Friend that Vax! Ugh! - Page 2

[Bokonon]

To the OP: your friends might just be sharing relevant information about their lives with you instead of deliberately trying to "annoy" you.  I don't judge my friends for their choices and hope they don't judge me for mine.  We all come to different decisions about our children even when presented with the same information.

Now, if a friend belittled me for having different vaccination philosophies than they do, I would be irritated and offended.  But if they were simply sharing goings on about their day without making judgments about *my* choices being different, I would just try to offer sympathy and not engage in a debate whatsoever.  I don't get annoyed when people make different choices than I do and tell me about them.

[BenimBebek]

first of all, why are you in the non-vaxing forums... 

second, what i meant was that high pitched screaming is a common symptom of encephalopathy. not that encephalopathy is a common occurrence.

furthermore, you nor anyone else has any idea what the long term effects are of vaccines, because they are never studied.  you have no idea if whats happening in those "three fussy days" is causing permanent damage to some portion of the childs brain or immune system.  you also have no idea what the cumulative effects are of multiple rounds.

vaccine reactions, according to the FDA, are reported to VAERS anywhere from 1-10% of the time.  Just take one mandatory vaccine for US kid.  Say DTAP and figure out what the actual risk of reaction is, then compare it to the risk of getting the illness.  Kids in America have an incredibly higher chance of having a "serious adverse reaction" to a vaccine than getting any of the diseases we "protect" against.  

[Imakcerka]

OP I think maybe they are trying to get at you.  My mom does the same thing.  But heres the dumb part, she has guillian berre (SP?)  If she gets a vaccination and she does she will temporarily go out of remission due to the strain on her body.  Every time.  EVERY SINGLE TIME!  So she'll complain to me about her discomfort and the numbing in her back (most affected area)  and all I say is "was that really a good idea?" 

I'm not here to debate anything.  I do think it's important to point out that there are numerous people with auto immune diseases... do you know what the flu shot can do to you if you have an auto immune disease?  Also most people with auto immune diseases don't know they have them until ... they have a reaction. 

[lokidoki]

I have a friend who was pregnant about 2 years ago. She emailed me and started asking all kinds of questions about having a baby, etc. I told her that my only recommendation was to read read read read read until her eyes were red so that she could make an informed decision regarding vaccines (regardless of whether or not she decided to vax). She returned later complaining she felt "so sick and her arm was hurting so badly" because she had gotten the H1N1 vax WHILE PREGNANT. Told me that she knew I disagreed but her doctor told her that 1 in 100 pregnant women who contracted H1N1 were dying...AND SHE BELIEVED HIM! The statistic she was repeating was actually about 1 in 100 pregnant women who contracted H1N1 and were sick enough to land themselves in ICU were dying...A FAR CRY from 1 in 100 pregnant women who contracted H1N1. I pointed out the stastical error and linked her to the story ~ and told her to consider this her lesson on how doctors will misinform (purposely or not). She proceeded to fully vax her son ~ again, her choice ~ and now she is complaining because he has literally had ear infection after ear infection since he was born ~ just had tubes put in and he STILL is having ear infections!!!

[Imakcerka]

Why complain?  Especially to the person that told you to be informed.  I wouldn't tell someone not to vaccinate.  I would tell them to know what they are doing with their children.  Some people spend so much time worrying if a TV show is too violent yet not bat an eye at a vaccination.  "my doctor told me too..."  Ok fine, he told you to.  Did you look into it more just to make sure you're aware?  "he's a doctor!  he knows what he's talking about!"

Again fine!  Then complain to the guy that knows what he's talking about! 

[japonica]

Originally Posted by BenimBebek 

So, I came out of the non-vax closet about 2 years ago.  Its was my dirty secret and it just got to be too much.  Plus, I didn't want people to think I was ashamed of my choice.  Definitely not.  But EVER SINCE my husband and I have found that people who do vax are CONSTANTLY telling us things like this:

"Oh we just took our baby to their first check up and they got all their vaxes."

"Our baby has been screaming non-stop since his vaccines.  The doctor said it was normal."

"I just got the typhoid shot and my arm is killing me."

Etc. Etc. Etc.  What do they want to hear from us????  How do you guys handle annoying friends like this?  Are they trying to ask us WHY we dont vaccinate, just do they can convince themselves of why they should?  Or are they really concerned and looking for advice.

My best friend who is almost done pharmacy school keeps getting vaccines and doesnt bother READING about them.  She knows how important this issue is for me and I feel like she is taunting me almost with her, "I just got this vaccine and Im having ___ reaction."  First it was the flu shot... she got a terrible infection for months afterward (much worse than the flu) and swore she would never get that vax again.  Now its the stupid typhoid fever vaccine ("because Im going to Mexico and its recommended, but I said no to the Hep A vaccine, thats a self-limiting illness anyways and doesnt even lead to Hep.  I dont know why theres a vaccine for it.") and then she had a reaction where her whole arm is sore and shes complaining to me. 

