliefs.  I chose not to vaccinate for CP but MMR is something different in my opinion.

[ChristyMarie]

Bolding mine:

Originally Posted by ammiga 

The Brady Bunch episode always puts measles into perspective for me.

I had CP. One day my sister broke out in pox. Next thing I knew, my mom threwus into the tub together. I was itchy and I got over it.

We used to see a normal ped. I was lectured about all the scary VADs and every scare tactic was used. If dd got mumps she could be hospitalized, wind up deaf, on and on. Then I came in with dd because her lower jaw and neck were swollen. The ped diagnosed her with mumps, told us to stay home for ten days from onset of swelling, and sent us home. For how insanely worried about dd catching mumps when I questioned the vax, he didn't care AT ALL once he diagnosed her with them. No list of complications to watch for, no special treatment, nothing. Just told to keep her home for 10 days.

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Well in the interest of full disclosure I don't vax at all - but you said you wanted any and all replies so here goes.

Whether you feel it is dangerous to skip the MMR and CP vaccine all depends on how you feel about those particular diseases. I think a vaccine for CP is ridiculous personally and even if I did vax - I would never do this one. For the record I had CP as an adult (when it is supposed to be DEADLY) and Im still here :) Yes CP can be unpleasant, but a lifetime of immunity would be a great trade off wouldn't it? Vaccine damage and reactions can be unpleasant too.

As for MMR well, IF the measles vaccine was still offered as a single vaccine I always said I would at least consider it, but it isn't and therefore well I don't consdier the MMR. I would not touch the MMR if you paid me a milllion dollars to get it. I am not concerned about rubella or mumps (seriously the risk of sterility in mumps is miniscule) and measles while yes it does concern me on some days - (like the days I let the fear mongering bullcrap get to me), Most days I call my mother and ask her about when she had it and every other child she knew had it and I watch the brady bunch clip and remind myself that in the VAST majority of cases measles are not dangerous and 40 years ago it was considered a mild inconvenience for most kids.

I won't really get into your statement: "MMR has been proven to not be associated with autism"

because I don't agree with it. It has not PROVEN to not be associated with autism. A series of seriously flawed studies found no causal relationship. I'm not inviting debate from others about this either as it has been hashed out here many times before. Im just offering an opinion.

If my child was showing signs of being on the spectrum that I was concerned about (regardless whether the doc was concerned or not)- vaccinating him would be the last thing I would do.

No matter where you stand on the vaccination issue I don't think any of us should ever use a TV sitcom as a true example of how a disease manifests and what the complications may or may not be.

[MyBoysBlue]

It's only an example on how our perception of measles has changed.  Just like how CP, when I was a child, was seen as non threatening and is now touted by many as a life threatening disease to be avoided at all cost. Measles was once see as a topic of comedy.

[ChristyMarie]

Originally Posted by JFTB1177 

.... mumps (worried about sterility),....

FYI, mumps can affect fertility if contracted at or after puberty.  I was also concerned about the MMR and delayed the initial dose until my son was 4.

http://www.uihealthcare.com/topics/medicaldepartments/urology/maleinfertility/index.html

http://www.bupa.co.nz/fact_sheets/Factsheet.aspx?fs=cnt_mumps.html

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by ChristyMarie 

No matter where you stand on the vaccination issue I don't think any of us should ever use a TV sitcom as a true example of how a disease manifests and what the complications may or may not be.

The point is that if measles is such a horrible, deadly disease it most certainly would not have been portrayed on the Brady Bunch at all.  It's nowhere near as deadly as people are led to believe and putting things into perspective does help.  I'm glad there is that episode to look back on as a reminder. 

[Bokonon]

Remember the "Friends" episode where Phoebe got chicken pox and gave it to her boyfriend, played by Charlie Sheen?  That was as recent as the mid-90s, and they were adults who weren't concerned about the complications (though the friends duct-taped oven mitts on Phoebe's hands so she wouldn't scratch, LOL, so she and Charlie Sheen rubbed against each other to soothe the itch).

[Alenushka]

The link between MMR adn autism has been fulyl discredited. The original staudy was a joke and a fraud.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

The link between MMR adn autism has been fulyl discredited. The original staudy was a joke and a fraud.

You do realize there have been dozens of patients who the vaccine compensation courts have awarded damages to when their autism diagnoses were considered triggered by vaccines, yes?  The Wakefield study was not the only existing link.

[Alenushka]

acute brain damage is not the same as autism.

And....where is logiv. Vaccination rates are falling. More and more parents are AP, thermosaul ahs been removed and yet autism cases are going up and up.  There none vaxed children who have autistm.

It is alway easier to accept some outside sourse  as a faulty party than one own genes.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

acute brain damage is not the same as autism.

And....where is logiv. Vaccination rates are falling. More and more parents are AP, thermosaul ahs been removed and yet autism cases are going up and up.  There none vaxed children who have autistm.

It is alway easier to accept some outside sourse  as a faulty party than one own genes.

This has been covered many, many times on MDC, and there is really no sense rehashing it in this thread.

[umsami]

I always think that you should trust your gut.  I do not believe that the MMR is an evil vaccine--or that it causes autism.  However, I do believe that if there's something telling you to hold off, then you need to honor that.

A few things...

Do you have any immunocompromized family members? Anybody going through chemo, have HIV, etc.? If so, I'd lean towards vaccinating.

What are the vax rates in your area? The more people who are not vaxing, the less heard immunity.  

How old is your pediatrician? This may seem weird, but if I was going to deal with the possibility of bringing some of these diseases into my home, I'd want an older pediatrician who had actually dealt/seen them before.  Newer peds just don't have the experience. (my two cents).  My Dad and Uncle were both physicians back before those vaxes existed.  They could diagnose them blindfolded.  MMR was first introduced back in 1971--so most physicians these days do not have experience diagnosing these diseases.  

Anyway, as you remember, chicken pox is not that bad.  In general, complications are rare--and the actual disease seems to give better immunity than the vax.   My issues with measles is how contagious it is... 90%.  So with a young baby in the house, I would not want to bring that into the mix (but I wouldn't want to have any diseases in the mix).  German measles too... I would want immunization at some point--but more of a precaution for pregnant women your son might come into contact with.  Mumps--not a big deal as a kid, but the risk of infertility for men is for, in general, teenage and adult men.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd honor my gut--but plan to revisit in 1-2 years and see how I felt then.  

[mum2chelly]

Remember if you get chicken Pox there is no such thing as immunity... most people only get it once but its more common than you think about people getting it twice. I have had it twice growing up Also if you have ever seen the victims with scars all over their body from chicken pox it will definitely put getting the vaccination a must.

Vaccinations are there to protect people but like everything in life there are risks. That being said every family has too make there own decision on what is right for them.