Philomom, you are correct that the medical reasons for performing circumcision are spotty at best. And, if I understand you correctly, you are not Jewish, therefore are not required to circumcise your children, EVEN IF their father was raised Reform Jewish. Furthermore, you have made an active decision to not raise your children Jewish but instead as agnostics (which, actually doesn't address the issue of Judaism as something beyond a religion, which it is. It's an ethnicity, it's a culture, language, race, religion, Tribe, etc...) Again, I have no problem with this because Halachic Judaism (Jewish Law) has no problem with this, as your children are not Jewish. They may have a Jewish father, but they are not Jews and therefore, unless they choose this life for themselves as adults or you choose this life for yourself by converting yourself and them and then practicing Judaism, there is no need for any argument or discussion. Circumcision, for you, is a matter of the medical and not the religious (unless you are are one of the certain branches of Muslim faith that also requires circumcision, which you've already stated that you are not), in which case I would tend to agree with you. THere is no medical reason to do this. And all sorts of reasons (medical and otherwise) against doing this, so your choice seems like a good, compassionate, well-informed and sound one. I'm sorry your in-laws were not more supportive. In laws can be very VERY difficult (I speak with empathy. :) )
Originally Posted by philomom
Not to completely de-rail this thread but you won't find any medical organization out there that recommends circ... except for the CDC. The three African studies they base their stance on are flawed. The AMA, the AAP and many others say no to this cosmetic surgery.
My husband was raised Reform Jewish and we are raising our kids agnostic. My husband was happy to leave his son intact, even if my in-laws weren't. And as far as the natural childbirth angle.. why avoid drugs and eat healthy for nine months, have a natural drug free birth and plan to breastfeed.. if the first thing you do to the innocent is spill his blood? Makes no sense whatsoever. We are meant as mothers, to protect our children from harm and circumcision causes harm.
Irothnwu, You are correct that this comment about spilling innocent blood is completely out of line on a Jewish Thread. You are also correct that more blood is taken from a newborn in blood testing than in a Jewish circumcision. You are also correct that a circumcision performed on the 8th day is quite a different matter than many ric (routine infant circs) performed within the first 3 days in a hospital. It is different from a Vit K standpoint (clotting factor) and health stand point. Also they are performed entirely differently. All correct. You are also correct that this anti-ric talk has no place here because there is no conversation taking place about RIC on this thread. This is a religious circumcision, which is another matter entirely.
Originally Posted by lrothnwu
"If the first thing you do to the innocent is spill his blood?" Noo, you're not derailing the thread at all. I guess you must be opposed to all blood testing on your children, then, because they take far more blood from a child than a circumcision, which is done after eight days in Jewish tradition, by the way. Have you ever seen a circumcision done? It's not "cosmetic" and it's not bloody.
And your judgmental attitude is not appreciated. This is an individual decision for every family, and I'd expect more respect on this site and this thread, in particular.
Au Contrare, Philomom...those who have been around these parts (Mothering) for a very long time know quite well that while MDC is AGAINST RIC...there has been extreme measures taken to avoid taking a position against religious circumcision. The Case Against Circumcision is SPECIFICALLY for RIC and it is forbidden to attack people for circumcision based on religious belief.
Many moms DO leave their sons intact here at MDC. This is wonderful and I support it. I'm a big lactivist. I do not believe in RIC for all of the reasons on that forum and more and I support you and your decision and your cause for likely all of the same reasons...that being said, and I realize that this is a very VERY difficult point to understand, but religious circumcision is NOT the same thing as RIC. Not in the slightest. Though it seems that it should be, since both involve cutting babies, both involve all of the issues that that brings...it is still not the same thing.
Your position, while absolutely wonderful regarding RIC and your own decision not to RIC your own son, is completely invalid and inappropriate on a thread of this nature. There is no place for it here and there is no parellel. If you would like to change mothering's rules regarding their policy on religious circumcision, I recommend that you write to them or perhaps begin a petition to try and make RIC and religious circumcision one and the same on the boards. I should mention that I would be absolutely against that, of course, but you are free to proceed as you see fit.
In the meanwhile, I WILL NOT tolerate and (neither will Mothering) attacks on religious circumsicion. It violates the rules here.
Originally Posted by philomom
I see you are new here.. welcome to MDC. That said, we have strong forum called The Case Against Circumcision. Many moms here leave their sons intact!