I sent her the link to the package insert, as well as VAERS results showing the risks of the vaccine.  Then a link to the FDA stating that VAERS probably only has 1-10% of the actual events being reported to it.  Its really hilarious that there is a vaccine.  The risks of the vaccine FAR outweigh the minute chance of actually getting typhoid fever.  Its just hilarious.  And no one bothers looking into this stuff.  Its terrifying.  I mean, shes going to have an f-ing PharmD soon and she doesn't even know how to look this stuff up IN ADVANCE?

How do you guys handle this?  Its incredibly annoying!!!  It makes me want to have no friends that vax!!  Too bad I dont know anyone who doesnt!!  

I'm almost seven years into this, so I've mellowed somewhat. In the beginning, I was all up for debate and discussion about why people (ie. friends, relatives) made the choices they did.

Now, it's basically "to each, her own." I've found that it's just better to say, "I'd rather not discuss this" when asked point blank and I let bait-type comments ("My doctor said it's going to be the worst year ever for flu," "My daughter had a fever for five days after her MMR," etc.) pass without comment. 

I even have an online friend who regularly posts things like "anti-vax myths busted with science!" and "why all parents and carers should get a pertussis booster," on her social networking page. I never bite. No, thanks. 

Honestly, it depends on how close we are as friends. I have good friends who have made very different choices to what I have--vaxing, circing, you name it. These topics are off-limits because  to discuss them would just jeopardize the friendship. On the other hand if they are just acquaintances or family friends etc., I'd have to ask myself why I want to be around them if they keep pestering me about my parenting. It's not my job to educate the world, change peoples' mind, whatever. If someone comes to me in good faith asking for a different perspective and wants to be pointed in the direction of some info, I'll oblige. But if it's just pot-stirring and challenging, well, I have better things to do with my time.

And I also have about three or four friends IRL who do not vax and about a half dozen online buddies as well, so I don't feel frustrated or isolated.

[BenimBebek]

Originally Posted by japonica 

Now, it's basically "to each, her own." I've found that it's just better to say, "I'd rather not discuss this" when asked point blank and I let bait-type comments ("My doctor said it's going to be the worst year ever for flu," "My daughter had a fever for five days after her MMR," etc.) pass without comment. 

Yeah this is how I am.  Its the only way I have found to survive.  Im fb friends with so many MDs now that all my HS friends are finishing the graduate education.  So I see tons of pro-vax stuff.  I will post some articles if they are from "main stream" sources and pose questions about their accuracy.  Sometimes I will post a link to a journal article.  Just so people see there are two sides and they have options.  But I have yet to try and convince someone.  If asked why, I now just say the same thing every time, "I heard there were some questionable ingredients in them.  So, I spent 80 hours a week for a year researching this and another 2 years reading every night at least one peer-review journal article.  I had unrestricted access to pubmed and almost all its catalougued journals.  I have personally reviewed every single individual disease for the risk rate vs. the risk of the vaccine.  I found every single one to carry a higher risk of what the CDC considers "serious" adverse reactions than the risk of a child in the US has of getting a VPD, let alone being harmed long term by one.  So, if you would like to look at my excel spreadsheets, I'd be happy to share them.  I can tell you, I'm 100% sure I made the right decision."  Usually after that they say sure, and never bring it up again and continue to vaccinate their kids.  

[miriam]

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Edited by miriam - 5/28/12 at 9:21pm

[lovebeingamomma]

can I see your spreadsheets?  I would love to see what you've come up with.
 

Originally Posted by BenimBebek 

Yeah this is how I am.  Its the only way I have found to survive.  Im fb friends with so many MDs now that all my HS friends are finishing the graduate education.  So I see tons of pro-vax stuff.  I will post some articles if they are from "main stream" sources and pose questions about their accuracy.  Sometimes I will post a link to a journal article.  Just so people see there are two sides and they have options.  But I have yet to try and convince someone.  If asked why, I now just say the same thing every time, "I heard there were some questionable ingredients in them.  So, I spent 80 hours a week for a year researching this and another 2 years reading every night at least one peer-review journal article.  I had unrestricted access to pubmed and almost all its catalougued journals.  I have personally reviewed every single individual disease for the risk rate vs. the risk of the vaccine.  I found every single one to carry a higher risk of what the CDC considers "serious" adverse reactions than the risk of a child in the US has of getting a VPD, let alone being harmed long term by one.  So, if you would like to look at my excel spreadsheets, I'd be happy to share them.  I can tell you, I'm 100% sure I made the right decision."  Usually after that they say sure, and never bring it up again and continue to vaccinate their kids.  

[BenimBebek]

Im out of the country and dont have all my research.  a lot is handwritten anyway, but I do have one saved online!  i extracted all data from WHO VPD 2009

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmBuywjpb6NZdGljSlJETWhLSDJ1ODE0ZGl6RlNjb3c&hl=en_US#gid=1