Homebirth: why is it almost the same cost as a hospital? - Page 6

[Jaimee]

Yes, a huge problem in this country!  Largely b/c so many midwives are practicing  illegally b/c our country cannot get it together to legalize midwifery in any sort of uniform way. Highly frustrating.

[sosurreal09]

OK well are you against HB? I wasn't even replying to anything you said I said what I would do b/c I was offended by wee's post essentially bashing HB.

Originally Posted by philomom 



And I would never, ever give birth at home. I've known several women now having had poor outcomes with their home births.

I had glorious, natural childbirths at the hospital with my CNM and if anything had gone wrong... the NICU was mere steps away. And no, I had no interventions of any kind.

[Jane93]

Jaimee --

On the waterbirth point we were discussing -- this may be of interest...

A paper was written about a waterbirth newborn who died of Pseudomonas pneumonia and sepsis as a result of waterbirth in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology:

"It has been postulated that newborns will not breath or swallow while immersed in warm water, and that respiration will only be initiated on exposure to cold air. This has been used to support assertions that drowning and aspiration of water cannot occur with underwater delivery. However, animal studies have demonstrated that this reflex can be over-ridden, and given that respiratory movements occur in utero, it is difficult to see why this process would not continue in a neonate delivered into water. The documentation of cases of near drowning and respiratory distress with apparent aspiration of fluid would also be supportive of the occurrence of breathing under water." .

 

See here: 

http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicmedicine/Abstract/publishahead/Forensic_Issues_in_Cases_of_Water_Birth_Fatalities.99881.aspx 

[sosurreal09]

That is so weird b/c I had *planned* a water birth but once I was fully dilated I started panicking about being in the water so I hopped out and went onto the bed and gave birth there.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

Yes, a huge problem in this country!  Largely b/c so many midwives are practicing  illegally b/c our country cannot get it together to legalize midwifery in any sort of uniform way. Highly frustrating.

Yep. There's a set of direct entry midwives operating in my town right now. They got to be "direct entry" after a few courses and attending 20 births. Just 20!

That is what I like about my CNM. She was a in nursing school for four years and then her midwifery degree is a three years master's degree on top of that. She's very nearly spent as much time in school as any practicing OB. Now I know this doesn't appeal to some of you who hate doctors but I find all that education and training of my caregivers to be very reassuring.


We do need some uniform training for midwives so that ANY midwife a family may choose is fully trained and qualified to help.

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by philomom 



Yep. There's a set of direct entry midwives operating in my town right now. They got to be "direct entry" after a few courses and attending 20 births. Just 20!

That is what I like about my CNM. She was a in nursing school for four years and then her midwifery degree is a three years master's degree on top of that. She's very nearly spent as much time in school as any practicing OB. Now I know this doesn't appeal to some of you who hate doctors but I find all that education and training of my caregivers to be very reassuring.


We do need some uniform training for midwives so that ANY midwife a family may choose is fully trained and qualified to help.

Wow!  Only 20... that is nuts to me.  My MW is also a trained ND.  That was what sealed the deal for me. 
 

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

That is so weird b/c I had *planned* a water birth but once I was fully dilated I started panicking about being in the water so I hopped out and went onto the bed and gave birth there.

I am sad to hear about water birth not being positive.  I really thought I did my homework.  I delivered in water and all was great.  Lucky I guess?

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by Jane93 

Jaimee --

On the waterbirth point we were discussing -- this may be of interest...

A paper was written about a waterbirth newborn who died of Pseudomonas pneumonia and sepsis as a result of waterbirth in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology:

"It has been postulated that newborns will not breath or swallow while immersed in warm water, and that respiration will only be initiated on exposure to cold air. This has been used to support assertions that drowning and aspiration of water cannot occur with underwater delivery. However, animal studies have demonstrated that this reflex can be over-ridden, and given that respiratory movements occur in utero, it is difficult to see why this process would not continue in a neonate delivered into water. The documentation of cases of near drowning and respiratory distress with apparent aspiration of fluid would also be supportive of the occurrence of breathing under water." .

 

See here: 

http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicmedicine/Abstract/publishahead/Forensic_Issues_in_Cases_of_Water_Birth_Fatalities.99881.aspx 

I wasn't able to find it...  may just not see it as I am super tired today.  I am now feeling horrible I risked this.  I found our birth to be very positive and my kiddo extremely healthy.  Scary. 

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by goldenwillow 

I am now feeling horrible I risked this.  I found our birth to be very positive and my kiddo extremely healthy.  Scary. 

Well, FWIW I still believe that water birth is safe.  I haven't had the ability to read the article Jane posted to know if there are any other complicating factors involved with that particular death.  But I find it very hard to believe that hospitals would allow water births with all the litigation and cost it would  involve if they were deemed uniformly unsafe. There is one, maybe even two hospitals in just my area that allow water births.  Then there are all the birth centers that allow water births and they face even more legal challenges than hospitals do.  I talked with my mw today about this (and I've spoken with several other mw's as well in the past) and she reiterated what I had already felt about it: that it is safe.  She suggested I search for a Cochran report on it which I will attempt to do when I have a minute.

[Sasha's Mama]

I can't find the article that Jane posted either. Perhaps she'd like to post the title of the article so that people can search for a full-text version.

Honestly, looking at this journal, these case studies are of freak accidents and are certainly not generalizable. This journal contains articles with titles that I don't even want to mention because pregnant women are reading this forum, but it goes to say that we're not using this journal's case studies to scare women from birthing in a hospital because their OB could possibly use a vacuum extractor and cause the death of their baby.

[samstress]

well, i'd like to know what hospital only charges $5000-$7500.  i just received the breakdown of charges for the natural hospital birth of my son. 

the total was $19,089.50.  $4000 for a midwife sounds like a steal.

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

Well, FWIW I still believe that water birth is safe.  I haven't had the ability to read the article Jane posted to know if there are any other complicating factors involved with that particular death.  But I find it very hard to believe that hospitals would allow water births with all the litigation and cost it would  involve if they were deemed uniformly unsafe. There is one, maybe even two hospitals in just my area that allow water births.  Then there are all the birth centers that allow water births and they face even more legal challenges than hospitals do.  I talked with my mw today about this (and I've spoken with several other mw's as well in the past) and she reiterated what I had already felt about it: that it is safe.  She suggested I search for a Cochran report on it which I will attempt to do when I have a minute.

I never thought until these posts... that our water birth was negative.   In my state, water birth in a hosp is a no go....  you can labor but when you are ready to deliver... they pull you out.  I cannot imagine.  YIKES!  I feel and will always advocate a water/home birth.  I suppose that there is always a negative to everything... for reasons that I may never understand.  Ours was so positive I shout it from the roof tops when someone wants to hear it. 

We set up our home for every scenario... I had no idea where I would be most comfortable.  Set up our bed in our bedroom, our futon in our living room and our huge bathroom with our tub.  I ended up wanting the tub. 

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by goldenwillow 

I never thought until these posts... that our water birth was negative.   ....Ours was so positive I shout it from the roof tops when someone wants to hear it. 

I say continue to feel positive about your water birth and continue shouting it from the roof tops!  At some point one of us will find a review of water births and their safety- I'm sure of it.  One incident does not make water birth inherently unsafe.  More information needs to be presented, but not here... b/c we've hijacked the OP's thread! 

[motherhendoula]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

I say continue to feel positive about your water birth and continue shouting it from the roof tops!  At some point one of us will find a review of water births and their safety- I'm sure of it.  One incident does not make water birth inherently unsafe.  More information needs to be presented, but not here... b/c we've hijacked the OP's thread! 

I agree totally with this!  And i wonder ...OP might have HAD that baby by now!!! OP??  is it a boy or a girl?  OP?  Home, hospital or unassisted???   Time to chime back in!

[Jaimee]

If you'd like to continue discussing water birth, I have created a new thread in the Birth and Beyond Forum: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1322632/water-birth-safety.